freaky2

Valencia Gp

338 posts in this topic

What you are missing is that the SC was not deployed right away, the status of the track was SC but the actual car took some time to come to the track and when it did Vettel had already pass the pit exit and LH was passing it at that point a the white line that indicate that SC is on track LH was a little behind the SC but next to it, at that moment Lewis hesitated and lost some time before applyng full power anyway the SC made it first to the white line but just for a couple of feet, so he was penalized for that infraction that he actually comitted so the penalty was fear, had LH been a couple of feet ahead and he wouldn't had received the penalty after that Alonso stood behind the SC and so did the rest of the car that were in line then the SC stooped on track showing a ver nice set of light after letting pass the cars that is was holding behind, while the SC was doing this SV and LH pitted and made it to the SC and the SC continue to "lead" the race while the guys who were behind the SC were pitting except for Kobayashi and Schumi who pitted later and was stopped by the Red light at the pit exit, the reason why SV and LH came ahead of KK is that they were never behind the SC as the rest of the guys who pitted after they were allowed to pass the SC.

I have just watched the race again. The SC was on track for 2mins 16 sec before SV and LH pitted. The safety car was just cruising around waiting for instructions and letting cars go by, irrespective of their track position. Many of them were driving way above the Delta time - hence the steward's post-race penalties. The SC was then told to pick up SV as the leader. This was clearly wrong. The 'leader' should have been the first car to come up behind the SC immediately after deployment. As cars peeled off into the pits, the car behind should move up and so on. Those are the rules as I understand them. SV and LH were the last to pit and should have therefore been the last two cars in the 'snake'. I haven't heard an argument against my point that makes any sense. I have emailed FOTA and the FIA to explain the whole thing to me. If I get an answer from either - I'll post it here.

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I have just watched the race again. The SC was on track for 2mins 16 sec before SV and LH pitted. The safety car was just cruising around waiting for instructions and letting cars go by, irrespective of their track position. Many of them were driving way above the Delta time - hence the steward's post-race penalties. The SC was then told to pick up SV as the leader. This was clearly wrong. The 'leader' should have been the first car to come up behind the SC immediately after deployment. As cars peeled off into the pits, the car behind should move up and so on. Those are the rules as I understand them. SV and LH were the last to pit and should have therefore been the last two cars in the 'snake'. I haven't heard an argument against my point that makes any sense. I have emailed FOTA and the FIA to explain the whole thing to me. If I get an answer from either - I'll post it here.

Great I'll be waiting for this.

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:roll:

Best post ever, Tommy!

Anyway seriously, I don't see that there was a massive problem. It's just the usual issues we get when SCs are deployed.

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:roll:

Best post ever, Tommy!

Anyway seriously, I don't see that there was a massive problem. It's just the usual issues we get when SCs are deployed.

I think so too, IMO the SC should go out right when the leader is coming, if the SC missed the leader like it did today it should wait before crossing the line until the leader is coming again in the next lap, this of course will fix some problems and will bring new ones like everything in F1, like the fact that is a SC is required is because there is a problem on the track and hte longer the SC waits for the leader the longer the driver are going to be exposed to that probelm but that will be fixed by the team radio and the yellow flags, in fact you can have hundres of ways to deal with this situation being the best to forget about it and wait for the next race :P

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I have just watched the race again. The SC was on track for 2mins 16 sec before SV and LH pitted. The safety car was just cruising around waiting for instructions and letting cars go by, irrespective of their track position. Many of them were driving way above the Delta time - hence the steward's post-race penalties. The SC was then told to pick up SV as the leader. This was clearly wrong. The 'leader' should have been the first car to come up behind the SC immediately after deployment. As cars peeled off into the pits, the car behind should move up and so on. Those are the rules as I understand them. SV and LH were the last to pit and should have therefore been the last two cars in the 'snake'. I haven't heard an argument against my point that makes any sense. I have emailed FOTA and the FIA to explain the whole thing to me. If I get an answer from either - I'll post it here.

The safety car was a **** up but SV and LH were the first and second placed drivers and they did the same number of laps as everyone else...

Let's just consider SV.

He was in the lead.

The SC came out behind him.

