subiedude

Stewards And Safety Cars??

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Well this turned out to be a cluster again for the stewards and safety car rules at Valencia / European GP. So many top drivers and cars sufferred for this mess that needs immediate attention. Only Vettel had no real issues in this and finally got a clean win, but the rest is another confusing inconsistent disaster. Ferrari and mercedes have legitimate complaints along with a few others. How is it that this so called pinnacle of motorsports has the worst stewards, most inconsistent penalties/decisions along with the most confusing safety car rules??

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How is it that this so called pinnacle of motorsports has the worst stewards, most inconsistent penalties/decisions along with the most confusing safety car rules??

Because it has very little to do with sport.

It's about business, TV ratings... Money.

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You may well be very correct as they need all this grey arbitrary ability to insure the results they want. It is so sad......and how long has it been since you saw a real dice at the front other than the two RBR cars crashing stupidly? Then we have those moving chicanes at the back of the field and Webber found one today....very distressing considering all the hype...

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It is so sad......

It's not so sad. Vettel and Red Bull were very happy celebrating a win today.

Let's see if they're so happy an the end of the Championship.

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Charlie is ready for retirement. He made mess out of this race as well as from last lap of Monaco. Simply bad race management.

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A completely fixed race. Even the penalties post-race are a joke... as expected.

No reason to be surprised, of course. This has been going on for ages... only this time is was one of those "cranes" that no matter how blind one is, it is impossible to miss.

I had my laughs when Whiting fixed the race (13 laps to penalize Hamilton, brilliant), and then more laughs with the lewisteric shock around here as they tried to outdo each other in denial and empty justifications.

The GP sucked evidently but it was fun. If this is all we got to look forward too, I have no problem with it. I prefer racing, but I will settle for comedy.

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Yes, to continue watching this, assuming they dont correct the decision/penalty criteria and the safety car rules, we are going to need to change our perspective on this and humor may be the only way we can get through it!

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Nah. Heinlein's Razor should be applied here: "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"

Two great examples we had today in football as well.

A bad day for stewards/referees, today.

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Nah. Heinlein's Razor should be applied here: "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"

Two great examples we had today in football as well.

A bad day for stewards/referees, today.

c#ck-up before conspiracy, indeed.

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A bad day for stewards/referees, today.

A bad day? Do you need more than 1 lap of investigation to see that Hamilton overtook the SC?

Hamilton keeping pole in Canada when his car didn't comply with the rules was another bad day?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UmoBWXT2x0

Hamilton weaving in front of Petrov to avoid a faster car passing him on the straight was another bad day?

The list is longer, let's call it a bad day 2010 F1 Championship.

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A bad day? Do you need more than 1 lap of investigation to see that Hamilton overtook the SC?

Hamilton keeping pole in Canada when his car didn't comply with the rules was another bad day?

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=2UmoBWXT2x0

Hamilton weaving in front of Petrov to avoid a faster car passing him on the straight was another bad day?

The list is longer, let's call it a bad day 2010 F1 Championship.

As usual Alonso moaning that he's behind Hamilton and trying by any means to to get in front of Lewis, sorry Alonso you're just not fast enough.

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A bad day? Do you need more than 1 lap of investigation to see that Hamilton overtook the SC?

Hamilton keeping pole in Canada when his car didn't comply with the rules was another bad day?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UmoBWXT2x0

Hamilton weaving in front of Petrov to avoid a faster car passing him on the straight was another bad day?

The list is longer, let's call it a bad day 2010 F1 Championship.

A list of poor decisions from the stewards still does not constitute a conspiracy. And if it is a conspiracy to make Hamilton win at all costs it certainly is the most idiotic conspiracy ever. So, in that case, I would call a bad day the day that the conspirators met to come up with such a preposterours plan.

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A list of poor decisions from the stewards still does not constitute a conspiracy. And if it is a conspiracy to make Hamilton win at all costs it certainly is the most idiotic conspiracy ever. So, in that case, I would call a bad day the day that the conspirators met to come up with such a preposterours plan.

