Kubica'S Form Is Bothering Me...

[KoolMonkey 0]

Something that's been on my mind for a little while. And that is how good Kubeeetza has been going this year. The Renault has been a dog of a car for the past few years, and this year not only does it have a better livery than the putrid ING days, but both Renault drivers are actually going well.

So then that brings the question of what's going on with Alonso. That's the part that bothers me. Mr 6/10 of a second was nowhere to be seen for the past two years in Renault. The car never got any faster, in fact that just stayed stagnant the whole time. Yeah ok he won a race compliments of Piquet Jrs crash, but it was the next race in Japan where the only signifcant thing he'd done in two years took place with a proper race win.

If it's popular opinion (and one I whole hardheartedly disagree with), that Kimi was unmotivated during his last year(s) at Ferrari, then what was Alonso doing for the past two years? Did he help develop the car? Did he show the kind of improvements that Renault and Kubica have shown this year?

I don't want this to be another Alonso is a turd thread, God knows he deserves it, but rather how well Kubica has done. I was never a believer of the pole, but I will certainly eat some humble pie and say he looks to really have the goods.

So what I want to know, and what is puzzling me, is why are Alonso's groupies silent on his results over the past few years, yet are first in line to state as matter of fact Kimi was unmotived and not deserving of a drive?

Alonso hasn't exactly set the world on fire this year either. Borerain was the highlight, but his lows have been entertaining to say the least. I have no doubt Ferrari will implode this year. And it won't be Kimi's fault. Losing Brawn, Todt, Byrne and Schumacher leaves a huge void. In their place you have Domenicali. I'll say it again... Domenicali! Who else does Alonso have to mold his special little tea club around himself. The Italian press never turned on Kimi. He won a WDC, he was always gracious and never a bad sport. The honeymoon period for Alonso is over. The distractions of the Red Bull overtaking crash saga, the will Webber go or stay, will Massa be finally put out of his misery and replaced... it's never looked better for Alonso actually.

[JHS 1]

Alonso 'groupie' here.

First thing first, 'groupie' is a bad word. I'm more a 'fan'.

Anyway. Yes, I agree with you. I personally didn't think that Kubica was as good as he was cracked up to be. All the hype over a driver who'd won one race in a race where Hamilton had taken out (quite possibly) his biggest rival for victory that day (I'm talking about Kimi)?

Yet I have been blown away by his performances, espacially at Monaco. He was supreme there and at Montreal it could be more of the same seeing as that track is where he secured his first victory. Overall, before this year, I'd have rated him solidly as a 5/10, but now I'm more a 8/10.

So there you are, an Alonso FAN admitting this.

Anyway, what relevance has Kubica got to with the Alonso/Kimi argument? I find it a bit silly the talk of "But the Alonso fans haven't praised Kubica!!!!11111 Kimi was therefore better."

You know everyone has their own opinion on each driver? You don't like Alonso, yet you can't argue that he beat Schumacher (statistically the most successful driver in the history of the sport) twice, when Schumi was in his "prime". Why don't you credit him more?

I do think Kubica's performances have been more than note worthy so far this year, but the next bloke might not. We all have our own opinions and it is wrong to attack people over what they do and don't believe.

Anyway, on the Kimi unmotivated thing. As a Kimi criticizer, for me it boils down to this. Ferrari spend a shed load of money signing Kimi, that money I hasten to add, could have been used to retain as I have already said, statistically the most successful driver in the history of the sport. I thought with that in mind, spending that load of money on a driver who at that time had won zero titles that he'd be completely dominant. Yet he won one year and then became preoccupied with WRC. Huge waste of money and the biggest mistake Ferrari made in this decade.

Some things seem to never change. Can the Alonso and Kimi fans just GET ON. Here's an easy way to solve this argument, with a game of my favourite card game, Top Trumps.

Kimi Raikkonen:

Titles: 1

Fernando Alonso:

Titles: 2

In the rules of Top Trumps, the bigger the number, the better. Alonso is therefore the better driver. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

And anyway: Alonso's still in the sport, yet Kimi's in a series hardly anybody cares about. The viewing figures for WRC have been steadily going further and futher down year-on-year.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Something that's been on my mind for a little while. And that is how good Kubeeetza has been going this year. The Renault has been a dog of a car for the past few years, and this year not only does it have a better livery than the putrid ING days, but both Renault drivers are actually going well.

