German Gp Of Deutschlandenhausen

[Schumikonen 2]

first read their posts and ask them to have the decency to talk one on one.....

don't want to argue...

I have voiced my opinion and I will move on.looking out for the next race..I am certainly not like Maure of Alehop who would bring back the subjects that are as old as their grandma...

She is reading waht she wants between selected lines, just look that she knows what we said but not who won the race and is was also posted so...

[Schumikonen 2]

Steph, I think considering the stupid conspiracies that other member's spit out I think it's reasonable you get some reaction from Tommy and Shaliq by what happened today....

Thank you, Brad.

[wapi 4]

Ferrari team orders on this race is another proof that Domenicali is not capable to be team boss. They should have kept Massa in the pit 2 sec longer or should have told him that his engine telemetry does look good... It is question if anyone would recognize that as team orders and certainly fuss would be much smaller.

[Quiet One 15]

Come on you know what I mean!

Yep, Alonso said "I dont know what happened" when explaining why Massa was slower on the exit of the hairpin when he passed him. So, Alonso is clearly willing to tell straight lies to the media now.

In response to Maure, I wouldnt say mclaren are the only team who have never used team orders - rather that Ferrari are the only team who WOULD use a team order as blatanly as that. The strategies with Kovalainen were your perception at the time cos it seemed u were desperate to show Hamilton was unfairly beating his team-mate, but no-one at the time in F1 ever mentioned anything of the sort (from my memory at least). And I just dont buy that a team would deliberately give their own a driver a bad strategy, thats just ridiculous. There are meetings/briefings to decide strategy, millions of pounds spent, hours spent, & even since leaving McLaren Heikki hasnt said anything negative. Its your opinion and thats fair enough, but Mclaren 2007-2009 is a lot different to what we've seen today, which is just a clear & simple "move over and let your team-mate win"

First bolded bit: I agree 100%.

Second bolded bit: Today in the last stages JB was closing in very fast on Lewis and he was told to "save fuel", something I am sure he had more than plenty, compared with LH, considering how they usually drive, and this hasn't been the first time. So, I don't think they don't hvae team orders, is just that they are more polite at issuing them

[Jem of the Shire 0]

First bolded bit: I agree 100%.

Second bolded bit: Today in the last stages JB was closing in very fast on Lewis and he was told to "save fuel", something I am sure he had more than plenty, compared with LH, considering how they usually drive, and this hasn't been the first time. So, I don't think they don't hvae team orders, is just that they are more polite at issuing them

Yea in that situation its just impossible to know, but at least its not 'interfering with the result' because JB may not have passed Hamilton anyway.

The rule is that you cant issue a team order that interferes with the result - and thats precisely what Ferrari did today.

[Quiet One 15]

Yea in that situation its just impossible to know, but at least its not 'interfering with the result' because JB may not have passed Hamilton anyway.

The rule is that you cant issue a team order that interferes with the result - and thats precisely what Ferrari did today.

Sadly, we agree on that.

On the other hand, it is fun to see everybody else rushing to "purify themselves" using Ferrari foolishness as an excuse. While waiting for the post race conference transcript to show up, I read some interesting comments.

Horner: "We let our drivers race" *cough cough*

[Abbo 0]

Ferrari International Aid will come to the opinion that Alonso was quicker than Massa and thereby entitled to overtake him. This will stop Alonso from throwing his toys out of the pram. Jeezzz what a bent race.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Another ferrari team member lying to the press - not sure his name, fat italian guy who sits on the pitwall (not stefano!), said they informed the drivers that Alonso was faster & it was Massa's decision to move over.

This was on the BBC 'f1 forum' for UK viewers. Ferrari really must think we're all incredibly stupid.

Red Bull giving Vettel Webber's front wing was wrong but at least they didn't try & cover it up with lies etc

[AleHop 0]

Ferrari team orders on this race is another proof that Domenicali is not capable to be team boss. They should have kept Massa in the pit 2 sec longer or should have told him that his engine telemetry does look good... It is question if anyone would recognize that as team orders and certainly fuss would be much smaller.

Why do you always have a go at Domenicalli? And I'm not his biggest fan.

First, at the pit-stop it wasn't too clear that Ferrari would get a 1-2. Second, it wasn't clear that Alonso would be quite faster than Massa during the race. If they had done what you say and Vettel had won the race you would say just the same thing about Domenicalli, or something even worse.

