The Usf1 Team In 2011

[zanet 0]

Anyone heard any more with USF1 team

after pulling out of 2010 will they enter 2011?

Maybe with the confirmation of the USA grand prix we may see another glimpse

i love the small teams

[subiedude 0]

They are done, fini, gone, liquidated and embarassed. I doubt any new players will enter the game from USA. The smart guys like Penske, Ganassi wont play Bernie's game.

[Pucky the Whale 0]

The operation shut down and they were banned from ever re-entering.

Steve Brown, Brawn GP's R+D head, retained many of the employees (who were also ex-Brawn and other teams) and formed Cypher Group, who withdrew their bid for the 2011 slot about one month ago. The Cypher Group had no association with Ken Anderson, Jason Anderson, or Peter Windsor, the three people responsible for the demise (they had a bigger budget than Virgin and quality people, but the facilities were questionable and the micro-managing arrogance of the leadership killed them).

Penske and Ganassi do not have the money for F1 and wouldn't do it, as subiedude says. They're used to running the series they race in (Penske essentially is the key player in the IRL; he owns all the engine leases, so if he leaves, the engines do, too, and the series folds. Therefore, he, and Ganassi, both get special treatment and are allowed to run illegal vehicles without failing tech inspection...says someone who claims to have used to work in IRL tech inspection. Shady sources, but I believe the Penske part only because he's always been known to get his way or leave, and if he left, he'd bring all the engines with him). Anyone who thinks Penske or Ganassi will ever enter F1 is just ejaculating into the text box and hitting "Add Reply." I'm a big fan of the Ganassi team, but their NASCAR budget is close to a solid F1 team budget, and they use the profits from the NASCAR side to fund the Indy and Grand-Am operations, which lose money...there's no way Ganassi could support an F1 team without closing his others, and he's far too interested in U.S. racing to sacrifice his dominance there for a sport he doesn't have any care for. Penske's similar; the NASCAR budget is huge and he's funding a few unsponsored cars out of pocket in both NASCAR and IRL...again, he'd have to leave all the series he's in now for F1, and nothing means more to Roger than the 500 and winning it. Any of the big NASCAR teams could afford it, really. Their budgets are massive. But they'd have to leave NASCAR to do F1, and there's no chance in Hell any of them are...they make fine money in NASCAR, and have a lot of U.S. business interests, and have massive backers, and have already become bedmates with the France family. Not worth dumping all that, and all their staff, to gamble on F1 and likely fail.

Parris Mullins and Chad Hurley, partners of US F1, tried to buy Sauber and Toro Rosso this summer with a group of investors. As you can see, they failed, and are likely to disappear, as Branson won't want them invading his involvement at Manor, and HRT already rejected them. Something tells me that, being rejected by three teams, they have more ambition than money.

Ken Anderson tried to enter Anderson F1. It made me laugh. It made the FIA laugh, too. Needless to say all Anderson F1 was was Anderson's old IndyCar tub that never ran (the Falcon Indy 01-A)...the same one he pretended was the US F1 Type 1. Oi.

In short...no U.S. team, sorry. Epsilon Euskadi and Durango/Villeneuve are the only two players, though I imagine the FIA will end up rejecting both...or they'll take themselves out...or whatever.

[Rainmaster 7]

You know, I opened this thread, read the original post, and was going to recommend that you wait for Pucky the Whale to answer your question, as he would know the most about it. Well, there you go

[HandyNZL 1]

You know, I opened this thread, read the original post, and was going to recommend that you read the news section on any F1 site from about three months ago and then you'd know, like Eric (Pucky Wucky), that USF1 is dead, has been dead for some time, and will forever more remain dead. However, by posting this I would only be adding to my post count. So I refrained from posting

[Pucky the Whale 0]

Ah, Craig is right. I have a superior connection...to the Internet, where I get all my information.

[JHS 1]

Doubt it. I think the latest American attempts (if you can call them that) are enough to put any team in America off for at least another decade, or however long it was since the last American entry prior to Cypher/USF1.

[Jean Todt 4]

Lemme know when Eric becomes the boss of USF1....

[Pucky the Whale 0]

Doubt it. I think the latest American attempts (if you can call them that) are enough to put any team in America off for at least another decade, or however long it was since the last American entry prior to Cypher/USF1.

Not following your logic...why would any team care about any past team's nationality? US F1 did not fail because they were a U.S. American team; therefore, a well-managed U.S. American team would not have the problems they did. Being based in the U.S. had nothing to do with it, either. They had a fantastic wind tunnel and were able to attract many employees fresh off a WCC at Brawn; it may not have been ideal, but the predictions they'd struggle to get talent were way off base (home is home, so I understand why many don't want to leave, but it's not like these guys were leaving for a team based in Siberia. Inconvenient, but no loss of quality of life, and with so many F1 team members laid off after 2009, people were desperate for work).