He scootled around and ended up at the back of the train behind the SC. He pitted during this catch up but that didn't put him behind the SC train.

So now SC is leading a train and everyone down to SV has done a lap less than SV.

Then SC let's everyone else through and they end up behind SV as he is in the lead (having completed a lap more than everyone else).

Perhaps my explaination isn't clear, but at least that's the way I understood it.

If you use pepper and salt pots around your dining room table and count the laps off you'll see what I mean. ;)

Again - SC deployment was terrible. FIA needs to make yet another clarification. I just wish they would simplify the whole rule book for everyone's sake.

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Ferrari bitter about Hamilton's second place

Fernando Alonso and Ferrari are bitter about the stewarding of the European Grand Prix, in which Alonso was ultimately classified eighth, and feel it is entirely wrong that Lewis Hamilton, who illegally overtook the Safety Car, was still able to finish second after serving a Drive Through penalty. The FIA, however, claims it acted entirely correctly and followed procedure.

Ferrari feels it took too long for Hamilton's penalty to be announced, allowing him to suffer no consequence when serving it, and that 5s post-race penalties for cars which had sped during the deployment of the Safety Car were too lenient and had little impact on the final classification.

Early on, as soon as the Safety Car was deployed for Mark Webber's huge cart-wheeling accident, and Hamilton passed it, Alonso was on the radio to his team. "Get Charlie (Whiting, the FIA Race Director) onto the Hamilton case – it's the only thing you have to do all race," he said.

Post-race, Alonso stormed: "The race was ruined by the Safety Car and everything that followed on from that. I am disappointed most of all for the thousands of spectators who were here today and saw how the situation was handled. I am very bitter about what happened today. I was in third place, a metre behind Hamilton at the moment the Safety Car came out on track and at the chequered flag, he was second and I was ninth, even though we had made the same choice of strategy.

"The penalty he was given came when it could no longer have any real influence on his finishing position. From then on, my race was compromised."

Sporting director Stefano Domenicali added: "We are very angry because we didn't get the points that we should have done from this race considering the performance. We did a step forward, not enough maybe to catch Red Bull, but in the right direction and we saw on the first lap of the race the situation was progressing in the right direction.

"We were extremely unlucky because if you look at the only cars that were on the main straight when the Safety Car was deployed, it was Vettel, Hamilton, Fernando and Felipe. Sebastian was able to be in front of the Safety Car, Hamilton was basically not respecting the yellow light of the Safety Car and we ended up with our two cars behind the Safety Car. And then we had a complete lap with our two cars behind it and in the meantime all the others are coming in and taking advantage of the fact that we are not able to pass it."

Ironically, as Domenicali explained that he understood the importance of the FIA having to make sure the decision to penalise Hamilton was correct, England's second goal that never was in their World Cup match with Germany appeared on the TV in the Ferrari motorhome and he wryly gesticulated at it by way of example!

He added: "When the situation is that you take a decision and know that there is an impact on the classification, and in the end, because of the delay, it has not happened, this is something that deviates from the principal of the decision and today this affected Ferrari very, very heavily. Next time it will affect someone else but today is the time, I think, to make sure this kind of situation does not happen again.

"For sure, everyone thinks about how to use the sporting decision because at the moment you know that there is an investigation, you say 'push' because maybe they will get a 20s penalty. Then they get five seconds. That is something that from my view is not good."

There was no problem with the timing of the Safety Car deployment or the fact that it did not pick up race leader Vettel – it can be called for at any time -- and in that respect, Ferrari was merely unfortunate. Race director Whiting had actually called for the Safety Car as soon as Webber was airborne and before his car had actually come to a stop. Anticipating a serious situation, he wanted the medical car to get to the scene of the accident without having to worry about race cars going past it, which is why, with Vettel and Hamilton already gone, the Safety Car did not wave the rest of the field past until it was through Turn 13.

The delay in penalising Hamilton was because Whiting and the stewards wanted to be absolutely sure that a penalty was justified. Hamilton at first seemed to slow down when he saw the Safety Car out of the corner of his eye, then realised that the Safety Car line was further up the road and carried on. Whether he got there before the Safety Car or not, was a close call.