So then that brings the question of what's going on with Alonso. That's the part that bothers me. Mr 6/10 of a second was nowhere to be seen for the past two years in Renault. The car never got any faster, in fact that just stayed stagnant the whole time. Yeah ok he won a race compliments of Piquet Jrs crash, but it was the next race in Japan where the only signifcant thing he'd done in two years took place with a proper race win.

If it's popular opinion (and one I whole hardheartedly disagree with), that Kimi was unmotivated during his last year(s) at Ferrari, then what was Alonso doing for the past two years? Did he help develop the car? Did he show the kind of improvements that Renault and Kubica have shown this year?

I don't want this to be another Alonso is a turd thread, God knows he deserves it, but rather how well Kubica has done. I was never a believer of the pole, but I will certainly eat some humble pie and say he looks to really have the goods.

So what I want to know, and what is puzzling me, is why are Alonso's groupies silent on his results over the past few years, yet are first in line to state as matter of fact Kimi was unmotived and not deserving of a drive?

Alonso hasn't exactly set the world on fire this year either. Borerain was the highlight, but his lows have been entertaining to say the least. I have no doubt Ferrari will implode this year. And it won't be Kimi's fault. Losing Brawn, Todt, Byrne and Schumacher leaves a huge void. In their place you have Domenicali. I'll say it again... Domenicali! Who else does Alonso have to mold his special little tea club around himself. The Italian press never turned on Kimi. He won a WDC, he was always gracious and never a bad sport. The honeymoon period for Alonso is over. The distractions of the Red Bull overtaking crash saga, the will Webber go or stay, will Massa be finally put out of his misery and replaced... it's never looked better for Alonso actually.

I would add that Kimi's admiration and respect for the Ferrari team was well-known, I can imagine beneat that quiet resilience he shown he must have been hugely disappointed when they decided to drop him....

Alonso is another case, the weight of expectation has surely gotten to him, he's living in the shadow of the most pretigous F1 driver ever

[UrKo 0]

Some things seem to never change. Can the Alonso and Kimi fans just GET ON.

I really don't see any reason why would we argue about FA and KR. Sad thing is that Kimi has left F1..he has been fun to watch. like JP.. Kimi on vodka and JP on burgers..a perfect duo.

As for Kubica..he already got one more fan..ME! Hope he can make good result with reno and if he does move to Ferrari, believe it or not, but i would rather see him winning the title and not alonso.

[Kate's Dirty Sister 0]

Firstly, I wrote a boat load about this and my internet connection went down so I can't be bothered typing it all again so in summary:

I always thought Kubica was pretty good so it's no surprise to me that he's super quick.

There are a number of reasons that Renault are performing better this year. Yeah it could be down to Kubica being able to get more out of the car but there has been a lot of changes at Renualt with Flavio and Symonds leaving so the new, fresh ideas might be working, also don't count Alonso out. he must have had a lot of input on this years car throughout last season and it certainly wasn't Piquet or Grosjean who new anything about it, now was it?

If you're asking if I think Kubica is performing better this season than Alonso, then yeah I do. We might get to see both of them at Ferrari next year and (presuming it is a black stallion and not a fat donkey) I would expect Kubica would beat Alonso if Alonso continues like he his this season. Do I think Kubica would beat Alonso if he was back on form? No way.

You know everyone has their own opinion on each driver? You don't like Alonso, yet you can't argue that he beat Schumacher (statistically the most successful driver in the history of the sport) twice, when Schumi was in his "prime". Why don't you credit him more?

Yeah but you can argue that he beat Schumacher. That is the thing with F1, love it or hate it. The title winner is not always the best driver that season, and they certainly don't always deserve it.

In the rules of Top Trumps, the bigger the number, the better. Alonso is therefore the better driver. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

Did you say this to HRT? That's why they are 4 seconds slower...it's a bigger number!!

