KoolMonkey

I Guess That'S Finally It Then... Kimi Gone For Good :(

670 posts in this topic

Kimi was winning in the early stages of the 2008 season. What Ferrari then did was to bring in updates that assisted Massa more(FACT), plus making the car more oversteery...

Also, everyone knows my conspiracy theory where I believe Schumie as an advisor started to improve things for his progidy Massa... my take on things

Ferrari wouldn't get behind Massa without reason. They either felt he was more capable, or he was simply more popular within the team for work ethic, personality, loyalty, etc. That's just how the game goes. There's one kind of excuse: bad. It's how it goes. They made Kimi number one in 2007 at Massa's expense when Kimi was hardly out-performing Massa; they did the same with roles reversed in 2008. That's how it goes. At the end of the day, Ferrari had a reason to not back Kimi, and that reason's down to Kimi himself, whatever it was.

Thanks for the report Silvermachine.

In my point of view, it looks like a very unprofessional reaction from a brand like Renault to Kimi's interest.

It was honest, and the comments about the "certain rally driver" wanting back weren't ones I would have wanted to make representing my company. There certainly would have been a better way to word their disinterest in Kimi.

The point made, however, is quite valid. Kimi's not the best decision for them. There's no guarantee he even has the advantage in the driving category after a year away.

Renault don't need Raikkonen.

That is a fact.

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Pucky there are other thoughts on why Ferrari where supporting Massa so favorably. Once Kimi was no longer a mathematical possibility for the championship, I think it was good he got behind Massa for his bid to win it. But things seemed a little off at Ferrari. For instance Schumi being there. He had no role, yet we saw him there on the pitwall with the headphones on, and we all know how much Massa considered him a mentor. I don't find it outside the realm of impossible to think he also as a "consultant" was giving advice to the engineers on how to improve the car. If you take Kimi's performances once Massa was injured into account, then you realise it's just possible Ferrari were for some reason going in the direction Schumi was instructing at. The benefits of that of course were more to Massa's liking than Kimis. Now these are course are my thoughts, they aren't fact, but there a clues that it's not that far fetched either. BradSpeedMan mentioned in his post things quite similar too.

As far as Renault go, I hope they are for real with this Raikonnen thing, but my original reaction to first finding out about it was, let's take a wait and see approach. Kimi's never been the one to blow his own trumpet and seems to do things his way, and often privately. So whatever reason Renault really have, we'll just have to wait and see. Petrov is not there to win races for them. Rather he's there to get some points, while taking his sponsorship money, and hopefully opening up some doors for the retail car sales industry in Russia. But at the end of the day, either his money will dry up, or he simply won't up to snuff with scoring points. I do agree it looks rather interesting as to where on earth they would find the funds to hire Kimi, but having Kimi in the team would drive massive sales for team merchandise, and lots of other revenues. Plus, whether he beats Kubica or not, he's still going to be a better driver than Petrov is and will score the team points. Once Renault work out what their actual goal is, we'll know who is driving for them. Right now they are trying to have the cake and eat it too. I don't rate Petrov badly, I just don't think he would ever be there if not for the massive Russian $$$.

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You'd think that if Schumi could make a race car go faster by "remote" or by "proxy" as it were, then he'd have that Mercedes nee Brawn nee Honda nee BAR Honda nee BAR nee Tyrell going faster....

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You'd think that if Schumi could make a race car go faster by "remote" or by "proxy" as it were, then he'd have that Mercedes nee Brawn nee Honda nee BAR Honda nee BAR nee Tyrell going faster....

It's a good point well made. The speculation that goes into Michael's influence at Ferrari post driving career is amazing. All of it based on no facts whatsoever, simply rumour and people's prejudice.

Michael should have ditched the Ferrari uniform and instead should have worn a black cloak, a black top hat and clutch a Gladstone bag. He should have grown himself a bushy moustache and laugh manically whilst holding his cloak up to his sizeable chin as all his machiavellian plans came together seemlessly.

I'm sure that Ferrari were happy paying Raikkonen $30m a year whilst he under performed for them. It was all Ferrari and Schumacher's fault and part of their grand scheme to get Massa to be number 1 within the team. Raikkonen was simply the innocent victim. It's the logical thing to do when you make such a huge investment in a driver, offer him no support., undermine him, give him inferior equipment. Then you get rid of him out of the sport and still pay his huge salary for not driving for you. All of this happening whilst the world is facing a huge economic downturn and money for everyone is scarce.

