KoolMonkey

I Guess That'S Finally It Then... Kimi Gone For Good :(

670 posts in this topic

@Brad, you are reading way too much between those lines. You still need to explain how a driver that was obviously overpaid by the end of last year would be a driver anybody would be in much of a hurry to hire. Specially Renault, as Gerard Lopez soon found that his partnerships with internet-related companies and such was not such a good strategy when Renault placed all their money in the Skype Banking System. They recon their penises have grown in the past semester, though, but the Renault management is not impressed.

:clap3:

If only atheist commie b#####ds knew that winding people up is a sin... The Lord prepareth a personal place for you in Hell.

I give you partial credit for that. I don't think F1 "needs" Kimi, we already have more than plenty of former WDCs. That being said, it is true that (as somebody, I think James Allen, pointed out) if one of the RBR drivers wins this year's WDC and Kimi comes back then we will have 6 WDCs and at least two WDC worthy drivers (the remaining RBR driver and Kubica) on the grid. Along with this season the younguns and newcomers will finally be able to say that they will witness an F1 era unlike any other in sports (just like we brag now about having watched the 60s, 70s, 80s)

Yeah Bradley's reply was a good one.

I actually prefer the brunette in red suit...yeah...Like her Mexican friend too....yep, the one with the violet tops...

oops...sorry, wrong forum.

Was this post supposed to make me think of Alonso and Massa? :P

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Oh, dear...

I didn't fling any insult at you and I could hardly put anything down on a personal level with you as, should you have bothered to read my posts with any kind common sense, you would have noticed that I am largely ignoring you or whatever are you discussing with so much heat. All I am doing is taking a light hearted p**s at Brad, who, being probably as passionate as you are about Kimi, is both a guy with a great sense of humor and certainly not paranoid. He knows I am by no means a Kimi hater (as everybody here told you a billion times, is hard to find something as a "Kimi hater" the same way that it is impossible to find a "Button hater", the guys just simply do not raise that kind of emotional response)

You could do a good Lewis/Alonso fan, though, I can offer you a place in our ranks.

And yes, now you can say that I got personal with you and quote this post to back your claims. I hope you also include this post of yours as a proof on how to go blindly attacking whoever posts in this thread.

All this making your comment about this thread "supposed to be light hearted" even more incongruent as it is light hearted for anybody except yourself who seem to be on a personal crusade against who know what, for frankly, my dear, we don't give a damn. ;)

Don't be trying the innocent act now, you Kimi hater you. I always knew when you were winding Brad up it was evidence of a deep routed evil.

What I do find funny, though, is if we drew a line down the centre of your head and then hung some corks on it you would look like an asshat :whistling::eekout:

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I've spent the past several months lurking on other F1 forums and you know what's missing from alot of then... snide remarks from asshats like yourself. People having fun discussing things, disagreeing but in a cordial manner. You, the best you can do is just put someone down, then get all p**sy because they don't see eye to eye with you. I'm not making posts about aliens, ufos or ghosts here. Nor about politics, abortions or gay marriage. All where talking about is F1 and the drivers who race or have raced. This is supposed to be light hearted. I don't care about your opinion to be honest, but if you fling insults and putdowns in my direction I take notice. You have every right to disagree with anything anyone says, but you have no right to put that person down on a personal level simply because you don't agree with their viewpoint.

@Brad I must be losing my touch. How come I used to try and wind you up and could never get a response like this out of you and yet Andres can do this when he's trying to be humorous?? :lol:

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Yes, as one of the most natural gifted drivers, it needs him. I guess 'm talking about talent, and the ability to compete with the best....

Yup. And I forgot to add Massa to the list of WDC-ish candidates. I fail to recall an era where so many potential WDCs in above midfield cars have raced together. All in all, this year and probably the next one are becoming a classic era, whether we realized it or not among our claims of boredom and processional races.

Then, when we get old (not you, George, you are already there :P) we will sit with our grandsons and tell them "you see, I recall when I was your age and watched the great legends of Formula 1 racing, that Golden Era with Petrov, and Liuzzi, and some others that have been forgotten but weren't actually that bad..."