Cypher's problem was marketing. They lacked a Peter Windsor figure (not praising Windsor by any means, but he added credibility for a while) to bring sponsorship in (US F1 did have partners, at the very least...most bailed, of course). Their quiet approach was honorable, as was their exit (not wanting to further embarrass the sport and the nation), but at the end of the day, never confirming who was running the operation until weeks before they folded, and never giving any specifics about their location or any of that, really made it hard for companies to trust them.

What will put U.S. American teams, and teams from all nations, off is having to pay a non-refundable fee in the eight figures just to be considered for entry (if you get rejected, sucks for you...the money belongs to the FIA) and, in the event of failure, being fined even more by the FIA as a penalty. The cost is why Cypher left, the cost is why ART left, the cost is why teams, regardless of nation, aren't applying. We only have two left...how long until they get sick of waiting for the FIA and wasting money?

It's like saying we won't see a British team for another decade because Virgin are helplessly slow or a French team because ART withdrew their bid. If there is an interested U.S. American party, one that is well-managed and well-financed, they won't say "oh, no, we won't do this, because the last guys were idiots." In fact, they'll probably want to prove something...that they can do it.

Do I realistically see a U.S. American team any time in the future? Of course not. But it's not because US F1 failed, or because Cypher didn't want to play the unfair game the FIA were offering (the massive non-refundable deposit before selection). Like McLaren wouldn't cease F1 operations to run NASCAR, U.S. racing's top dogs aren't going to exit NASCAR for F1. And it will take audacity to base the team in the U.S., and the only audacious U.S. Americans involved in F1 are putting on a race in Austin. I'd rather see that work than a U.S. team for now; I think it will have a larger impact.

So, long story short, there won't be any U.S.-owned or based teams in 2011, but I won't try to predict the future beyond that. I couldn't think of anyone who could and would try it, but then again, if you asked me who would front the next U.S. Grand Prix and where it would be, Tavo Hellmund and Austin wouldn't come to mind. We'll see.

Lemme know when Eric becomes the boss of USF1....

You're the FIA president, Jean, you can still accept my bid for the thirteenth team this year.

[JHS 1]

Not following your logic...why would any team care about any past team's nationality? US F1 did not fail because they were a U.S. American team; therefore, a well-managed U.S. American team would not have the problems they did. Being based in the U.S. had nothing to do with it, either. They had a fantastic wind tunnel and were able to attract many employees fresh off a WCC at Brawn; it may not have been ideal, but the predictions they'd struggle to get talent were way off base (home is home, so I understand why many don't want to leave, but it's not like these guys were leaving for a team based in Siberia. Inconvenient, but no loss of quality of life, and with so many F1 team members laid off after 2009, people were desperate for work).

Cypher's problem was marketing. They lacked a Peter Windsor figure (not praising Windsor by any means, but he added credibility for a while) to bring sponsorship in (US F1 did have partners, at the very least...most bailed, of course). Their quiet approach was honorable, as was their exit (not wanting to further embarrass the sport and the nation), but at the end of the day, never confirming who was running the operation until weeks before they folded, and never giving any specifics about their location or any of that, really made it hard for companies to trust them.

What will put U.S. American teams, and teams from all nations, off is having to pay a non-refundable fee in the eight figures just to be considered for entry (if you get rejected, sucks for you...the money belongs to the FIA) and, in the event of failure, being fined even more by the FIA as a penalty. The cost is why Cypher left, the cost is why ART left, the cost is why teams, regardless of nation, aren't applying. We only have two left...how long until they get sick of waiting for the FIA and wasting money?

It's like saying we won't see a British team for another decade because Virgin are helplessly slow or a French team because ART withdrew their bid. If there is an interested U.S. American party, one that is well-managed and well-financed, they won't say "oh, no, we won't do this, because the last guys were idiots." In fact, they'll probably want to prove something...that they can do it.

Do I realistically see a U.S. American team any time in the future? Of course not. But it's not because US F1 failed, or because Cypher didn't want to play the unfair game the FIA were offering (the massive non-refundable deposit before selection). Like McLaren wouldn't cease F1 operations to run NASCAR, U.S. racing's top dogs aren't going to exit NASCAR for F1. And it will take audacity to base the team in the U.S., and the only audacious U.S. Americans involved in F1 are putting on a race in Austin. I'd rather see that work than a U.S. team for now; I think it will have a larger impact.

So, long story short, there won't be any U.S.-owned or based teams in 2011, but I won't try to predict the future beyond that. I couldn't think of anyone who could and would try it, but then again, if you asked me who would front the next U.S. Grand Prix and where it would be, Tavo Hellmund and Austin wouldn't come to mind. We'll see.

Maybe we won't see another British team in the sport for another decade, but I'd go out on a limb and say that a team based in the UK has a better chance of succeeding over an American based on. The UK probably has more resources and interest for Formula One than America does, and it speaks volumes that Virign, Lotus, McLaren, Mercedes, Renault, Williams and Red Bull are all based in the UK. Obviously there are some advantages to both countries, but not wishing to be biased (I'm not generally a fan of the UK) I'd say that the UK is the more complete package for a team to base if they want to enter the sport.