Nurse...the medication is wearing off and somehow I've managed to get one hand out from my straight jacket.

Tchau, for now.

That's better, I feel like I'm floating away.

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Does anyone know if Kimi was paid more than Alonso is now at Ferrari? I'm curious how well teams understand how quick the drivers are. It seems that Ferrari overestimated Kimi, or maybe he just underperformed in that environment.

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Ferrari wouldn't get behind Massa without reason. They either felt he was more capable, or he was simply more popular within the team for work ethic, personality, loyalty, etc. That's just how the game goes. There's one kind of excuse: bad. It's how it goes. They made Kimi number one in 2007 at Massa's expense when Kimi was hardly out-performing Massa; they did the same with roles reversed in 2008. That's how it goes. At the end of the day, Ferrari had a reason to not back Kimi, and that reason's down to Kimi himself, whatever it was.

It was honest, and the comments about the "certain rally driver" wanting back weren't ones I would have wanted to make representing my company. There certainly would have been a better way to word their disinterest in Kimi.

They made Kimi number 1 in 2007, and thats when Jean Todt was there. It is a known fact that Jean Todt and Norbert Hogg are big fans of Kimi. And he was well worth the number 1 status because he won them a championship.

Then came Stefano D. And right from the first race things felt different at Ferrari. I remember less than half way into the 2008 season there were already rumors of Alonso moving to Ferrari, even though Raikkonen was reigning champion and still in contention for the title. So the focus clearly was no longer on Kimi.

I have said this before, Alonso was clearly not worth the extra 18 million that Ferrari are paying to Kimi for 2010. Massa is matching his pace despite his accident and subsequent absence from the sport in 2009. So it doesn't have to do with Kimi not being worth his seat, its just the focus of the management plus money from sponsors.

I think Renault are also in the same trap. They are saying all they can to publicize themselves for sponsorships. I think their primary focus is on Russian sponsors and they are using the Raikkonen news to their advantage. Regardless of whether Russian sponsors respond or not, I think without Kimi, Renault don't stand a chance for long term survival. They need two quick driver if they are to resurface. Once they show promise sponsors will come automatically, as was the case with Brawn last year.

As far as the question of regulation changes and full fuel tanks is concerned, someone here said kimi won't be good with full fuel tanks. Kimi always performed better than the rest on heavier fuel loads. Even better than Hamilton and thats a fact.

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They made Kimi number 1 in 2007, and thats when Jean Todt was there. It is a known fact that Jean Todt and Norbert Hogg are big fans of Kimi. And he was well worth the number 1 status because he won them a championship.

Then came Stefano D. And right from the first race things felt different at Ferrari. I remember less than half way into the 2008 season there were already rumors of Alonso moving to Ferrari, even though Raikkonen was reigning champion and still in contention for the title. So the focus clearly was no longer on Kimi.

I have said this before, Alonso was clearly not worth the extra 18 million that Ferrari are paying to Kimi for 2010. Massa is matching his pace despite his accident and subsequent absence from the sport in 2009. So it doesn't have to do with Kimi not being worth his seat, its just the focus of the management plus money from sponsors.

I think Renault are also in the same trap. They are saying all they can to publicize themselves for sponsorships. I think their primary focus is on Russian sponsors and they are using the Raikkonen news to their advantage. Regardless of whether Russian sponsors respond or not, I think without Kimi, Renault don't stand a chance for long term survival. They need two quick driver if they are to resurface. Once they show promise sponsors will come automatically, as was the case with Brawn last year.

As far as the question of regulation changes and full fuel tanks is concerned, someone here said kimi won't be good with full fuel tanks. Kimi always performed better than the rest on heavier fuel loads. Even better than Hamilton and thats a fact.

Some good points sadam. Jean Todt ran Ferrari in very different way to SD. It did feel in 2007 like they appreciated Kimi more. Then in 2008 well, it was a bit of a mess. Bad team decisions, inexperience and other things going on. You're right about Haug being a big fan. Despite the notion that Kimi doesn't have a good work ethic and is lazy, when you look at it more closely you'll find NONE of the team principals, cheif mechanics or anyone in the heirachy of teams said a bad thing about Kimi. Ah, but after Ferrari had signed Alonso, suddenly alot of rubbish started coming from them in Kimi's direction.