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Renault can't pay Kimi's salary, which would likely include something to buy out his WRC contract.

It's a team desperate for headlines...and funding. They'll throw Kimi's name out there to generate publicity and get people thinking Renault are credible and attracting big names. Same reason they called Simona de Silvestro and offered her a test; they want the media attention, but have no interest in actually fielding her as a driver and taking a big hit in the WCC for it. The fact both are linked to Renault this week suggests the team is just trying to get some free marketing. It doesn't hurt Renault's image with fans to appear to be trying to lure a WDC back, or taking a risk on a driver with a sold fan-base in the United States and a large potential fan-base in Europe...and it doesn't hurt Renault's image with sponsors to appear to be trying to lure a WDC back, or taking a risk on a driver with a solid fan-base in the United States and a large potential fan-base in Europe. They aren't really after Kimi, and they certainly aren't after Simona for anything more than the PR a day of testing would bring. On top of that, they just want to add more pressure to Petrov, who performs quite well when someone's squeezing his nut (the government took the other).

They might ship Petrov off to Lotus with the engines, but they'll only do it if they get Sutil or another competent driver with funding. Paying two drivers is not going to happen and Kimi isn't free. Petrov and Sutil, however, have negative salary and unlike the others in that category, they can and will score points.

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I'm not so keen on the idea of Kimi coming back because he's not achieved anything fullfilling this year. All he's done is crash most times and find new ways of damaging his car. Understandably he's on a learning curve this year, because as I said earlier, WRC and F1 are two complete different types of racing. You can't just jump into a WRC car from coming out of F1 and expect to be winning.

As Loeb - the most successful rally driver of all time - has said, if he wants to get anywhere, he needs to stay in WRC next year. He's been learning and that knowledge will be valuable for him next year in rallying. Plus, with the new regs coming in to WRC from next year, it means everyone has to learn again. From the experience he's just got from the rallies, he could do quite well. If he just throws it all away, as I say, what has he really achieved this year apart from a lot of DNFs and solid-if-unspectacular results to his name? Plus, he's had no experience of driving an F1 car with full tanks, and will probably be on the back foot compared to everybody else because of that. If he's happy, fine, but it just smacks to me of a bit of a wasted year, when he could have still been in F1 probably.

Add into the mix Robert Kubica, a man who shows no signs of slowing down. If anything, quite the opposite. You could argue RK is a better driver than Massa now. That's the same Massa who, previous to his accident, had outclassed Raikkonen more times than Raikkonen had outclassed him. I don't buy what Lopez has been saying either, about Renault winning again. Sure, they are having a much better year than last season, but they couldn't really have done much worse. Is Renault a winning car? I don't see it, unless unusual circumstances occur.

I'm sure Kimi had plenty of opportunities to stay in F1 this year if he'd chosen them, but I believe even he admitted to saying that he didn't enjoy Formula One as much as he did to start with. He chose to throw that away and go rallying and try a new form of racing-fair dos.

We can't keep bringing back the same guys over and over. One day, there isn't going to be Alonso or Schumacher, etc, in the sport, and the sport is in desperate need of new blood. With the ridiculous regulations allowing young drivers next to no time in the cars, how is F1 going to get that new blood in? Sure, I was very happy when Schumi announced his come back, he was my favourite driver when I just started following the sport, but F1 can't keep recycling the same guys over and over. I don't think I'd be as happy to see Schumi make a third or fourth comeback. Just....leave it how is it.

The likes of Petrov, Hulkenberg, Kobayashi, etc, ARE the new blood. Sure, they might not be great now, but they are learning. Who's to say they WON'T be as good as Kimi was in a few years. None of us know that.

Edited by JHS

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Renault can't pay Kimi's salary, which would likely include something to buy out his WRC contract.