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Yeah but you can argue that he beat Schumacher. That is the thing with F1, love it or hate it. The title winner is not always the best driver that season, and they certainly don't always deserve it.

true, if it was'nt for that engine blowup in Japan, things would've been different. Also, you could argue Kimi should've been a triple F1 world champion

[AleHop 0]

There are a number of reasons that Renault are performing better this year. Yeah it could be down to Kubica being able to get more out of the car but there has been a lot of changes at Renualt with Flavio and Symonds leaving so the new, fresh ideas might be working, also don't count Alonso out. he must have had a lot of input on this years car throughout last season and it certainly wasn't Piquet or Grosjean who new anything about it, now was it?

1.- Both Alonso and Kubica have a similar driving style, when Renault stopped the development of last year's car to focus on 2010 they knew what they were doing. It was like working on the new car with Kubica already working there.

2.- Kubica is a great driver. If Michelin becomes the new tyre supplier next year he is able to do an amazing job there with Renault like Alonso in '05 and '06. If It's Pirelli then they will struggle a bit but anything can happen.

3.- A great driver + a great team. Perfect.

4.- As you said, fresh&new ideas might be working.

BTW I am a fan of Alonso, Kubica and Raikkonen. Does it make sense at all?

[Kate's Dirty Sister 0]

true, if it was'nt for that engine blowup in Japan, things would've been different. Also, you could argue Kimi should've been a triple F1 world champion

Precisely. In fact if we did a thread asking everyone who they think deserved the title each year I'm sure it would be a very different result.

Kimi in my head was the 2003 champion, he was the greatest driver that year, I don't care what the points said at the end of the season. I'm not sure I think he'd be a triple champ though, what years you thinking?

[Autumnpuma 0]

Sorry, you lost me when you brought up the 6/10ths thing.

[KoolMonkey 0]

Precisely. In fact if we did a thread asking everyone who they think deserved the title each year I'm sure it would be a very different result.

Kimi in my head was the 2003 champion, he was the greatest driver that year, I don't care what the points said at the end of the season. I'm not sure I think he'd be a triple champ though, what years you thinking?

As well as 2003 (if you guys remember McLaren were actually racing a B spec of the 2002 car as the 2003 car was never completed), in my mind Kimi was also the 2005 champion which was the other year he should have won it. He would often score pole position or thereabouts, then be relegated 10 positions back again due to all those engine failures yet he'd still go on to win races. One of the best moments was his last lap passing of Fisi in Japan, and also his last lap tyre blowout at the Nurburgring due to a flat spot. My God did I hate that rule where you couldn't change a tyre even if it was flat spotted and ready to explode.

I've got no problem with anyone being a Alonso, Kimi and Kubica fan. I just found it odd there wasn't much vocal happenings on how ordinary Alonso has been over the past couple of years. He clearly didn't give a toss about Renault and I feel gave a very mediocre performance, waiting waiting for his chance to goto Ferrari. That's unprofessional and yet typical of Alonso.

Add to that the mistakes he's made and this year isn't turning out too great so far. In comparison Renault are delivering you could say, and no one gave them a chance once Renault pulled the plug on the team last year. Is the turnaround solely due to Kubica? no of course not. But what irritates me is how I keep hearing how great Alonso is, how Schumaker-esque he is with feedback, working with the team to improve blah blah blah. And yet really what difference did he make or help with the last 2 years at Renault? I didn't see any talk of this rather it was all being directed at Kimi who at the time was hauling that dog of a car in 2009 around the track faster than even Ferrari's own mechanics thought possible.

Yes Kimi is gone, and I miss that for sure. What I hate more is the slagging off he gets, the comments of him not giving a Sh#t, being unmotivated etc. Everyone here agrees last years Ferrari was a turd of a car. Case in point, even this years car is suspect so far, and they abandoned last years car to get this years one right didn't they. Well looks like they havn't made much progress.

Alonso exists only for himself. There's no teamwork in Alonso, but he's quick to state always how great things are, how it's not a problem if he's acted an a## or said something disparaging towards his own team. There's so many occasions where he's freaked out about his co-driver. Heck I remember him crying away at Montreal years back because Fisi wouldn't move over, bend over and give him his spot.

If this is Alonso's team, he's gotta own it. The excuses and other PR nonsense won't carry him forever. Once the Italian media turns, and the heads of the company see he isn't giving them the results they desire, his time there will get even tougher.