Alonso really hasn't put in $18mill more results than Kimi. But since Santander are ploughing huge sums into the team, I guess they got to get their money's worth somehow. Honestly apart from the last race, Alonso hasn't done any better than Kimi did. Yet I don't see the knives out for him, or "rumours" of him being lazy and having a bad work ethic.

I wish Jean Todt had stayed on. Ferrari lost too many smart people at the top of the team, and I think Jean took a good approach in driver management.

It's very hard to actually see what's going on with Renault. I think for sure they are using Kimi for their own gain, but they also know that unless Petrov picks up his game considerably, they aren't going anywhere in terms of constructors or gaining new sponsors. Most of Petrov's money is Govt funded too from memory. Ultimately, no pay driver sticks around for very long. As either two things happen. One, their money dries up, or two the team get over a driver crashing / making mistakes, and the lack of progress made. Oh, I should add a * here and say there is a third option... Jiquet Jr! lol

The life span of a pay driver is a few seasons if that, but generally is only one or two years.

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Some good points sadam. Jean Todt ran Ferrari in very different way to SD. It did feel in 2007 like they appreciated Kimi more. Then in 2008 well, it was a bit of a mess. Bad team decisions, inexperience and other things going on. You're right about Haug being a big fan. Despite the notion that Kimi doesn't have a good work ethic and is lazy, when you look at it more closely you'll find NONE of the team principals, cheif mechanics or anyone in the heirachy of teams said a bad thing about Kimi. Ah, but after Ferrari had signed Alonso, suddenly alot of rubbish started coming from them in Kimi's direction.

But Kimi didn't say one word against Ferrari people even after they threw rubbish at him, trying to justify the Alonso deal. You would expect a man like him not to speak out and complain even if he felt he wasn't being allocated the right amount of resources in 2008, and first part of 2009. He is fair to people and expects people to be fair to him, and if that isn't the case he would simply look away without saying a word.

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And let's not forget he can also cure most known illnesses by mere imposition of hands.

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And let's not forget he can also cure most known illnesses by mere imposition of hands.

"There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the Universe, and it has a longer shelf life" - Frank Zappa

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Wow...you can quote a quote.....and miss a point by, oh, the distance to the sun and back.

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But Kimi didn't say one word against Ferrari people even after they threw rubbish at him, trying to justify the Alonso deal. You would expect a man like him not to speak out and complain even if he felt he wasn't being allocated the right amount of resources in 2008, and first part of 2009. He is fair to people and expects people to be fair to him, and if that isn't the case he would simply look away without saying a word.

That's correct. I think you missed the post you quoted. I was saying the same thing you are. Kimi never said anything in relation to the bad mouthing from Ferrari. Nor has he ever said anything negative or unsavory towards his teams, team mates or anyone else.

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And let's not forget he can also cure most known illnesses by mere imposition of hands.

That was/is feature of only four drivers until now:

Ayrton Senna

Michael Schumacher

Fernando Alonso

Lewis Hamilton

No other drivers had so many true believers.

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Anybody knows how much Renault were paying Alonso in 2008 and 2009? I think it was quite a lot, but the management at that time was different. The current management doesn't seem to like "primma donna" drivers. laugh.gif

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That was/is feature of only four drivers until now:

Ayrton Senna

Michael Schumacher

Fernando Alonso

Lewis Hamilton

No other drivers had so many true believers.

lol laugh.gif

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Anybody knows how much Renault were paying Alonso in 2008 and 2009? I think it was quite a lot, but the management at that time was different. The current management doesn't seem to like "primma donna" drivers. laugh.gif

Not sure on what Alonso was being paid. I still think even the new incarnation of Renault would have kept Alonso if they could, but it's clear they are operating on a much smaller budget. I don't think its them not liking prima donnas, rather they are being frugal and wanted to put the crashgate debacle behind them as quickly as possible. What better way then to have non controversial drivers, and making progress up the grid with each upgrade to the cars.

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Whoa! Sense of humor not one of your best assets now, is it? Wrong tree, go bark somewhere else.

WOOF WOOF

I've spent the past several months lurking on other F1 forums and you know what's missing from alot of then... snide remarks from asshats like yourself.

Actually that's exactly what's not missing from every single forum in the world, the anonymity and lack of consequences (lack of a high probability of getting punched in the face) rather emboldens a certain kind of person.