They probably told Massa to save fuel or any other subtle message like a thrillion times. Are you sure Montezemolo didn't phone to say something once it was clear the 1-2 was in their pocket. I don't think you can put the blame on Domenicalli alone.

[Kopite Girl 0]

Steph, I think considering the stupid conspiracies that other member's spit out I think it's reasonable you get some reaction from Tommy and Shaliq by what happened today....

Not interested in reaction, Brad. Where did I say not to react.

Reacting's fine. Directly is even better, as you and I do.

Week after week is the same old. Maybe we should hire out TF1 a boxing ring.

[Kopite Girl 0]

She is reading waht she wants between selected lines, just look that she knows what we said but not who won the race and is was also posted so...

I read it quite clearly. You were being a bitch. Its that simple.

Now be nice before I give you extra homework and detention after class.

I have to say this. You haven't a clue how Maure is. If you took the time to get to know him you'd find one of the kindest, honest and most decent humans on the planet. I'm sure you are too. And I am not kidding when I tell you that. On the bible.

[Quiet One 15]

Why do you always have a go at Domenicalli? And I'm not his biggest fan.

First, at the pit-stop it wasn't too clear that Ferrari would get a 1-2. Second, it wasn't clear that Alonso would be quite faster than Massa during the race. If they had done what you say and Vettel had won the race you would say just the same thing about Domenicalli, or something even worse.

They probably told Massa to save fuel or any other subtle message like a thrillion times. Are you sure Montezemolo didn't phone to say something once it was clear the 1-2 was in their pocket. I don't think you can put the blame on Domenicalli alone.

Domenicalli is the guy at the top, so he is the main culprit. Other than that, here's my theory fwiw: he pressured Smedley to give the order to Massa. Rob, being Massa's most loyal ally, probably worded it in the most obvious manner possible not so much as for Massa to get it, but as to make clear that he did not agree. Massa acted the same way blatantly giving the place to Alonso. In the end, it all goes back to Domenicalli, if he wanted Massa to move over, he should have issued the order himself, or let the guys race. No championship is worth this.

Now, the FIA might have no arguments to consider this as a blatant team order (if they decide to stick to the cold wording of the rules), but it is still a shameful spot (yet another) in Ferrari's history. I'd rather had Alonso losing to Massa than watch him winning this way. As usual in these cases, Napoleon's words come to mind: "It was worse than a crime, it was a blunder"

[YHR 0]

I disapprove of what I saw today. Alonso fans should be ashamed of this outcome, and make no mistake Alonso wanted this gift, and demanded it.

Massa is a good driver and a great Human being. Without doubt one of the classiest guys on the track. He made no doubt about what transpired on the track. Alonso tried feeding us a line of BS, shame on him. You are not good enough to pass Massa on the track, so you let your contract do it for you.

All emotions aside this was the best result for the team. They still got 1& 2 and the driver with the highest points standing between the two got awarded the win(Contract stipulation no doubt)

I learned to hate Schumacher for this very thing, and now Alonso can be painted with the same brush. The honor of racing is F1 is lost with results like this.

Because Alonso finshed 4 seconds in front, the steward will have to concede that Alonso was faster, and nothing will be done. However, saying your sorry means you did someting wrong, and that might get ferrari in a pile of hot water. I guess we will see.

If you are an Alonso fan you might want to lay low. From a fan perspective this is does nothing for Alonso except help him lose respect. I was an Alonso fan and I do think he is a great driver, but his ridiculus comments on the radio when he didn't have the race skill to pass Massa, and then his feeble attempt of FM making a mistake to allow him to pass is just sad.

What was going to be a great race and a battle of team mates, turned in to a sad display of "team orders".

Maybe it would be good for the FIA to take points away from Ferrai.

If Massa is a waste of a Ferrari seat, as some claim ,what the heck does that make Alonso. It appears if Massa has the defense skills to hold off a double world Champion. I thought Massa was brilliant today. Defending his position until the car played back to him, and then pulled out a commanding lead. No way in a fair fight was Alonso going to get by Massa today.

Well Done Massa. One more race and one more classy example of being a paid professional. Let the act speak for itself, don't throw crap at your team mate or team. Your value as a team driver and man are without equal in today's F1.

[Kopite Girl 0]

Alonso won and JB ended up behind Lewis in 5th.

You cruel man, laughing at my blackout. I threw my shoe in anger and ended up breaking the lampshade.

Thanks dude for the info.

