rodders47

Not Bad For A No. 2 Driver

67 posts in this topic

When did Webber accuse someone of fixing a race? huh.gif

Good question, mate.

I rephrase it: I haven't heard Webber accusing Red Bull of fixing a race and even less accusing Red Bull of fixing two races.

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Why not be disrespectful towards his employers? Why should we care? I am not his employer. I am actually one of the most "disrespectful" in my company towards my employers and, although sometimes treated like a pariah, I am also one of the two sole survivors after seven years of continuous "downsizing" and "rightsizing". I still have my job and, above all, my dignity.

Employers are no slave owners. They deserve only as much respect as they deal. We are all human beings born equal. In my country getting fired is a rather dramatic ocurrence as jobs are not exactly something you can easily find and, when you are past 25 years old, it is almost suicidal to get fired unless you are already a manager or higher. But I reject to be humiliated for fear of losing my job. I am a free man and so will be until the day I die.

And **** the management! :P

By all means your approach to your work environment works for you, and only you would know that based on your life. But as far as professional sports goes, I think it's a little different.

For Webber, I mean seriously he drives 19 races a year for untold millions of dollars. He's not working a late shift, 2 jobs and holding down a mortgage by the skin of his pants. He's paid ridiculously well compared to what he actually does. So in his case I would think he should be concerned about being respectful to his employers. Talk about biting the hand that feeds him. He can go on all he likes, but when he ends up in Hispania next year, that one brain cell he's got left might have a little cry.

Many teams have shown faith in Webber over the years despite his lack of results. I mean how many times before he won a race had we heard about his 5th place in a Minardi all those years ago, and wondering why he hadn't even been able to match that. These same teams including RBR backed him despite this.

Apart from probably Alonso or Hamilton, I imagine the whole grid would have jumped at the chance to be in a RBR for this year and next. Webber's being an arogant a## because he is winning races and things are going good. When they start going bad, then he'll finally realise he's made a meal of it.

Can you guys imagine Vettel carrying on like this? He's no doubt still green and learning to tame his speed, but from all accounts he seems a pretty respectful guy. The kind of guy his crew would have no problems working all night to fix a car, or replace something. Webber is only alienating himself at the moment and that spells trouble. You only have to look a the Toro Rosso over the past couple of years to see the Speed and Bourdais dramas to see the team will always win. What they want, they will get and I can't believe Webber can't see that.

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For Webber, I mean seriously he drives 19 races a year for untold millions of dollars. He's not working a late shift, 2 jobs and holding down a mortgage by the skin of his pants. He's paid ridiculously well compared to what he actually does. So in his case I would think he should be concerned about being respectful to his employers. Talk about biting the hand that feeds him. He can go on all he likes, but when he ends up in Hispania next year, that one brain cell he's got left might have a little cry.

I don't know if it's at all possible but I agree with both you and Quiet One.

My problem is about many people, and many journalists (most of them well known F1 journalists), having a completely different POV in 2007. Respect? Did they ask Hamilton for respect to his team and teammate after Monaco 2007? Hungaroring 2007? There's nothing they can say about RBR, Vettel and Webber when they would keep it quiet if McLaren gave Hamilton a Button's new set of option tyres, they would keep it quiet if Hamilton accused McLaren of fixing a race or two...

Edit: perfectionism kills

Edited by AleHop

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By all means your approach to your work environment works for you, and only you would know that based on your life. But as far as professional sports goes, I think it's a little different.

For Webber, I mean seriously he drives 19 races a year for untold millions of dollars. He's not working a late shift, 2 jobs and holding down a mortgage by the skin of his pants. He's paid ridiculously well compared to what he actually does. So in his case I would think he should be concerned about being respectful to his employers. Talk about biting the hand that feeds him. He can go on all he likes, but when he ends up in Hispania next year, that one brain cell he's got left might have a little cry.

Many teams have shown faith in Webber over the years despite his lack of results. I mean how many times before he won a race had we heard about his 5th place in a Minardi all those years ago, and wondering why he hadn't even been able to match that. These same teams including RBR backed him despite this.

Apart from probably Alonso or Hamilton, I imagine the whole grid would have jumped at the chance to be in a RBR for this year and next. Webber's being an arogant a## because he is winning races and things are going good. When they start going bad, then he'll finally realise he's made a meal of it.

Can you guys imagine Vettel carrying on like this? He's no doubt still green and learning to tame his speed, but from all accounts he seems a pretty respectful guy. The kind of guy his crew would have no problems working all night to fix a car, or replace something. Webber is only alienating himself at the moment and that spells trouble. You only have to look a the Toro Rosso over the past couple of years to see the Speed and Bourdais dramas to see the team will always win. What they want, they will get and I can't believe Webber can't see that.

