Ferrari To Sue If They Lose Points

[HandyNZL 1]

OK, so who sniffs a fiasco coming up in a few weeks?

Ferrari rattling some chains now about suing the FIA if they lose their points. Me thinks it seems Ferrari more than ever thinks they have their own set of rules to race to.

It's all rather absurd really. Playground stuff.

Buuuuuttttt.....this will be a talking point in the very near future.

So what are everyone's predictions...will Toddy let them get away with it, or will he genuinely stand aside on this matter and let others vote etc? Is Luca a menace to F1 (well, he is isn't he....) ? Would the FIA be wise to change the rules?

Discuss, me hearties....the outcome of this will have more bearing on F1 in the next wee while than flexi wings and concrete walls....

[riseofstars 0]

I think Ferrari will get away with some fine.. Or else at least that's what i am hoping for.. want alonso to win his 3rd title this year..

[Rainmaster 7]

Probably nothing. Possibly something unimportant like an increased fine, suspended sentence, some constructor's points etc.

[Kopite Girl 0]

OK, so who sniffs a fiasco coming up in a few weeks?

Ferrari rattling some chains now about suing the FIA if they lose their points. Me thinks it seems Ferrari more than ever thinks they have their own set of rules to race to.

It's all rather absurd really. Playground stuff.

Buuuuuttttt.....this will be a talking point in the very near future.

So what are everyone's predictions...will Toddy let them get away with it, or will he genuinely stand aside on this matter and let others vote etc? Is Luca a menace to F1 (well, he is isn't he....) ? Would the FIA be wise to change the rules?

Discuss, me hearties....the outcome of this will have more bearing on F1 in the next wee while than flexi wings and concrete walls....

Gonna be difficult for Toad to step aside unless he votes himself out of making any decision. He may present his case, but needs to not make a decision due to possible conflicting interests. I'd like to think however that he would be very objective.

Luca di Mozarella - I'm in a good mood and not going to rant.

Good questions Craig. Food for thought indeed!

Now I'm going to shower, get ready, hire a car, and head on over to Beverly Hills' Rodeo Drive and have myself a girlie day shopping! Wahey!

[dribbler 6]

If I were Jean Todt, I would suggest to Ferrari that they handle any future driver position switches with a little more discretion and not hand them a stiff fine or sentence. Then, I would call a meeting with all the teams and discuss a logical way forward with complete openess, for the good of them and fans alike. Todt has to be objective but he cannot ignore blindly his previous job, nor the decisions he made in that job. Let's face it, the reason he is the head of the FIA is because he can draw on his considerable experience in the sport and its inner workings.

If Ferrari get severely reprimanded, what does that mean? That we want to see inescapable team orders banished, or just covered up in some sort of patronising nod to the the spectators?

This incident happened, not as a result of Ferrari blatantly sticking two fingers up at the sport and its rules, it happened because there was a logical reason for it. That means the current ruling may be illogical. Simply shouting at them will not tackle the real issue.

I only hope that Todt will be rational and logical and look at it this way instead of what the media and fans want; a sh!t storm.

[Argento Reloaded 1]

If I were Jean Todt, I would suggest to Ferrari that they handle any future driver position switches with a little more discretion and not hand them a stiff fine or sentence.

...just like Macca in Turkey...

[BradSpeedMan 6]

The toad has excused himself, he won't take part in the matter

[Rainmaster 7]

Objective or not (..and it would be difficult to be..) a decision which involved Todt would always have looked either ironically harsh or suspiciously lenient, that is why removing himself from the process is a smart move.

[rodders47 2]

All this stuff beats me to be honest!

Surely there are people out there that bet on the F1 races?

And if so I am sure they would be p**sed off with TEAM ORDERS!

Horse Racing, the Sport of Kings, have teams running a number of horses but hell the stewards sure keep a close watch on any FIXING, so if it's good enough for them why not F1????

[mw_17 0]

They'll most likely get away with it. Even if they get some sort of punishment, it will either be another fine or something money related.

[Jean Todt 4]

I only hope that Todt will be rational and logical and look at it this way instead of what the media and fans want; a sh!t storm.

Done...

[Jean Todt 4]

Aug.24 (GMM) It would not be adequate to only penalise Ferrari at next month's World Motor Sport Council disciplinary hearing.

That is the opinion of Max Mosley, ahead of the September 8 meeting that was called to assess the Italian team's allegedly illegal use of team orders during the German grand prix.

With Ferrari already handed a $100,000 fine by the Hockenheim stewards, it is suggested that a satisfactory outcome might be a further sporting sanction but one that allows drivers Felipe Massa and Fernando Alonso to keep their championship points.

Former long-time FIA president Mosley, however, disagrees, "because the drivers understood the rules when they were given their FIA super licenses but in Hockenheim (the drivers) failed to uphold them".

"I'm sorry particularly for poor Felipe Massa," added Mosley in an interview with Welt am Sonntag newspaper, "but there is a rule strictly against team orders."

The 70-year-old Briton said Brazilian Massa cannot argue that he was only obeying an instruction from his team "because his employer had no right to invite him to break the rules".