[KoolMonkey 0]

Sorry, you lost me when you brought up the 6/10ths thing.

Wasn't that his claim that he brought just over half a second improvement to a team when he first went to McLaren?

[JHS 1]

Did you say this to HRT? That's why they are 4 seconds slower...it's a bigger number!!

Haha, if that field is "how far off the pace", then yes!

Wasn't that his claim that he brought just over half a second improvement to a team when he first went to McLaren?

Well, it depends on what the team wants. 6 tenths of a bottle of Vodka. Tough call.

[Schumikonen 2]

Some things seem to never change. Can the Alonso and Kimi fans just GET ON. Here's an easy way to solve this argument, with a game of my favourite card game, Top Trumps.

Airton Senna:

Titles: 3

Alain Prost:

Titles: 4

In the rules of Top Trumps, the bigger the number, the better. Prost is therefore the better driver. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

Glad to hear this, Finally my argument about Prost have been cleared for good.

[JHS 1]

Haha, works for me. I'll have the successful drivers, you can have the fan favourites, okay?

[Schumikonen 2]

Haha, works for me. I'll have the successful drivers, you can have the fan favourites, okay?

Works for me even better using that method we get to the conclusion that Schumi is 3 times and a half better than Alonso I mean:

Schumi = 7 WDC

Alonso = 2 WDC

7/2 = 3.5 see, it really works just fine for me.

[Piotr 0]

I believed in Kubica since 2006, even whe a lot of members here claimed he was overhyped (the funniest argument was that in 2007 he was "overdriving" BMW, and that's why his car would break down in almost half of the races...). He drives like a "true Pole" - on the edge, a little crazy at times, but always in control. That may be why I like him. The second reason is that he does not fit an "F1 Primadonna" pattern - he remained a little bit humble despite his success. Finally, he obviously LOVES racing. Can't say the same about many other drivers.

Now, back on the topic - I think Kubica and Renault simply fit together. He wants to go fast, they want to show they can do it. The management makes obvious after every race that they known dang well that they are doing so well mostly thanks to him. More importantly, the Renault engineers and designers LISTEN to him - something that was NOT happening at BMW.

As to Alonso - I think he always had his sights on Ferrari and his stint in Renault last year was just a stepping stone. And the Team knew it. And that's why it simply did not work - it was just a bad marriage.

I don't know if Kubica can win anything with Renault, but it's a pleasure to watch them work as a team where team members respect each other and simply enjoy racing.

[KoolMonkey 0]

I believed in Kubica since 2006, even whe a lot of members here claimed he was overhyped (the funniest argument was that in 2007 he was "overdriving" BMW, and that's why his car would break down in almost half of the races...). He drives like a "true Pole" - on the edge, a little crazy at times, but always in control. That may be why I like him. The second reason is that he does not fit an "F1 Primadonna" pattern - he remained a little bit humble despite his success. Finally, he obviously LOVES racing. Can't say the same about many other drivers.

Now, back on the topic - I think Kubica and Renault simply fit together. He wants to go fast, they want to show they can do it. The management makes obvious after every race that they known dang well that they are doing so well mostly thanks to him. More importantly, the Renault engineers and designers LISTEN to him - something that was NOT happening at BMW.

As to Alonso - I think he always had his sights on Ferrari and his stint in Renault last year was just a stepping stone. And the Team knew it. And that's why it simply did not work - it was just a bad marriage.

I don't know if Kubica can win anything with Renault, but it's a pleasure to watch them work as a team where team members respect each other and simply enjoy racing.

The exact same thing has been claimed about Kimi, especially during 2005. I don't believe a modern F1 driver can overdrive a car as they all operate within set parameters of rpms, fuel mixtures etc.

I do rememeber a comment he made some years back about how Poland never supported him and he got where he got on his own etc. I've been to Poland, I don't think that was as smart thing to say. So what is he didn't get any sponsorship from his own country, it's not a reason to then get all arrogant and say in effect you owe your country nothing. Yet the Polish still support this guy due to I guess having a lack of any internationally recognized sports stars.

[dribbler 6]

Wasn't that his claim that he brought just over half a second improvement to a team when he first went to McLaren?

if you took your head out of your arse for long enough, you would undrstand what mike really meant.