Proving it was no simple matter. Race control has the use of a GPS system but there was no back-up timing loop at that point and so they had to find footage of the incident. That was initially from the wrong angle and was inconclusive and so they had to locate aerial footage. There was also the question of exactly where the timing transponders were on Hamilton's car and the Safety Car respectively which, if you are talking about less than a car's length, is significant. That all needed to be checked and speeds/distances ratified.

There was also criticism that by the time it became clear to race control that a penalty for Hamilton was appropriate it should also have been clear to them that a mere Drive Through would have no impact on his finishing position and that perhaps a Stop-Go penalty would have been more appropriate.

Against that though, the governing body follows precedent instead of making subjective decisions and leaving itself open to accusations of inconsistency. Ironically, the most recent precedent was the Drive Through penalty given to Webber on the occasion of his first F1 win at Nurburgring last year, which he was able to serve without losing his lead.

The FIA also pointed out that the speeding penalties for cars during their pit stop laps under the Safety Car were relatively lenient because many of them were doing 180mph plus within a couple of hundred metres of the Safety Car line when the car was deployed and could do little about it. They may have broken the letter of the law but not its spirit. The conclusion has to be that on this occasion Hamilton was fortunate and Ferrari the opposite.

Source:grandprix.com

.....................................................>.............>>>>>>>>>>

nuff said!

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Would Fernando have accepted his lot and his ultimate position had the Hamilton safety car issue not unfolded in front of his eyes? Once again, the lad needs to exorcise his demons, see the bigger picture, accept days like these and drive out of his skin. A flawed diamond.

Michael's strategy baffled me. Were his hard tyres really in need of such an early change? Why didn't they 'Kobayashi' him? Was Brawn's shaking head on the prat-perch a consequence of misplaced trust in a strategy call by one of his subordinates? Michael's qualifying was poor, but then so was Nico's. The bashers are having a field day, but to me it was clear that Michael had very good pace but no way to use it once he had been compromised.

Eddie Jordan continued with his head in the sand as Coulthard got mis-understood. Jordan then goes off to pull the clean shaven rottweiller over to bark at David and try and scare him into submission. A producer somewhere in the BBC must have been cringing as much as we were. How long before Coulthard walks or we get the relief of an intelligent race analysis with just David and Jake?

Vettel deserved this one. The issues and allegations are the annoying crumbs from what was a quite nice slice of racey toast. Brush them on the floor and let them be consumed by the children who lay there. Today was about praising tub integrity, anyway.

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Surely there has to be a better way. Already this season there's been numerous incidents that have shown how stupid the rules are regarding the safety car. Whilst I don't by Ferrari's talk of the race was fixed in an way, it was evident that Hamilton broke the rules fair and square and din't really pay a suitable penalty for it. But hey, that's racing. You win some and you lose some. I'm sure Fernando will be fired up to makes sure that Hamilton doesn't win his home Grand Prix at Silverstone!

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Perhaps the only two matters we can then agree on is:

1. Vettel kept his head down, stayed focused and drove an excellent race.

2. We now have a better understanding of why Craig's sheep are so damn content.

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Alonso as always is talking a little bit to much, they guy has a crusade against the rookie who beat him, he said "I respected the rules and he didn't" but yet Hamilton had a got through and Alonso didn't get one.

Ferrari had a unfear test a few days ago and they including Alonso got away with it, why is he not talking about this? the truth is that had Hamilton loose a position he would be talking like this because this is all about Hamilton, Alonso is jealous of Hamilton success and from now on with Mclaren getting a big update things are getting very dark for Alonso, if he continue like this he is going to strangle himself with his own hands in one of hte next races :P

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My thoughts on the whole FIA SC, Hamilton, Alonso argument...

REMEMBER I AM NOT A HAMILTON FAN AND I AM NOT AN ALONSO FAN!

All three of my DODs (Kobay, Barrichello and Sutil) received no advantage from FIA **** ups. They knuckled down, got on with it and finished 4th, 6th and 7th.

I have sympathy for Alonso's argument today - the time it took to hand Hamilton his penalty was way too long and made the penalty pointless. FIA did a very poor job (deliberately or not) - this is nothing new.

