rodders47

Not Bad For A No. 2 Driver

67 posts in this topic

Boys don't get much bigger than the ones who cross the line first, don't you think?

No, you can be an immature brat, not naming anybody, to win too. I guess I'm just not a fan of his attitude, sure he's a great driver, but his attitude is lousy. It's entertaining to hear drivers speak out against their teams occasionally, but this didn't do anything for me, if anything, I've lost a bit of respect for him through that.

Edited by JHS

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Of course he could, if I was to rate his managing of the situation I would rate him a 6/10. Credits for not letting himself being nominated a de facto number 2 driver in silence, minus the fact that he did it in such an antagonistic way that he will certainly hurt his chances of improving his situation in the future

On the other hand, he just reacted to a situation that was managed a 3/10 by the team. >Your cars are the fastest out there by a mile FFS! Give them both the same wing, don't switch it or if you had to, just sit with Webber, eplain things thoroughly (he will never be a favorite over Vettel, in any case, as he lacks both the career future and the Germanic past). It is only natural that a team will eventually end up picking a favorite driver. It is stupid when they keep claiming that they are all innocent and that favoritism is "that thing the other teams do".

So, what Webber did was bad for the team, and bad for his career chances at RBR. But it was immensely refreshing and fun for me. As I am not part of the team, noir Webber's accountant, I will just cheer him by.

Go Webbo, you tell'em! :D

100% agree. I just hope Webber doesn't paint himself into a corner, making such comments could really come back to bite him and I wouldn't mind seeing Vettel put to the test throughout the year, rather than see the team start to favour Vettel even more due to MW's friction with the team.

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Jenson's gonna be champion again. Simple.

All this bulls##t is a ploy by Red Bull to get their rivals to believe that all is not OK when in fact all is rosy. Seb and Mark are that close they wash each others underpants and share the same bathwater. Oh yeah, believe it!

Sorry. I'm in the wrong thread. I need the Conspiracy Theory thread.

:unsure::rolleyes:

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Bah, just shut the **** up and drive, Craig :P

I think you'll find it's: get in, hold on, and shut the **** up, coz I AM driving....bitch!

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As a colonial schmuck I think it be best I put my 2-cents worth in....

What he said IS very Australian, and in this part of the world, quite the norm from rugby to cricket to league to motorsport. People around here speak their mind and will make back handed comments because we aren't all poofy PC ponses.

Indeed. Straight talking is the only way.

Completely agree.

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Hey, cav, I've been visiting the basement of the forums and have come across the "ignore users" thingy. So, I thought I would play with it to see how it worked. I blacklisted some of the inane high-pitched querulous yammers and, heck, the forums suddenly are somehow worth something. You do lose a bit of the amusement, though. Odd thing. The only itch here is that the ignore option is not as clean as it could be, you know what I mean? Anyway, I'll see which way I decide to go...

A driver we like is outspoken, not a PR drone, and tells things the way they are.

A driver we don't like is not a team player, is arrogant and should just shut the **** up and drive.

Good point, the first.

The second is untraceable.

:lol:

Well that's very interesting if the wing allocation was made by Marko and/or Mateschitz, two German-speakers. I've always said Vettel was over-rated - sure he's a fast driver but he's not beaten Webber very convincingly, and Webber isn't one of the best imho. Vettel makes even more mistakes than Fernando. It's quite amazing what has been said in public during this spat but, in the end, Webber isn't quite as 'passionate' as Alonso (no doubt this is part of why the Spaniard is a much better driver) so it's unlikely to degenerate to the level of McLaren in 2007.

It can't "degenerate to the level of McLaren in 2007" because _NOW_ there is favoritism and it is based on nationality. Nothing like McLaren where there was no favoritism and nationality had nothing to do with anything.

It's the same with FIA really. Does it matter that FIA is owned in every respect that matters by a Brit? _NOT_AT_ALL_. Does it matter that the race misdirector is a Brit? _NOT_AT_ALL_.

No, no. The RBR situation is _clearly_ something completely different from the other stuff which are _clearly_ 100% absolutely honest organizations and people. To claim otherwise is conspiracy theory stuff. Speculation on the mismanagement of RBR, on the other hand, will never be a conspiracy theory, regardless.

Yawn... alternatively, the RBR situation is being blown out of proportion as I said elsewhere and for the motives I said elsewhere.

EDIT: Response to Honorable Quiet one.

Edited by maure

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Some headlines today stating Webber will re-evaluate his decision to sign with RBR for 2011. I don't think he's too bright if you ask me, yes he's an ok driver, but he's not in the top 3-5 out there today. So because of pride and not wanting to actually be a professional and act accordingly, he's made statements that not only is he prepared to go all out with Vettel, but his team if need be as well. Now that won't go down well in all levels of the team and I've read that his own crew are not happy with him.

And in all of this, Vettel has actually been pretty calm and kept his words to himself. A little ironic when alot of people are calling him overated, immature and all. I think he's done well really. Vettel ever since he's been in F1 has been one of the most honest drivers I've seen when interviewed. He apologises when he makes a mistake both to his team, to the other driver and also publicly. Clearly if there are problems at RBR, I don't think they are coming from Vettel, let's put it that way.