I am sorry but it's really hard to not poke fun at you or push your buttons, since you have an unholy obsession with a guy who drives cars for a living, a glorified chauffeur, in fact chauffeurs have a far more useful job. And you go to great lengths to defend his personality, weave incredible circular logic arguments to defend him, as if he's your first born (he's not doing well in school because he's sensitive and the school's not a good environment - no it's because he's a lazy sod).

Renault can't pay Kimi's salary, which would likely include something to buy out his WRC contract.

Considering he's busy finshing last or crashing out in WRC, might not be all that hard to buy him out.

It's hard to know if Renault are being serious in wanting Kimi. But I do recall some months back some news about Renault saying they would pay whatever, do anything to secure Kimi's signature.

No they didn't, that's your imagination or some dodgy headline from a fly by night F1 news site.

The latest report says Renault would consider him as a pay driver. That's what it's come down to, Kimi can get into F1 as a glorified pay driver.

Thanks for the report. I'm sure I'm not the only one to think it's very sad that even teams like Renault feel the need to employ pay drivers. This is what annoys me about F1: everything the teams do is detrimental to the sport. I was never Kimi's biggest fan but it's a disgrace that he might be overlooked in favour of Petrov/Sutil/Piquet Jr/his grandmother. And all for what? Some minor "innovation" barely worthy of the name.

Sutil's been brilliant. Kimi can queue up with all the other pay drivers.

Does anyone know if Kimi was paid more than Alonso is now at Ferrari?

No. He wasn't.

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This is from the Renault interview ""There's a certain rally driver that wasn't interested in Formula 1 but now has made contact and is interested in coming back to F1, funnily enough with us, but we're not there yet."

It is quite sad that a recent F1 champion has to approach a lower mid range F1 team so ask if he can drive for them as a pay driver, that is how far Kimi has fallen.

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I am sorry but it's really hard to not poke fun at you or push your buttons, since you have an unholy obsession with a guy who drives cars for a living, a glorified chauffeur, in fact chauffeurs have a far more useful job. And you go to great lengths to defend his personality, weave incredible circular logic arguments to defend him, as if he's your first born (he's not doing well in school because he's sensitive and the school's not a good environment - no it's because he's a lazy sod).

That's your opinion. You seem to have no respect for a differing point of view so you have to then poke fun at, or attempt to ridicule a person. Ignoring the obvious, do you see me replying or making fun of you in return? Just because it's fun to do so, doesn't make your opinion then become fact.

No they didn't, that's your imagination or some dodgy headline from a fly by night F1 news site.

It was around June/July and there were tons of news items, editorials and opinion pieces floating around. Ones where Kubica was saying it would be good to have Kimi as a teammate, Renault buying back the team, Nokia coming on board and ultimately Renault being able to afford and secure Kimi's services. I didn't imagine it, but I don't recall where I read it either.

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But Kimi didn't say one word against Ferrari people even after they threw rubbish at him, trying to justify the Alonso deal. You would expect a man like him not to speak out and complain even if he felt he wasn't being allocated the right amount of resources in 2008, and first part of 2009. He is fair to people and expects people to be fair to him, and if that isn't the case he would simply look away without saying a word.

It's called a confidentiality clause and every contract will have one. It''ll go something like this; you don't saying anything to anyone about the situation and we will continue to pay you the money that is owed to you on your contract. If anything comes out in the press then we cease payment and take action to recover monies that have been paid to date.

Given that Kimi will only talk to the press at the end of a cattle prod at the best of times then it is a pretty safe bet he'll keep schtum.

Tchau

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This is from the Renault interview ""There's a certain rally driver that wasn't interested in Formula 1 but now has made contact and is interested in coming back to F1, funnily enough with us, but we're not there yet."

It is quite sad that a recent F1 champion has to approach a lower mid range F1 team so ask if he can drive for them as a pay driver, that is how far Kimi has fallen.

excuse me, is'nt Michael a pay driver too... plus the team sucked so much in development it had to focus on next season....

This when a driver like Button has left....

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The latest report says Renault would consider him as a pay driver. That's what it's come down to, Kimi can get into F1 as a glorified pay driver.

You've misinterpreted the info. This is what the Renault boss has said:

"It's flattering, because it shows that our team is again attractive to a Formula One world champion," he told AFA.

Argue. But with logic, hater.

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