On the other hand Hamilton was given and served a penalty for his SC overtake. We can see from the replay that it was a close cut thing and actually he could have been well away in front of the SC had he not hesitated - had that happened there would be nothing to complain about.

Complaining about an advantage he could have easily gained legally is different from complaining about an advantage he could only gain illegally - it opens the complainent up to accusations of sour grapes - to me, a true F1 fan would respect the fact that Hamilton would have been ahead of the SC had he not hesitated and would therefore accept the penalty he was given and move on.

On the other hand, it seems somewhat somewhat unfair to deny that Alonso and Ferrari have a good case to make. The FIA's slowness did aid Hamilton and they should really do better. Not Hamilton's fault, but worth making a complaint about all the same.

On another note - any claim that the FIA sent the SC out deliberately to split Hamilton and Alonso is ridiculous. Show me someone who could make that calculation on the fly when they were only 2 seconds apart. Webber crashed and immediately the SC was called.

Sadly, I quickly lost my sympathy for Alonso himself because of the subsequent whinging from him, Ferrari and their fans. The fact that he stopped racing after the SC and settled for 8th dissapointed me greatly. In the face of adversity I expect an F1 driver to try even harder and gets the best result he can. I don't expect him to spend the remaining 30 laps planning his boo hoo speech. Look at what Kobayashi, Barrichello & Sutil acheived.

He and Ferrari should have lodged the complaint and then got on and raced.

It's like England's loss to Germany. True football followers understand that although Lampard was deprived of a goal unfairly, Germany played better as a team and got the win they deserved. Whinging babies will continue to blame everything on the referee because they can't grow up and accept that sport is sport.

I will only make this one post - I can't be bothered to repeat my take ad nauseum.

(or not - still 2 weeks to British GP :D)

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My thoughts on the whole FIA SC, Hamilton, Alonso argument...

REMEMBER I AM NOT A HAMILTON FAN AND I AM NOT AN ALONSO FAN!

All three of my DODs (Kobay, Barrichello and Sutil) received no advantage from FIA **** ups. They knuckled down, got on with it and finished 4th, 6th and 7th.

I have sympathy for Alonso's argument today - the time it took to hand Hamilton his penalty was way too long and made the penalty pointless. FIA did a very poor job (deliberately or not) - this is nothing new.

On the other hand Hamilton was given and served a penalty for his SC overtake. We can see from the replay that it was a close cut thing and actually he could have been well away in front of the SC had he not hesitated - had that happened there would be nothing to complain about.

Complaining about an advantage he could have easily gained legally is different from complaining about an advantage he could only gain illegally - it opens the complainent up to accusations of sour grapes - to me, a true F1 fan would respect the fact that Hamilton would have been ahead of the SC had he not hesitated and would therefore accept the penalty he was given and move on.

On the other hand, it seems somewhat somewhat unfair to deny that Alonso and Ferrari have a good case to make. The FIA's slowness did aid Hamilton and they should really do better. Not Hamilton's fault, but worth making a complaint about all the same.

On another note - any claim that the FIA sent the SC out deliberately to split Hamilton and Alonso is ridiculous. Show me someone who could make that calculation on the fly when they were only 2 seconds apart. Webber crashed and immediately the SC was called.

Sadly, I quickly lost my sympathy for Alonso himself because of the subsequent whinging from him, Ferrari and their fans. The fact that he stopped racing after the SC and settled for 8th dissapointed me greatly. In the face of adversity I expect an F1 driver to try even harder and gets the best result he can. I don't expect him to spend the remaining 30 laps planning his boo hoo speech. Look at what Kobayashi, Barrichello & Sutil acheived.

He and Ferrari should have lodged the complaint and then got on and raced.

It's like England's loss to Germany. True football followers understand that although Lampard was deprived of a goal unfairly, Germany played better as a team and got the win they deserved. Whinging babies will continue to blame everything on the referee because they can't grow up and accept that sport is sport.

I will only make this one post - I can't be bothered to repeat my take ad nauseum.

(or not - still 2 weeks to British GP :D)

Well said mate.