What EXACTLY was SO BAD that Webber said?

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What EXACTLY was SO BAD that Webber said?

Nobody should speak and have an opinion for themselves. We should all conform to rules in this perfect society. Did you not know this already. Jeez man!

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This is all about putting down markers. In fact competitive racing in a nutshell is about putting down markers, showing to the world where the line is to be drawn. I can't blame Webber for his public outburst after winning the race. Whether it be on the race track or in the dealings and your status within a team, markers must be put down to show others that there will be consequences to their actions. If you give an inch or show any weakness on the race track your fate and reputation are sealed; it's the same behind the scenes.

If Webber had grudingly accepted that his wing had been given to Vettel but kept his feelings private and behind closed doors, then it is more likely that he will receive similar treatment in the future and be expected to accept the given situation. It might be a team sport but you're really working for yourself, putting yourself in the shop window to make yourself a good choice for selection by the others teams come the inevitable spilt. Webber is not loosing anything here. If he accepts, he's sunk; if he fights back, he's got a chance.

The team favour Vettel for the championship, if Webber speaks his mind publicly and the team don't like it, so what! They obviously don't think much of him in the first place to take parts from your car and put them on your rivals. Speak up and shame them, use the media to your advantage if you can, use anything and everything at your disposal to get the best for yourself. What have you got to loose. If you leave things as they are and do everything behind closed doors, all that's going to happen is that you don't win the championship!? Eh! So what's the problem. You might not be popular within the team for a few months but a least you can sleep at night. Barrichello took the quiet approach and all it did was line his pockets. If that's what you want, then keep schtum. This is Webber's first, and possibly only, chance at the championship. I'm sure he realises this and so his options are limited if he really wants the big prize.

Bring on Germany

Tchau.

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Nobody should speak and have an opinion for themselves. We should all conform to rules in this perfect society. Did you not know this already. Jeez man!

Or...

Nobody actually has an opinion, not that this prevents them from speaking. We are all to be perfect in this society of rules and "should's". You know this already. Hug?

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This is all about putting down markers. In fact competitive racing in a nutshell is about putting down markers, showing to the world where the line is to be drawn. I can't blame Webber for his public outburst after winning the race. Whether it be on the race track or in the dealings and your status within a team, markers must be put down to show others that there will be consequences to their actions. If you give an inch or show any weakness on the race track your fate and reputation are sealed; it's the same behind the scenes.

If Webber had grudingly accepted that his wing had been given to Vettel but kept his feelings private and behind closed doors, then it is more likely that he will receive similar treatment in the future and be expected to accept the given situation. It might be a team sport but you're really working for yourself, putting yourself in the shop window to make yourself a good choice for selection by the others teams come the inevitable spilt. Webber is not loosing anything here. If he accepts, he's sunk; if he fights back, he's got a chance.

The team favour Vettel for the championship, if Webber speaks his mind publicly and the team don't like it, so what! They obviously don't think much of him in the first place to take parts from your car and put them on your rivals. Speak up and shame them, use the media to your advantage if you can, use anything and everything at your disposal to get the best for yourself. What have you got to loose. If you leave things as they are and do everything behind closed doors, all that's going to happen is that you don't win the championship!? Eh! So what's the problem. You might not be popular within the team for a few months but a least you can sleep at night. Barrichello took the quiet approach and all it did was line his pockets. If that's what you want, then keep schtum. This is Webber's first, and possibly only, chance at the championship. I'm sure he realises this and so his options are limited if he really wants the big prize.

Bring on Germany

Tchau.

"This is all about putting down markers." Quite true, quite. Good post.

There lays the problem with double, triple, and quadruple standards. All want the "special markers" though most are given the "put down" ones.

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This is all about putting down markers. In fact competitive racing in a nutshell is about putting down markers, showing to the world where the line is to be drawn. I can't blame Webber for his public outburst after winning the race. Whether it be on the race track or in the dealings and your status within a team, markers must be put down to show others that there will be consequences to their actions. If you give an inch or show any weakness on the race track your fate and reputation are sealed; it's the same behind the scenes.

If Webber had grudingly accepted that his wing had been given to Vettel but kept his feelings private and behind closed doors, then it is more likely that he will receive similar treatment in the future and be expected to accept the given situation. It might be a team sport but you're really working for yourself, putting yourself in the shop window to make yourself a good choice for selection by the others teams come the inevitable spilt. Webber is not loosing anything here. If he accepts, he's sunk; if he fights back, he's got a chance.