It's a team desperate for headlines...and funding. They'll throw Kimi's name out there to generate publicity and get people thinking Renault are credible and attracting big names. Same reason they called Simona de Silvestro and offered her a test; they want the media attention, but have no interest in actually fielding her as a driver and taking a big hit in the WCC for it. The fact both are linked to Renault this week suggests the team is just trying to get some free marketing. It doesn't hurt Renault's image with fans to appear to be trying to lure a WDC back, or taking a risk on a driver with a sold fan-base in the United States and a large potential fan-base in Europe...and it doesn't hurt Renault's image with sponsors to appear to be trying to lure a WDC back, or taking a risk on a driver with a solid fan-base in the United States and a large potential fan-base in Europe. They aren't really after Kimi, and they certainly aren't after Simona for anything more than the PR a day of testing would bring. On top of that, they just want to add more pressure to Petrov, who performs quite well when someone's squeezing his nut (the government took the other).

They might ship Petrov off to Lotus with the engines, but they'll only do it if they get Sutil or another competent driver with funding. Paying two drivers is not going to happen and Kimi isn't free. Petrov and Sutil, however, have negative salary and unlike the others in that category, they can and will score points.

I don't think so, as the rumours were about those contacts between Renault and Kimi were confirmed from Kimi's side as well. So perhaps Kimi wants genuinely to find a way back into F1 and thus resigning some money (I think they talk much about money but in the end they are not as conerned as they want us to think, or what we would like them to think...see Schumi for an example) No driver would throw away his money, but I don't think that any of them would sacrifice a career choice they like just because of a question of numbers. Schumi came back despite knowing that money would be nowhere near the figures he used to make. Alonso is now the new millionaire around the paddock, but he endured many years of puny contracts, even after his first WDC when compared to the likes of Schumi (of course), Barrichello and Kimi at that moment. Lewis is still today a real bargain for McLaren, etc.

Besides, Renault (the "real" Renault, not the facebook profile that Gerard Lopez owns) is still lurking around and may come back now that Lopez got it back into business. They could afford a Kimi, I am not sure what for, but they could (although they were never too generous).

So, even if I am skeptic about Kimi's chances or even actual willingness or convenience, it is still a possibility.

As for Petrov, the problem with him is not that he is not delivering as expected. I still think he is the rookie of the year despite his many mistakes. He has already shown that he accepts his mistakes (an uncommon trait nowadays), he is a fierce overtaker and very good at defensive driving. He is not too fast and can't make a good qualifying lap even at gunpoint, but he can improve.

The problem with Petrov is that, since the old Sovietic Union fell, his pit crew has divided between the Holy Islamic Pit Crew of the Right Side of the Car and the Kosher Messhuganah Republic of the Left Tires Pit Crew. They are engaged in a civil war trying to control the strategic gas tank and its oil reserves. Peter Windsor has joined forces with d#ck Cheney and want to disembark in the Renault Pit "to restore peace and sell them our exclusive USF1 chassis modeled on a soap bar" , but Petrov's Milf Manager Ivana Bigd#ckova threatened to retaliate. F1 politics and all that...

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All he's done is crash most times and find new ways of damaging his car.

And that differs from his F1 career because...? :whistling:

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The problem with Petrov is that, since the old Sovietic Union fell, his pit crew has divided between the Holy Islamic Pit Crew of the Right Side of the Car and the Kosher Messhuganah Republic of the Left Tires Pit Crew. They are engaged in a civil war trying to control the strategic gas tank and its oil reserves. Peter Windsor has joined forces with d#ck Cheney and want to disembark in the Renault Pit "to restore peace and sell them our exclusive USF1 chassis modeled on a soap bar" , but Petrov's Milf Manager Ivana Bigd#ckova threatened to retaliate. F1 politics and all that...

blink.gif

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I don't think so, as the rumours were about those contacts between Renault and Kimi were confirmed from Kimi's side as well. So perhaps Kimi wants genuinely to find a way back into F1 and thus resigning some money (I think they talk much about money but in the end they are not as conerned as they want us to think, or what we would like them to think...see Schumi for an example) No driver would throw away his money, but I don't think that any of them would sacrifice a career choice they like just because of a question of numbers. Schumi came back despite knowing that money would be nowhere near the figures he used to make. Alonso is now the new millionaire around the paddock, but he endured many years of puny contracts, even after his first WDC when compared to the likes of Schumi (of course), Barrichello and Kimi at that moment. Lewis is still today a real bargain for McLaren, etc.