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Sadly, I quickly lost my sympathy for Alonso himself because of the subsequent whinging from him, Ferrari and their fans. The fact that he stopped racing after the SC and settled for 8th dissapointed me greatly. In the face of adversity I expect an F1 driver to try even harder and gets the best result he can. I don't expect him to spend the remaining 30 laps planning his boo hoo speech. Look at what Kobayashi, Barrichello & Sutil acheived.

He and Ferrari should have lodged the complaint and then got on and raced.

I heard some radio communication between Alonso and his engineer and believe me that he tried, I mean, his engineer tried as much as he could to to make Alonso to get back in the race again but he was so mad at Hamilton that he just couldn't get over it, he used phrases like "He was second and he is second, there is nothing we can do about it" and "I need you to be wise in this' and more but the guy acted like a kid and didn't listen, who know what he could had achieved with a different actitude that is why I don't blame Ferrari for this but Ferrari is supporting him right now and that will make him do the same if another case like this happen in the future, the team should not allow Alonso nor any other driver to do behive like that.

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My thoughts on the whole FIA SC, Hamilton, Alonso argument...

REMEMBER I AM NOT A HAMILTON FAN AND I AM NOT AN ALONSO FAN!

Good for you. You remember that as well because...

Sadly, I quickly lost my sympathy for Alonso himself because of the subsequent whinging from him, Ferrari and their fans. The fact that he stopped racing after the SC and settled for 8th dissapointed me greatly. In the face of adversity I expect an F1 driver to try even harder and gets the best result he can. I don't expect him to spend the remaining 30 laps planning his boo hoo speech. Look at what Kobayashi, Barrichello & Sutil acheived.

He and Ferrari should have lodged the complaint and then got on and raced.

...here you said something very reasonable, but very unfair as well.

I didn't expect much of our usual crowd around here, but I expected more from you than letting yourself be dragged by the brainless mob. Like you, this will be the last time I mention the lower lifeforms of fans which I dutifully tried to ignore through countless pages of this thread. Your fail is at least three-fold:

- Alonso: to think that he "stopped racing, planning his boo hoo speech" is something ridiculous as the guy was the only one that provided actual overtaking until Koby, being the only man with fresh tires on the last lap, managed to overtake two cars that were directly in front of him. Koby did ag reat race. Alonso did an "average" race and perhaps emotions clouded his judgement on the last lap overtaking by Koby. But the guy didn't "stop racing" from my POV, not anymore than the other drivers around the field as nobody could race anybody else there; you need to take into account MSC racing against himself in the last spot or Massa to find other two guys trying anything else...or MW trying to find a way over the other cars...and we all know how it ended! Nah, nobody "raced" because the track/car combination is lethal at Valencia. Until the regulations change, Valencia will never be about racing. So if he stopped racing because he was planning his "Boo hoo speech" why did everybody else stopped racing as well? Are we going to hear more "boo hoo" speeches from Vettel? From Lewis? From Chandhok?

This race was a double standards galore from most people, which takes me to point 2. That includes Alonso, of course, but, then again, if we are going to consider Alonso's fury for a situation that hurt his race how come that similar tantrums from other drivers passed unnoticed through all this season? But that will be covered in my third point.

- Ferrari: the penalties were ill timed like you said and ultimately Ferrari was one of the teams that lost the most. Why not complaint? Because they are proven cheaters? Did Ross Brawn clutching those pics in his hands at Monaco and claiming for divine justice bother you as much? Or since he switched to Mercedes his claims became squeaky clean? MSC also complained, does it bother you as much? It is a common reaction from any team to react when they feel their chances were hurt. Ferrari lost a lot towards the WCC and (this time) they weren't even on the rule breaking party (take note that I am saying "rule breaking" and not "cheating"). All teams do that. Complaining about teams that complain because they were on the losing side is also a way of whinning. And speaking about whinners this takes me to point 3.

- Alonso fans: herein lies the rub. I am a confessed Alonso fan. Everytime any of you say "Alonso fans" you are mentioning me. And you know it. I said it a thousand times: there are only two confessed Alonso fans in this whole forum. Alex and me. Alex is a little more emotionally vested which is comprehensible as Alonso is a fellow ountry man. Notice how many Buttonites are from outside the UK...see my point? That is perfectly natural.