The team favour Vettel for the championship, if Webber speaks his mind publicly and the team don't like it, so what! They obviously don't think much of him in the first place to take parts from your car and put them on your rivals. Speak up and shame them, use the media to your advantage if you can, use anything and everything at your disposal to get the best for yourself. What have you got to loose. If you leave things as they are and do everything behind closed doors, all that's going to happen is that you don't win the championship!? Eh! So what's the problem. You might not be popular within the team for a few months but a least you can sleep at night. Barrichello took the quiet approach and all it did was line his pockets. If that's what you want, then keep schtum. This is Webber's first, and possibly only, chance at the championship. I'm sure he realises this and so his options are limited if he really wants the big prize.

Bring on Germany

Tchau.

+ 1. Exactly.

We moan when drivers moan, we moan when they do the corporate thing (say nothing). Mark spoke out, and with Horner knowing him so well, I'll bet he's not surprised Mark spoke out.

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Just a typical Aussie speaking his mind clap3.gif . Bloody well done Mark, you showed em all at Silverstone clap3.gif

I am a Webber fan, he will always be No 1, Vettel needs to control himself and grow up. I used to have a lot of respect for Christian Horner but he seems to be a yes man for Marko, pity really. Red Bull have an amazing car and two great drivers, why not go with Mark as he is proving to be the better driver. Vettel has plenty of time to get a championship under his belt and I'm sure he will. I just hope all this stupid airing of feeling is sorted out before Germany and they get on with the job in hand WINNING!!!!

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Brad. Its cute when you lose it!

Calmed yet? ;)

ah, listening to the carpenters are you, lovely music, sad thing about the sister that died, the first of the big stars that became too image concious and died of anorexia, sad for such a beautiful lady

Edited by BradSpeedMan

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Well apparently Webber has modified his tone and apologized. Vettel noted that any decension should be handled internally and not out in public. Reality sets in and few know what really happened behind closed doors. He may well have been handed the opportunity to tear up his new contract and leave.....to who knows where.....or stay and have a good opportunity to win more grand prixs and a championship. RBR made it clear thru Nick Fry that the drivers do not run the team, so it may have been the reality wake-up call everyone needed. I doubt any more laundry will be aired in public with RBR, as there will likely be consequences.

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Well i'm glad Webber made a comment that the public all heard - its entertainment for us isn't it!

Vettel had a new wing, Webber had a new wing, and Vettel's broke. Unlucky Vettel - or at least thats how it should have been.

I dont think Webber's being a whiner, Alonso sets the standard for whining about things & Webber isnt the same as that. Vettel's a good guy but Webber now has a big fan-base in UK who want to see him win more to beat Christian Horner than to beat Vettel!

Horner said they'd made a 'championship decision', & Vettel was only about 12 points ahead of Webber going into silverstone. So, my opinion is, a load of balls

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There was that news snippet a few days back on how Webber didn't even like the new wing anyway. If there's an ounce of truth to that, then for Webber he didn't actually care about the wing, but rather his perceived treatment by the team.

Regardless of Webber's apology he's very lucky to still be there. RBR and when they ran TR are ruthless and will dispatch a driver if there's cause. Look at the carnage from their young racing program and you'll only see how lucky Webber is. Klein, Luizzi, Hartley, Speed, Bourdais... there will be more added to that list.

Time for some racing and I hope the end of any crap coming from Webber. Vettel never aired anything in public which is rare these days for a driver as they all seem to a one point have a dig at their team. Still seen nothing as good as the Rubens days at BAR and Brawn, or Alonso in his pre McLaren Renault lol.

Edited by KoolMonkey

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Webber has 2-3 seasons left and is finally in a car that can win races. He has a contract for next year. It's fine to show that he is not going to play second fiddle to Vettel. His outburst lead to the statement from the team that when the situation arises, they are going to favor the one leading on points. In his case I guess it means that as long as he is leading he can at least count on equal terms. Who knows, maybe Webber can win the championship this year and then move to Mercedes for next year. Of course I am by no means insinuating Webber's responses were by any means calculated, I just don't thing it came out that bad for him.

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Yes, the '08 Ferrari was pretty fast too and yet he didn't do much with that.

He should stay in rally and keep bending Citroens around trees.

Lol at this ^^

It's been reported today that RBR have said that if there is a new part available for only 1 car, Webber will get it, as he is ahead of Vettel.

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