I never said it was a conspiracy and if I did, I didn't mean it.

I said it is far from being a sport, it is about money, business, etc.

If you want me to say just one word as a definition, as I said before, I would call it a farce. Tomorrow they could penalise Hamilton for no reason or let Alonso get away with it. They have no problem with that and this farce does not affect only Hamilton or Alonso, there are 22 more drivers involved in it.

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I never said it was a conspiracy and if I did, I didn't mean it.

I said it is far from being a sport, it is about money, business, etc.

If you want me to say just one word as a definition, as I said before, I would call it a farce. Tomorrow they could penalise Hamilton for no reason or let Alonso get away with it. They have no problem with that and this farce does not affect only Hamilton or Alonso, there are 22 more drivers involved in it.

A farce it was, yes. And MSC is right being mad at it as well, as he got a 20 sec penalty at Monaco for...what? With this race the new "lenient" system of penalties became as ineffectual as the old hyper punishing one.

F1 needs a clearer, more consistent and less obtrusive penalty system. The system is too arbitrary and today there was really no "fair" outcoming after the c#ck up with the SC. Breaches contemplated in the rules should have automatic penalties and they should fit the advantage gained.

In this case, the penalty awarded to LH was correct, the problem is that his move earned him more than a 20 sec advantage in the end. Sheer luck for him.

And, geez, is it that hard to have a SC rule that does not need to be clarified after each SC is deployed?

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And, geez, is it that hard to have a SC rule that does not need to be clarified after each SC is deployed?

Exactly - they need to burn most of the rule book and simplify everything. What they keep doing is adding more conditionality to paper over the cracks.

Their clarification of the SC on the last lap rule (as a result of Monaco) still has a gaping hole...

What if a crash happens just before the finish line, but after the pit lane entrance a few laps before the end of the race?

Does the SC still come in to the pits leaving the field to pick their way through the debris on the last lap?

They make one "clarification" and it causes more confusion down the line.

In essence racing should be really simple - why can't the rules be?

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A bad day? Do you need more than 1 lap of investigation to see that Hamilton overtook the SC?

The list is longer, let's call it a bad day 2010 F1 Championship.

Hey thanks for that...now spin it to 29secs and pause...see that white line across the track? That is the point at which the SC is considered on the track. It's not even a blink of an eye between both cars crossing the line, and it's even harder for a F1 driver to see that line (as it runs across the track, not along it, and near impossible to see when your nose is touching it). Thats how much there was in it between passing and not passing the safety car.

He got his penalty. He served it. Move on. Me and Dribbles are getting sick of this conspiracy cheater stuff.

Although I have a conspiracy that needs answering? How do we know Vettel raced all his laps? He wasn't even on the telly for 99% of the race...he's like a ghost....I reckon he just parked by the start finish line and was rocking the car across the line every 99secs or so, and only did the first few laps and the last few.....

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Hey thanks for that...now spin it to 29secs and pause...see that white line across the track? That is the point at which the SC is considered on the track. It's not even a blink of an eye between both cars crossing the line, and it's even harder for a F1 driver to see that line (as it runs across the track, not along it, and near impossible to see when your nose is touching it). Thats how much there was in it between passing and not passing the safety car.

He got his penalty. He served it. Move on. Me and Dribbles are getting sick of this conspiracy cheater stuff.

Although I have a conspiracy that needs answering? How do we know Vettel raced all his laps? He wasn't even on the telly for 99% of the race...he's like a ghost....I reckon he just parked by the start finish line and was rocking the car across the line every 99secs or so, and only did the first few laps and the last few.....

After looking through the safety car rules ( http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/sporting_regulations/8687/fia.html) I am under the impression that after you have seen the safety car, you are to stay behind it unless told otherwise. The first safety car line controls overtaking between cars just after the safety car has returned to the pits. The second safety car line is used to regulate overtaking of cars that are exiting the pits while the race is under safety car. Nowhere do the rules specify that the safety car is considered to be on track after passing the second safety car line. IMO as soon as the safety car has passed the pit exit it is considered on track. Now if you are passing the pit exit at 190mph and miss to spot the SC that emerges just as you pass, then you might be given the benefit of the doubt but seeing it and braking first and then intentionally accelerating makes it very hard to justify anything else than an intentional breach of the rules.