Anyways, re read (if you can without puking) this whole thread again. You will notice the continuous, unbearable primitive taunts from our less gifted members crying with a perseverance that is more annoying than the whole Wagnerian sagas played on vuvuzelas. Funny thing is that they kept spilling his hatred against Alonso which just show how bitter they are (as nothing interesting had happened at the moment to justify their taunts) but they also attacked continuously "Alonso fans", namely: Alex and me. Re read the thread carefuly. Tell me where did Alex or me say anything to justify the amount of poison this homunculi threw at us?

Now they could be justified and come up with their "hey we never used personal attacks" and "see? you are whinning!". And that would be as idiotic as their previous posts because whinning and personal attacks was all they did for the past Sh#tload of pages. I tried to exert my patience and ignore them, but reading you talking about "Alonso's fans" seemed very unfair. I stated my POV which is very close to yours since the beginning. I pointed at FIA and their ill timed judgement. I joked around with Craig who has an opposite view than mine in a good manner. Meanwhile, I had to withstand these completely biased little men talking about "alonso fans whinners"??? Why?

A final word on "whinning" and double standards:

- for the past races, Button has complained about the track, the car, the backmarkers, the weather and the oil spill at the Gulf of Mexico. Nobody started a thread about his continuous complaints. Nobody called it "whinning". And that's ok. The guy was frustrated and rightfully so. A benefit that apparently FA does not have for reasons uncertain...

- Hamilton's comments about "rules are rules" are, at least, as cynical as Alonso's ones. If you blame Alonso for the Spygate and the Crashgate to judge his comments, then you need to see Hamilton's ones under the light of the Liegate, the Spygate, the "that thing he did at Melbourne with his car" gate, the "weave-gate" and the "push my car to the parc ferme" gate among others. Yet nobody started a thread about that or uttered a single word (except Alex and got promptly and unfairly lapidated for that). What about LH saying that his car was "crap"?

- MSC complained for the SCgate at Monacogate. Yet nobodygate said that he was whinningate.

I could keep going ad nauseam. But the point is that everybody is entitled to complain except for Alonso and his fans because in that case is called "whinning" or "he is no team player" or "they are throwing a tantrum" or "boo hoo speeches"

Is it? Why should I be mistreated for openly admitting my bias by those who besides being biased are also disrespectful and ultimately clog the whole forum with their little bitterness?

I usually try to move on, but lately it certainly is getting harder as you might have noticed by my increasing posts lowering to their level. My usually fair share of patience towards personal jokes grows thin when malice is involved in them as I can only ignore them (which do not stop them from keep attacking) or being dragged to these levels (and then being accused for the things these guys should be accused of)

I can try my best to tolerate them, but it certainly surprise me that you mention Alonso fans in your post. So, as per usual mud slinging procedures from the forums I will ask from you to quote a single post (besides this one) in the whole thread that could upset you from the "pro Alonso" side. Then, try to find less than a hundred posts from the homunculi attacking Alonso or Alonso fans for the things the homunculi do themselves.

One thing I used to love about F1 is that you could be passionate without becoming a hooligan. Lately, as our most illustrated members slowly drifted away or posted less often, this has become just another place for hooligans to come up with their primitive chants. I'd rather switch to football for that.

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The best way to keep a fire going is to keep pouring fuel on it. With a fire that has been constructed badly, the planks and kindling are the work of amateur boy scouts. If it's not going to hurt anyone when it topples over, just walk away from it.

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The best way to keep a fire going is to keep pouring fuel on it. With a fire that has been constructed badly, the planks and kindling are the work of amateur boy scouts. If it's not going to hurt anyone when it topples over, just walk away from it.

Yes, I know. But I am only human. I can only take so much abuse turning my other cheek before I get mad. And what p**ses me off the most is that by ignoring the most annoying posts we only allowed ourselves to let the forum be flooded with under average posting, which only ellicites less postings from the more valuable members and it is an endless downspiral of "trolls" --> "average posters getting mad/ignoring the trolls" --> "less posts from average posters" --> "more troll content" --> "good posters go away or just lurk around without posting"

I used to enjoy being around because most posters were better than I am so I could always get something positive, learn something new, or at least have fun. I can still focus myself if I am in a very good mood to have some fun. But I still regret missing the rest.