Besides, Renault (the "real" Renault, not the facebook profile that Gerard Lopez owns) is still lurking around and may come back now that Lopez got it back into business. They could afford a Kimi, I am not sure what for, but they could (although they were never too generous).

So, even if I am skeptic about Kimi's chances or even actual willingness or convenience, it is still a possibility.

As for Petrov, the problem with him is not that he is not delivering as expected. I still think he is the rookie of the year despite his many mistakes. He has already shown that he accepts his mistakes (an uncommon trait nowadays), he is a fierce overtaker and very good at defensive driving. He is not too fast and can't make a good qualifying lap even at gunpoint, but he can improve.

The problem with Petrov is that, since the old Sovietic Union fell, his pit crew has divided between the Holy Islamic Pit Crew of the Right Side of the Car and the Kosher Messhuganah Republic of the Left Tires Pit Crew. They are engaged in a civil war trying to control the strategic gas tank and its oil reserves. Peter Windsor has joined forces with d#ck Cheney and want to disembark in the Renault Pit "to restore peace and sell them our exclusive USF1 chassis modeled on a soap bar" , but Petrov's Milf Manager Ivana Bigd#ckova threatened to retaliate. F1 politics and all that...

Kimi turned down McLaren with a pay-cut last year. The Holy Defenders of the Holy Kimi said he "knew he'd be number two," but I think by number two they meant sh*t, because Jenson sure isn't a number two in the seat Kimi so kindly left for him. In all seriousness, though WRC for whatever money meant more to him than F1 at a wage in the low eight-figures. Renault aren't going to pay him that much, and Kimi isn't going to do it for that little. He, rightfully so, wants more money to do F1 when he enjoys WRC. And even if he felt McLaren was a bad opportunity for him, I don't see why Renault alongside Kubica is better than McLaren alongside Lewis; besides, Kimi's a real racer, as much as I cannot tolerate him. I doubt teammates bother him, so I think the McLaren thing was all down to money, and the Renault thing will be, too.

Petrov has ability. Everyone else has needs. Hence Petrov cannot qualify to his full potential. Maybe some kind counterfeit watch/green card/male enhancement sales associate will send you an offer for an introductory econ textbook and you'll understand this better.

:lol: I say we try truth dollars, and if that doesn't work, we nuke them. Or just nuke them first, and then sell truth dollars anyway.

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It's hard to know if Renault are being serious in wanting Kimi. But I do recall some months back some news about Renault saying they would pay whatever, do anything to secure Kimi's signature. Then things died down again until now. Money does seem a big part of things, but I don't think money was the major reason that Kimi didn't goto McLaren for instance. The Kimi of today, might not be the same guy at the end of 2009. He's had a year out to chill and explore new things. Sometimes that can have a great effect in lifes decisions. I don't think next years Renault is a race winner, but with how they progressed this year, if they keep that up, they will win. If Kimi wants into F1, Renault next year is his best shot. After that, if things go well, I'm sure other opportunities will become available.

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It's hard to know if Renault are being serious in wanting Kimi. But I do recall some months back some news about Renault saying they would pay whatever, do anything to secure Kimi's signature. Then things died down again until now. Money does seem a big part of things, but I don't think money was the major reason that Kimi didn't goto McLaren for instance. The Kimi of today, might not be the same guy at the end of 2009. He's had a year out to chill and explore new things. Sometimes that can have a great effect in lifes decisions. I don't think next years Renault is a race winner, but with how they progressed this year, if they keep that up, they will win. If Kimi wants into F1, Renault next year is his best shot. After that, if things go well, I'm sure other opportunities will become available.