I won't be sorry to see Webber go if he tells his story walking. Good riddance if you ask me. He's still in a fantastic car, and in with a chance to win races, maybe even the WDC. I don't buy for a second he wasn't aware that RBR had long term plans for Vettel and wanted to see him succeed. He's got to lose the chip off his shoulder and just get on with things. I mean I expect this sort of behaviour from Rubens, or Alonso and Hamilton, but Webber is clearly thinking with a big head here. It's not like Webbers going to be around for much longer anyway, and apart from this year and last had done f#ck all in F1.

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Well what exactly should Vettel say then? If nothing?

"Yes they should have given me the wing because I am the hot dog golden boy with a redbull can on my head....."

He is saying nothing because if he does, he'll come off looking like a spoilt git.

I guess all of those here saying that Webber is a noddy for saying what he did would obviously never ever ever ever in the lives and on their grandmothers grave, never say something like that if you were put in the same situation.

Stones. Glasshouses. Kettles. Pots.

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It's not like Hakkinens going to be around for much longer anyway, and apart from this year and last had done f#ck all in F1.

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well you can all rant and rave about what is right/wrong within the team, the pure fact of the matter is that Weber sure was unhappy come Qualy finish time and just laid it on the line and showed em all at RBR that he is a race car driver, added also was his either very well rehearsed or maybe instant response to the radio message on the slowing down lap, which to me just "Said it all" about what he was thinking and being an Aussie he just told em straight up front, bugger what the consequences may be later :clap3:

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After all the complaining here, it is clear the real fault was RBR not having enough parts and the big cheeses making a decision on whom to support to 100% based on potential, points and speed. Vettel simply had a small edge on Webber at the time and combined with the fact that Webber did not think the new wing did anything. It came down to principal, which, again, discussion of that should have been within the team. Webber is well paid to drive for RBR, he is not paying RBR or having to bring a sponsor like other moving chicanes out there, so he needs to think about that instead of his ego. In the end, it is RBR money, and they decide what they want, not the drivers. If Webber wishes to continue to bitch in public, he should be offerred to throw out his contract and leave, that will be the final decision. He will then sit down, shut up and drive. A simple dose of reality can correct this situation quickly.

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Some headlines today stating Webber will re-evaluate his decision to sign with RBR for 2011. I don't think he's too bright if you ask me, yes he's an ok driver, but he's not in the top 3-5 out there today. So because of pride and not wanting to actually be a professional and act accordingly, he's made statements that not only is he prepared to go all out with Vettel, but his team if need be as well. Now that won't go down well in all levels of the team and I've read that his own crew are not happy with him.

And in all of this, Vettel has actually been pretty calm and kept his words to himself. A little ironic when alot of people are calling him overated, immature and all. I think he's done well really. Vettel ever since he's been in F1 has been one of the most honest drivers I've seen when interviewed. He apologises when he makes a mistake both to his team, to the other driver and also publicly. Clearly if there are problems at RBR, I don't think they are coming from Vettel, let's put it that way.

I won't be sorry to see Webber go if he tells his story walking. Good riddance if you ask me. He's still in a fantastic car, and in with a chance to win races, maybe even the WDC. I don't buy for a second he wasn't aware that RBR had long term plans for Vettel and wanted to see him succeed. He's got to lose the chip off his shoulder and just get on with things. I mean I expect this sort of behaviour from Rubens, or Alonso and Hamilton, but Webber is clearly thinking with a big head here. It's not like Webbers going to be around for much longer anyway, and apart from this year and last had done f#ck all in F1.

****ing arrogant aussie

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Horner would only be silly if you aqaute the wing decision to be originating from him. Most of what I've read leads to it coming from above him, which would take us to Marko or Mateschitz. Vettel isn't overated, he's just no matured yet as a racer. He's fast, but has lots to learn.

:lol:

Well that's very interesting if the wing allocation was made by Marko and/or Mateschitz, two German-speakers. I've always said Vettel was over-rated - sure he's a fast driver but he's not beaten Webber very convincingly, and Webber isn't one of the best imho. Vettel makes even more mistakes than Fernando. It's quite amazing what has been said in public during this spat but, in the end, Webber isn't quite as 'passionate' as Alonso (no doubt this is part of why the Spaniard is a much better driver) so it's unlikely to degenerate to the level of McLaren in 2007.

Sorry...conspiracy incorrect, at least according to this guy called Christian...

“There has never been any pressure from Red Bull to favour one driver over the other,” Horner told The Telegraph. “I didn’t have a conversation with Helmut (Marko, team advisor) or anyone from Red Bull regarding the decision to give Sebastian the wing - it was purely a technical decision, which I discussed with Adrian (Newey, Chief Designer).

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Hey KIMI, could you fit a few F1 races into your WRC schedule? Nice fast car available probably soon....

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****ing arrogant aussie

:D haha...and that coming from a South African....lol

Of all us under the equator, I would have thought that a South African would have understood the true undertone of what Mark said in the car, and what it meant.