I will try to contain my rage against the trolls. But I still wish there were fewer trolls and more valuable posts. Because it is affecting my own posts as well and I do not want to be continuously dragged to the lower levels of posting unless it is somewhat related to semen jokes.

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Yes, I know. But I am only human. I can only take so much abuse turning my other cheek before I get mad. And what p**ses me off the most is that by ignoring the most annoying posts we only allowed ourselves to let the forum be flooded with under average posting, which only ellicites less postings from the more valuable members and it is an endless downspiral of "trolls" --> "average posters getting mad/ignoring the trolls" --> "less posts from average posters" --> "more troll content" --> "good posters go away or just lurk around without posting"

I used to enjoy being around because most posters were better than I am so I could always get something positive, learn something new, or at least have fun. I can still focus myself if I am in a very good mood to have some fun. But I still regret missing the rest.

I will try to contain my rage against the trolls. But I still wish there were fewer trolls and more valuable posts. Because it is affecting my own posts as well and I do not want to be continuously dragged to the lower levels of posting unless it is somewhat related to semen jokes.

Just what i would have expected from a delluded pro-Alonso spermisteric.

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Just what i would have expected from a delluded pro-Alonso spermisteric.

Oh, look! The lewisteric gloating because his little swimmers made it to the finish line! FYI, that's what happens when the rubber wears off, whether it is the hard or the soft compound.

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Well said mate.

Thank you. Just rewatched the race and thought I'd add my two cents.

some good stuff

some other good stuff

Tommy and Andres - take what you like from my post and ignore what you don't. Just felt inclined to give my take that's all. I agree for the most part with both of you.

Andres - don't worry - when I say Alonso fans I am refering to people who are Alonso fans. Not to all Alonso fans. I should also perhaps include Hamiphobics (was that the term?) ;).

As for your Labrador problem and his penchant for finishing the sodoku before you get a chance - I think you have to chat with him about that yourself. Sorry.

The best way to keep a fire going is to keep pouring fuel on it. With a fire that has been constructed badly, the planks and kindling are the work of amateur boy scouts. If it's not going to hurt anyone when it topples over, just walk away from it.

My kindling is spent. :D

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Tommy and Andres - take what you like from my post and ignore what you don't. Just felt inclined to give my take that's all. I agree for the most part with both of you.

Just for the record, I wasn't agree nor disagreeing with your post, just adding some info about the case that I think it was important to mention because the team tried to get over it as soon as possible as be heard on the radio conversation BTW where can I get the Ferrari radio transcript for this race?

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Andres - don't worry - when I say Alonso fans I am refering to people who are Alonso fans. Not to all Alonso fans. I should also perhaps include Hamiphobics (was that the term?) ;).

I think the word you are looking for is Lewisterics :P BTW the word I was looking for several threads, months and races ago when we were trying to get the debate thread to start was "Dialetic"

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Andres - don't worry - when I say Alonso fans I am refering to people who are Alonso fans. Not to all Alonso fans. I should also perhaps include Hamiphobics (was that the term?) ;).

I know what you meant and if I chose to reply to you is because I have a high regard for your opinions. But it intrigued me why Alonso fans (an almost non-existant species in this forum) deserves a special mention whereas the much noisier Hamilton fans mob does not? Even the Buttonites get a lot of flak from both sides (and, to their defense, I must add that they take it in the chin, but they also are mostly casual posters).

Everybody complaints about everything: SC rules, no overtaking, teams cheating, FIAs decisions, etc. But only "Alonso fans" are considered an evil group and I wonder why.

I know you didn't mean your post in this way but as you mentioned them I was hoping you could give me a reasonable answer on that. One I could respect from a poster I do respect, or at least a poster I respect as much as I respect Steve's semen.

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For the record...

I think the guilty party here was entirely the FIA for being so crap. Like I said - nothing new.

My dissapointment at Alonso's whinging and his fans reaction is precisely the same as my reaction to Hamilton's whinging and his fan's reactions in the past. I loose all sympathy for both of them on the occasions that they sulk like little children.

If the position was reversed, Hamilton would be whinging about it to the press too. Then I'd be saying he was a cry baby instead.

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