They are using him for self promotion. Later he decided to use them for self promotion so Robertson confirmed contact. I think that is all that is going to happen. Renault knows that they do not have the money. Kimi would be stupid to sign with guys that misuse confidentiality of job negotiations.

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Raikkonen is the most impossible driver to read. No-one can say what his intentions are, or what his motivation is. He certainly doesn't overtly express his love and passion or need for F1 like other drivers do. You get the feeling that if it all ended tomorrow he would shrug his shoulders and go and sit on his yacht.

His two years at Ferrari did huge damage to his reputation, particularly 2009 when he was consistently being out performed by Massa up until his accident. His performances appeared to improve after Massa's enforced absence.

If I'm a team boss and I already have a number 1 driver in Kubica I'm not sure that I would take Raikkonen into the team who would cost me a substaintial salary (OK maybe not as much as Raikkonen could demand a few years back but the net difference between a paying driver as Petrov and a paid driver such as Raikkonen is huge).

You could argue that Raikkonen will get you more points over the course of a season than Petrov. Maybe. But Petrov is in his first season and he has done alright, nothing special, just alright. There is a lack of promising drivers coming through the ranks. Stick with what you've got unless you can craftly negoiate farming Petrov out to another team, taking on a driver such as Glock as well as keeping the Lada money. Nice dream.

Renault is financially constrained and needs all the money it can to compete at the level it is operating at now. What it doesn't need is to be forking out a salary on a driver that may or may not perform on any given weekend and couldn't care less either way. Raikkonen has had his time in F1 and he got 1 championship out of it. He should have got more, that was partly McLaren's fault for their unreliability at the time, but Raikkonen must also shoulder responsibility for not taking hold of the Ferrari drive and stamping his authority over it.

The world turns.

Tchau

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His two years at Ferrari did huge damage to his reputation, particularly 2009 when he was consistently being out performed by Massa up until his accident. His performances appeared to improve after Massa's enforced absence.

This might be indication of Ferrari not giving him same chance/equipment as Massa. He was second best driver in last 8 races (Lewis was best) with the car that was no longer developed after Massa accident.

Edited by wapi

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This might be indication of Ferrari not giving him same chance/equipment as Massa. He was second best driver in last 8 races (Lewis was best) with the car that was no longer developed after Massa accident.

Kimi was winning in the early stages of the 2008 season. What Ferrari then did was to bring in updates that assisted Massa more(FACT), plus making the car more oversteery...

Also, everyone knows my conspiracy theory where I believe Schumie as an advisor started to improve things for his progidy Massa... my take on things

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Once Massa was injured Kimi's results started a fantastic run to the end of the season. A cynic might think that he was being pushed and fighting for his seat. Another would realise that with the debacles of the #2 drivers, the whole team focused on Kimi and knowing the 2009 car was a turd, took a what the hey approach and listened to his feedback and how he wanted the car setup. Funny how there's always been rumours of his lack of work ethic, yet I recall several quotes from many team managers and other Ferrari team members on just how great Kimi was in focusing on the job at hand. It wasn't until Alonso had been announced that the unprofessional nature of Ferrari came out in slagging of one of their own. Even then Kimi never faught back and corrected them on anything, I think he'd just had enough of the drama to be frank.

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Commercial side key to Raikkonen fate: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86759

Renault F1 chairman Gerard Lopez says Kimi Raikkonen's approach to the team will not sway it from making a decision on its 2011 line-up based on what makes most sense commercially.

Although the signing of a former world champion would be a big boost to Renault's aspirations of fighting for the title next year, Lopez says that the outfit will not be blinded by the prospects of being able to lure a star name like Raikkonen back to F1.

In an exclusive interview with AUTOSPORT, Lopez said that it was far too early to suggest the outfit was keen to pursue the Raikkonen option - and his team still had to balance out the financial attractions of having a driver like Vitaly Petrov against the benefits of paying for a big-name star.