Hamilton said afterwords that he was confused.

“Whenever a Safety Car comes out, it’s difficult to compute all the information. There are all these beeps in your ear, and lights flashing on your dashboard too. There’s got to be a certain time between the ‘Safety Car 1′ line and the ‘Safety Car 2′ line, and between those two lines you can go fast. So it’s all a bit complicated.

“So I pushed past the last Safety Car line, and was obviously then trying to close the gap to Seb. But as I came out of the first corner, all of a sudden I saw the Safety Car coming out, so I backed off and went across the line as I did that, so I thought I was okay.

You are supposed to slow down already after you see the SC signs and yellow flags and to assure people slow down and not rush to the pits at full speed there is a "maximum time" that is calculated by the ECU that you should take from the moment the signs are shown till the second safety car line (people that got the 5 second penalties drove faster than that).

It is beyond criticism that it took 15 laps to penalize him and beyond belief that he was penalized with a drive through and not a stop and go penalty. According to the rules those are the two penalties that the stewards can impose, so next time you are stuck behind the safety car, just overtake it and gain a whole lap and laugh about it when you get a drive though.

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Ironically, the new safety car rule was introduced due to many complains by teams that suffered with refueling/pit closed, so this year with the refuelling ban what´s the purposed to open the pits inmediatly?

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Ironically, the new safety car rule was introduced due to many complains by teams that suffered with refueling/pit closed, so this year with the refuelling ban what´s the purposed to open the pits inmediatly?

It seems to me that nobody thinks two steps ahead. Rule is there and everybody already forgot what was the purpose of the rule. I hope Jean Todt learns something from this mess. Some learning points I suggest:

-retire Charlie (he made mess out of Monaco and Valencia)

-hire someone to write down purpose of rules, so when rules change that it is easy to remove what is not needed any more

-and PLEASE do not issue license to be team manager to Stefano Domeniccali (that move would in favor of Ferrari so other teams might object)

On the other hand extremely stupid strategy from SF pitwall. SD should be marched to sell t-shirts. After losing so much time behind SC compared to their rivals, the right strategy was to skip pitstop and keep the lead.

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Thats true about the strategy Wapi. 'cept they were on the soft tyre.

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It is beyond criticism that it took 15 laps to penalize him and beyond belief that he was penalized with a drive through and not a stop and go penalty. According to the rules those are the two penalties that the stewards can impose, so next time you are stuck behind the safety car, just overtake it and gain a whole lap and laugh about it when you get a drive though.

I'm sure they would have black flagged Chandhok if he overtakes the SC.

It seems to me that nobody thinks two steps ahead. Rule is there and everybody already forgot what was the purpose of the rule. I hope Jean Todt learns something from this mess. Some learning points I suggest:

-retire Charlie (he made mess out of Monaco and Valencia)

-hire someone to write down purpose of rules, so when rules change that it is easy to remove what is not needed any more

-and PLEASE do not issue license to be team manager to Stefano Domeniccali (that move would in favor of Ferrari so other teams might object)

On the other hand extremely stupid strategy from SF pitwall. SD should be marched to sell t-shirts. After losing so much time behind SC compared to their rivals, the right strategy was to skip pitstop and keep the lead.

I mostly agree with your comment but Vettel and Hamilton would have lead the race regardless of what Ferrari did. I think they had a chance with one of the cars, because Massa didn't have much to lose. Yes, I think they should have gambled. In fact I thought they would do that as I was watching live timing info during the race.

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I'm sure they would have black flagged Chandhok if he overtakes the SC.

Who knows? With a bit more development, he might be quick enough to do so.

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Who knows? With a bit more development, he might be quick enough to do so.

laugh.gif

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