Are you the real Brad??? :P

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Hey KIMI, could you fit a few F1 races into your WRC schedule? Nice fast car available probably soon....

Yeah, that Vettel dude will be out of a drive soon enough...he's Sh#t.

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:D haha...and that coming from a South African....lol

Of all us under the equator, I would have thought that a South African would have understood the true undertone of what Mark said in the car, and what it meant.

Are you the real Brad??? :P

sorry to disappoint, yes, the real Brad.

I'm inclined to side more with the upper side of the equater , it's better....Starting with Steve Waugh's cricket team(this guy was beyond arrogant) right thru to their rugby team, the similiarities are frightingly the same... This australian driver seems to be in the same mold and too daft to realise the consequences of it.

Perception is a hard thing to change...

We South Africans love the Kiwi's though, and there's no finer person than our resident aussie Nathan though, an exemplary young man

Edited by BradSpeedMan

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Hey KIMI, could you fit a few F1 races into your WRC schedule? Nice fast car available probably soon....

Hahaha.

Yes, the '08 Ferrari was pretty fast too and yet he didn't do much with that.

He should stay in rally and keep bending Citroens around trees.

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Brad. Its cute when you lose it!

Calmed yet? ;)

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Good arguments all around, but I wouldn't have given Seb Mark's wing. Teams are funny in that they expect all their employees to sacrifice for the sake of the team but forget that there is a drivers championship going on as well...and that forcing a driver to sacrifice something to a competitor in that championship is wrong. There is a certain lack of respect for the driver's championship that happens inside the heads of team principals.

Both drivers are given the same equipment. If one driver breaks their equipment or it breaks of it's own accord, the team should either replace that component from a spare or slap on an old component. Taking a bit from one competitor and giving it to another competitor may make sense to the team, but it's screwing with the driver's championship.

Good on Mark for telling Red Bull, both on-track and off, that they were wrong. I hope it sinks in.

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...I wouldn't have given Seb Mark's wing.

Yep. It was an unnecessary move. Too brutish for the timing of the championship and the state of affairs.

Good on Mark for telling Red Bull, both on-track and off, that they were wrong. I hope it sinks in.

Sure. It's cool that Webber spoke his mind... but I think it will back fire even more than it already has, you know, with all the English press (and miscellanea violent mob) harassing and more RBR.

These goofs are even calling Vettel "inexperienced"... and these are the very same people that crowned Hamilton "the best driver in F1 history" after he had driven less than 10 races.

Amusing.

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Yep. It was an unnecessary move. Too brutish for the timing of the championship and the state of affairs.

Sure. It's cool that Webber spoke his mind... but I think it will back fire even more than it already has, you know, with all the English press (and miscellanea violent mob) harassing and more RBR.

These goofs are even calling Vettel "inexperienced"... and these are the very same people that crowned Hamilton "the best driver in F1 history" after he had driven less than 10 races.

Amusing.

Agreed.

This will come back to haunt Webber. He was not acting professional towards his employers. Many times in sports things don't go peoples way, or they loose etc. Some throw a fit and others conduct themselves with class. Often that endears them more in the public's eyes. As far as Webber goes, it's more than annoying to say, oh he's just an Aussie and telling it like it is. He was born in Australia, but is more British than people realise. Why should his country of birth suddenly allow him to act like an asshat, be disrespectful to his employers, and carry on like an amateur. It shouldn't.

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Agreed.

This will come back to haunt Webber. He was not acting professional towards his employers. Many times in sports things don't go peoples way, or they loose etc. Some throw a fit and others conduct themselves with class. Often that endears them more in the public's eyes. As far as Webber goes, it's more than annoying to say, oh he's just an Aussie and telling it like it is. He was born in Australia, but is more British than people realise. Why should his country of birth suddenly allow him to act like an asshat, be disrespectful to his employers, and carry on like an amateur. It shouldn't.

Why not be disrespectful towards his employers? Why should we care? I am not his employer. I am actually one of the most "disrespectful" in my company towards my employers and, although sometimes treated like a pariah, I am also one of the two sole survivors after seven years of continuous "downsizing" and "rightsizing". I still have my job and, above all, my dignity.

Employers are no slave owners. They deserve only as much respect as they deal. We are all human beings born equal. In my country getting fired is a rather dramatic ocurrence as jobs are not exactly something you can easily find and, when you are past 25 years old, it is almost suicidal to get fired unless you are already a manager or higher. But I reject to be humiliated for fear of losing my job. I am a free man and so will be until the day I die.

And **** the management! :P

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These goofs are even calling Vettel "inexperienced"... and these are the very same people that crowned Hamilton "the best driver in F1 history" after he had driven less than 10 races.

I don't remember Vettel being helped by a crane. I don't remember Webber accusing Red Bull of fixing a race twice. That was fine in 2007 but now is a ****ing drama. It is so good F1 in 2010, Todt is doing marvels at the FIA. Or something. I think.

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When did Webber accuse someone of fixing a race? :huh:

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