[Kopite Girl 0]

Kubica.

Renault

Alonso

Kimi

Alonso is bad

Kimi is the all-powerful

Alonso is a bitch

Kimi RULEZ OMG!!111ONE

Alonso BLEH

Kimi YAY

Alonso SATAN

SAME

****ING

Sh#t

DIFFERENT

****ING

THREAD.

How to start a thread on Kubica and end up repeating the same old same old.

-waits for the hahahahahahahaha thread to start-

No wait. Thats been done. My bad.

[KoolMonkey 0]

if you took your head out of your arse for long enough, you would undrstand what mike really meant.

I was referring to Alonso's comments some years back, not Autumnpumas. Since you're so enlightened why don't you explain what Autumnpuma was really meaning. Otherwise **** off with the arse comments.

[LabradoRacer 2]

I believed in Kubica since 2006, even whe a lot of members here claimed he was overhyped (the funniest argument was that in 2007 he was "overdriving" BMW, and that's why his car would break down in almost half of the races...). He drives like a "true Pole" - on the edge, a little crazy at times, but always in control. That may be why I like him. The second reason is that he does not fit an "F1 Primadonna" pattern - he remained a little bit humble despite his success. Finally, he obviously LOVES racing. Can't say the same about many other drivers.

Now, back on the topic - I think Kubica and Renault simply fit together. He wants to go fast, they want to show they can do it. The management makes obvious after every race that they known dang well that they are doing so well mostly thanks to him. More importantly, the Renault engineers and designers LISTEN to him - something that was NOT happening at BMW.

As to Alonso - I think he always had his sights on Ferrari and his stint in Renault last year was just a stepping stone. And the Team knew it. And that's why it simply did not work - it was just a bad marriage.

I don't know if Kubica can win anything with Renault, but it's a pleasure to watch them work as a team where team members respect each other and simply enjoy racing.

Agree with everything. Hope Reno give him a winning car or he goes to the team with a fast car. He's too good to be confined to the midpack.

I was referring to Alonso's comments some years back, not Autumnpumas. Since you're so enlightened why don't you explain what Autumnpuma was really meaning. Otherwise **** off with the arse comments.

I think what Autumnpuma meant was that your post had more of Alonso-bashing than Kubica praise.

[Kate's Dirty Sister 0]

Glad to hear this, Finally my argument about Prost have been cleared for good.

You are going down in my estimations Schumikonen.

[Schumikonen 2]

You are going down in my estimations Schumikonen.

Why? I always support the best drivers Prost, Mansell, Schumi, Kimi and Lewis, that's why I am convinced that Alonso is not the best, because I just can't root for him.

But that was an example to show something about the method used to "probe" that Alonso is better than Kimi, is that method is right then what I posted is right too, nothing more to say about that, but if what I wrote is not right then the method is not right eather, I think posting that example was better than say all this here or starting to talk about Kimi and Alonso all over again obviously I would like to get to that point again but...you know.

[the ferret 0]

Kubika has been helping with development of the car race by race tweaking certain areas to fine tune exactly what he wants. The car has always been designed around what alonso had wanted when he was driving previously and everyone else had to get used to that system...until Kubica's first test!!!

The whole car was then changed until he was happy, which he has almost achieved, and that is why the car is now mixing it with the likes of Mercedes (quicker at Turkey) and will in my opinion be challenging the Mclarens in the European GP,,,THE CAR WILL BE QUICK!

[AleHop 0]

I do rememeber a comment he made some years back about how Poland never supported him and he got where he got on his own etc. I've been to Poland, I don't think that was as smart thing to say. So what is he didn't get any sponsorship from his own country, it's not a reason to then get all arrogant and say in effect you owe your country nothing. Yet the Polish still support this guy due to I guess having a lack of any internationally recognized sports stars.

When Alonso won in 2005 the World Championship he said pretty much the same thing about his career, thanking his family, friends and saying there was very little to thank anybody else. Why? Because many politicians and the Spanish motorsport federation were ready to take the focus on them about Alonso winning the Championship. Of course not everybody supports Alonso in Spain but most people would like him to win even if they don't watch Formula One at all.

Your last sentence is absurd.