[Quiet One 15]

You cruel man, laughing at my blackout. I threw my shoe in anger and ended up breaking the lampshade.

Thanks dude for the info.

Don't worry, local broadcasting missed precisely the part were Alonso overtook Massa (darn TV ads), so I spent at least 5 minutes trying to understand wtf was going on.

Not to mention past races that I watched online because my cable signal was being denied again and again by bureaucratic issues. Try to watch a whole race in chinese, with lag and an image quality comparable to that of a nintendo gameboy, only to miss the most interesting bits because the feed suddenly is down and you will understand what frustration is really about!

BTW: Ferrari summoned by stewards...here we go!

[Jean Todt 4]

She is reading waht she wants between selected lines, just look that she knows what we said but not who won the race and is was also posted so...

May be she did read....clearly the guys on the opposite side are her friends and ofcourse as a friend she stands by them....she is their friend after all...

[Jean Todt 4]

I didn't expect this from Smedley!! "“I don’t expect any penalties whatsoever because Alonso was just faster and Massa made a small mistake when shifting up three gears at once,” Smedley told

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/239665/smedley-not-expecting-alonso-penalty/

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Ferrari summoned by stewards? Ah good! If they're DQ'd I may even buy a chocolate bar to celebrate

[Quiet One 15]

I didn't expect this from Smedley!! "“I don’t expect any penalties whatsoever because Alonso was just faster and Massa made a small mistake when shifting up three gears at once,” Smedley told

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/239665/smedley-not-expecting-alonso-penalty/

Yup, that disproves my theory that Rob was being smarter than his team management. Maybe they all actually thought that they could pull this out unharmed???

[Quiet One 15]

Ferrari summoned by stewards? Ah good! If they're DQ'd I may even buy a chocolate bar to celebrate

You savage party animal, you!

[YHR 0]

You know I don't think Ferrai are worthy of having a guy like Massa drive for them. They totally screwed up his champoinship drive a couple of years ago with their incompetence and now they do this to him. Maybe it will be FM that want's out of this contract. They owed him something, and yes I guess they gave him a two year contract, but man outside of that, they have done nothing but crap in his cornflakes.

All I hope is Massa is back and he makes it hard for Ferrari for the rest of the year.

Sad thing poor FM is going to be dragged into the crap pile when the stewards start asking questions. He tells the truth and Ferrai is stripped of the win, and then he is done with Ferrari. Or he tells a lie to protect the team, and lowers himself to the scum that are all around him there.

I feel for the nice guy from Brazil.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

I didn't expect this from Smedley!! "“I don’t expect any penalties whatsoever because Alonso was just faster and Massa made a small mistake when shifting up three gears at once,” Smedley told

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/239665/smedley-not-expecting-alonso-penalty/

I dont normally trust crappy F1 websites (& since when was sky sports German??) but if Smedley did say that, then thats 3 liars now, and they're inevitably going to come unstuck in the stewards' investigation cos they're all trying to tell various lies & someone is bound to slip up when posed with a clever question.

[Jean Todt 4]

I still think Massa could have kept Alonso at his bay (thats just my opinion)....because in the past despite the fact that he had slower cars I has always been able to fight back for his position. If Alonso had overtaken him in a fair and square way I would have given two thumbs even though I don't like him.....

btw Today the both Mclaren drivers were so dull......

[Quiet One 15]

I dont normally trust crappy F1 websites (& since when was sky sports German??) but if Smedley did say that, then thats 3 liars now, and they're inevitably going to come unstuck in the stewards' investigation cos they're all trying to tell various lies & someone is bound to slip up when posed with a clever question.

You will have to include Massa in your count...

From Autosport:

Massa said he felt he deserved victory, but claimed he was thinking about the team.

"For sure you always want to win, that is always what we race for," he said. "For sure we don't have team orders in the team. You just do the race you can and if you cannot do the race you can you have to think about the team."

This is also a reply to YHR. This is Massa's chance to stand up. If that is his final word, then he chose the path of Rubinho.

All this just underlines how much dignity Webber had when he put his foot down on the wing issue.

[Jean Todt 4]

I dont normally trust crappy F1 websites (& since when was sky sports German??) but if Smedley did say that, then thats 3 liars now, and they're inevitably going to come unstuck in the stewards' investigation cos they're all trying to tell various lies & someone is bound to slip up when posed with a clever question.

Look who is trying to cash in!!!

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/239676/horner-the-clearest-team-order-i-ve-ever-seen/