[Jean Todt 4]

Objective or not (..and it would be difficult to be..) a decision which involved Todt would always have looked either ironically harsh or suspiciously lenient, that is why removing himself from the process is a smart move.

Smart observation Gorgia.....you are the only one who understands me...

[wapi 4]

Aug.24 (GMM) It would not be adequate to only penalise Ferrari at next month's World Motor Sport Council disciplinary hearing.

That is the opinion of Max Mosley, ...

MM is irrelevant, he does not have any influence any more. Also he is media attention junky. In order to get media attention we might see him streaking at WImbledon... or in Monza

[mikathegreat2 2]

I'm losing my respect for Ferrari! They should be punished fairly by getting points taken off but now they're becoming too big for their boots & claim to sue the FIA?? If I was todt & heard that threat I'd ban Ferrari from the sport!

[wapi 4]

I'm losing my respect for Ferrari! They should be punished fairly by getting points taken off but now they're becoming too big for their boots & claim to sue the FIA?? If I was todt & heard that threat I'd ban Ferrari from the sport!

Ban them from the sport based on what???

If massive stealing of intelectual property was not reason to ban from the sport then I can not imagine how exchnage of places between Alonso and Massa could be. Maybe you think threat to sue FIA is good enough reason??? Where do you live - North Korea?

[mikathegreat2 2]

Ban them from the sport based on what???

If massive stealing of intelectual property was not reason to ban from the sport then I can not imagine how exchnage of places between Alonso and Massa could be. Maybe you think threat to sue FIA is good enough reason??? Where do you live - North Korea?

If it's against the rules they should be punished fairly! $100k is pocket money, remove their points for the rest of the season at least & if they sue, todt should forget about his Ferrari days & not allow em to compete next year! Lesson learned?? Btw I'm Irish !

[wapi 4]

If it's against the rules they should be punished fairly! $100k is pocket money, remove their points for the rest of the season at least & if they sue, todt should forget about his Ferrari days & not allow em to compete next year! Lesson learned?? Btw I'm Irish !

I see no respect for law and punishement proportional to offense, just pure full scale revenge.

I persistantly fail to understand why it is unthinkable and against the rules to sue FIA?

[Max Mosley 2]

Well, I don't know the details of this particular case, or what Ferrari would sue for exactly, but it's obviously pretty shocking for a competitor in a sport to threaten to sue the governing body if they choose to impose a penalty. Maybe I should follow F1 news more closely before posting about it but I really don't see how the FIA is exacting revenge on Ferrari in the circumstances.

[wapi 4]

Right Honorable Mr. Mosley you misunderstood me. I was reffering to maurethegreat2's urge to throw Ferrari out of championship....

[mikathegreat2 2]

Ban them for a year, not for life! Jeez, who do fanboys get so defensive??

[Jean Todt 4]

Ban them for a year, not for life! Jeez, who do fanboys get so defensive??

Banning them would be an over reaction.....even if Ferrari is banned, the teams would still use team orders when needed.

[Autumnpuma 0]

Aug.24 (GMM) It would not be adequate to only penalise Ferrari at next month's World Motor Sport Council disciplinary hearing.

That is the opinion of Max Mosley, ahead of the September 8 meeting that was called to assess the Italian team's allegedly illegal use of team orders during the German grand prix.

With Ferrari already handed a $100,000 fine by the Hockenheim stewards, it is suggested that a satisfactory outcome might be a further sporting sanction but one that allows drivers Felipe Massa and Fernando Alonso to keep their championship points.

Former long-time FIA president Mosley, however, disagrees, "because the drivers understood the rules when they were given their FIA super licenses but in Hockenheim (the drivers) failed to uphold them".

"I'm sorry particularly for poor Felipe Massa," added Mosley in an interview with Welt am Sonntag newspaper, "but there is a rule strictly against team orders."

The 70-year-old Briton said Brazilian Massa cannot argue that he was only obeying an instruction from his team "because his employer had no right to invite him to break the rules".

He makes sense, but the rules also say that any action made by an employee of a team is the team's fault and the team gets the penalty, not the employee.

[DOF_power 0]

He makes sense, but the rules also say that any action made by an employee of a team is the team's fault and the team gets the penalty, not the employee.

As some german newspaper pointed out with German GP incident, the other teams were using team orders as well, either via the save fuel/ tires/ engine nonsense or out in the open (the don't pass team-mate radio instructions) involving the back of the grid teams (Sauber).

Ferrari also pointed out the McLaren Hamilton - Kovalainen "pass" in Germany 2008 (; with Ron Dennis openly thanking Heikki ).

The only reason this is even an issues (in the "anglo-saxon" world, as Italy and Spain were perfectly fine with it) is because this involved Ferrari, Alonso and a move for the 1st place.

Team orders always happened and will always happen, and there will plenty of fans that actually support team orders.

[Max Mosley 2]

It's not explicitly stated in the rules but I think the point is that the rule-makers don't want team orders to be too obvious. Massa letting Alonso past in 2010 looked very different to casual fans compared to Lewis getting an easy time from Heikki in 2008.

There were lots of people in Italy and Spain who thought it was too blatant too, although naturally they were more divided on the issue. Personally I think the rules are confusing and should be changed.