"It's funny because people now think things are going well and we're going to change drivers," he said. "There's a certain rally driver that wasn't interested in Formula 1 but now has made contact and is interested in coming back to F1, funnily enough with us, but we're not there yet."

Lopez says that the team's decision on its second driver will still be motivated by financial factors - as the outfit seeks the levels of sponsorship and investment that it believes it will need to fight for the title next year.

"It's very important, " he said when asked if financial considerations were still important. "As I said, we use Formula 1, and we have to push our team to succeed because we use the platform to do business. And you know, it's a question of image.

"People like to do business with winning teams, so it goes hand in hand. For us still, the main consideration in this outside of Eric's [boullier] mission and the team's mission to start winning races again, is the business one. And it has become more important now that we've solidified the team, that we've found the sponsors, that we're bringing the sponsors, that we're doing whatever needs to be done.

"It's even more important now to build the team, to use that platform for the business side of it. And the fact that we're doing more and more deals with companies that come through Renault Formula 1 because we provide other things, I think it's even more important for 2011 than it was for 2010. In 2010 we had to rebuild. In 2011 we can focus on business."

Although the sponsorship opportunities that came from signing Vitaly Petrov at the beginning of this year were a key factor in his original appointment, Lopez insists that the Russian's place in the team is not just dependent on money.

"It's not that Vitaly is a paying driver, because he's not, but certainly the sponsors that he brought or that came, which is Lada, have been very good sponsors. But Vitaly was not bringing the kind of money that people were saying.

"And he's a good driver. Vitaly was second in the GP2 championship last year and could easily have won that championship if he hadn't had six failures last year. On top of all that, he is a driver that has 250 million Russian-speaking people that are convinced in him, so we'd be stupid not to assume that there is a business behind that. But we have to build the driver. He is to us a very important element, just as Robert [Kubica] is. "

Lopez has also rubbished suggestions that he is questioning his own future involvement in the sport - on the back of speculation in recent weeks that Renault could be poised to buy back the team.

"There's not even a question," he said. "We have an interest that this team does win races again, that this team does win championships again and hopefully if everything's goes fine we'll still be around in 10 years. And regardless of how often people ask us the question, it is not our intention to sell this. It is not a company like any other company. "

Lopez also reckons that season-long speculation questioning his involvement with Renault was simply fuelled by jealousy from rival outfits.

"F1 is quite an ego-centric environment, so you have jealousy," he said. "It's a little bit funny because people take themselves a little bit too seriously. And, at the same time, it's a little bit... it's not very intelligent. At the end of the day, it is a sport where the sport would benefit from the teams trying not to help each other because it's a competition, but trying to think of ways to help the sport together.

"So just jumping on something, jumping too quickly to conclusions, assuming certain things like a team is not interested long-term, or that a team is just two guys that came in, just had a little bit of fun and they're already bored with their new toy and they're moving on to something - these are shortcuts that people shouldn't take. Pride pushes us to prove even further the opposite."

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Thanks for the report. I'm sure I'm not the only one to think it's very sad that even teams like Renault feel the need to employ pay drivers. This is what annoys me about F1: everything the teams do is detrimental to the sport. I was never Kimi's biggest fan but it's a disgrace that he might be overlooked in favour of Petrov/Sutil/Piquet Jr/his grandmother. And all for what? Some minor "innovation" barely worthy of the name.

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Thanks for the report Silvermachine.

In my point of view, it looks like a very unprofessional reaction from a brand like Renault to Kimi's interest.

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I think they are sending signals to Kimi that he shouldn't expect anywhere near the kind of salary he was earning at Ferrari (even for 2010). If Kimi comes back, 2012 should give him plenty of options and sizable contracts, so maybe Renault want to sign him for cheap or are looking to sign him for long term, and maybe thats why they're behaving like that.

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Renault don't need Raikkonen.

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In my point of view, it looks like a very unprofessional reaction from a brand like Renault to Kimi's interest.

I completely agree with you. They are playing PR games of self promotion on his expense.

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