I just think that the failed efforts of recent American teams recently will have put others off. I can't see anyone who is willing to chance it, let alone get an entry. Besides, for teams like Ganassi or Penske, they wouldn't enter unless they had a 5 second advantage over everybody else and most American drivers would be spitting feathers at the end of the first race because "OMG, that guy blocked me! Wahhhhhh!" plus there's something called "rules". Okay okay, I'll stop dissing the American "racing" scene now.

I'm not trying to be racist or harsh, so don't get me wrong here. If an American team wants a go and somehow DOES get an entry, well, congratulations to them. I just don't see why they should get any preferential treatment because they "are putting F1 back on the map in America" and blah, blah blah. That's just getting old now.

For all the American sponsors in the sport currently, I just find it amazing that American teams fail to attract any of those American companies. Interest for the sport has gone up in America over the past few years, but.....I don't know, it's hard to phrase it right without offending somebody here, which, inevitably I will have done. I just don't see how the likes of Cypher or US F1 would have succeeded even if they had got a car on the grid. Do the American fans really care if there is an American team? Don't they just like the racing? It's nice to see these plucky-underdogs having a go, but ultimately, I don't see them succeeding or surviving beyond a year. And since no "big" teams have the interest to do it, (maybe due to the fact they can't get their head around the fact there's tracks in the world that DON'T go around in a circle....zing!) I don't see any move American involvement as a team again any time in the future.

Sponsors like Monster, YouTube, etc, yes. American drivers? Almost certainly yes. One or more will come along in the future, I'm sure of it. How successful they'd be only time will tell.

But an American team? No. Besides, it'd be sort of cringe worthy to see a car decked out in a livery of their national flag.

[Pucky the Whale 0]

Maybe we won't see another British team in the sport for another decade, but I'd go out on a limb and say that a team based in the UK has a better chance of succeeding over an American based on. The UK probably has more resources and interest for Formula One than America does, and it speaks volumes that Virign, Lotus, McLaren, Mercedes, Renault, Williams and Red Bull are all based in the UK. Obviously there are some advantages to both countries, but not wishing to be biased (I'm not generally a fan of the UK) I'd say that the UK is the more complete package for a team to base if they want to enter the sport.

I just think that the failed efforts of recent American teams recently will have put others off. I can't see anyone who is willing to chance it, let alone get an entry. Besides, for teams like Ganassi or Penske, they wouldn't enter unless they had a 5 second advantage over everybody else and most American drivers would be spitting feathers at the end of the first race because "OMG, that guy blocked me! Wahhhhhh!" plus there's something called "rules". Okay okay, I'll stop dissing the American "racing" scene now.

I'm not trying to be racist or harsh, so don't get me wrong here. If an American team wants a go and somehow DOES get an entry, well, congratulations to them. I just don't see why they should get any preferential treatment because they "are putting F1 back on the map in America" and blah, blah blah. That's just getting old now.

For all the American sponsors in the sport currently, I just find it amazing that American teams fail to attract any of those American companies. Interest for the sport has gone up in America over the past few years, but.....I don't know, it's hard to phrase it right without offending somebody here, which, inevitably I will have done. I just don't see how the likes of Cypher or US F1 would have succeeded even if they had got a car on the grid. Do the American fans really care if there is an American team? Don't they just like the racing? It's nice to see these plucky-underdogs having a go, but ultimately, I don't see them succeeding or surviving beyond a year. And since no "big" teams have the interest to do it, (maybe due to the fact they can't get their head around the fact there's tracks in the world that DON'T go around in a circle....zing!) I don't see any move American involvement as a team again any time in the future.

Sponsors like Monster, YouTube, etc, yes. American drivers? Almost certainly yes. One or more will come along in the future, I'm sure of it. How successful they'd be only time will tell.

But an American team? No. Besides, it'd be sort of cringe worthy to see a car decked out in a livery of their national flag.

I don't disagree that it's easier to be based in the U.K., but I don't think being based outside of it (especially in another English-speaking nation with a high quality of life that employees would be willing to move to, as many ex-Brawn guys were when they joined US F1) is as big of a disadvantage in today's world as it may have been decades ago. No one with any competence has tried it, of course, but I don't think Toyota failed because they were in Germany (the TF109 was not a bad car at all at some tracks, but their drivers weren't super great...Trulli's a mid-packer, Glock's a mid-packer, and Kobayashi was new to F1. We'll never know, but I have a feeling that if the TF110, which was allegedly quite good, had run on a works team with Kamui driving, we may be talking about how improved Toyota were. But we'll never know, of course), or US F1 failed because they were in the United States. From another angle, I think today's successful U.K.-based teams could be successful based elsewhere; there's no sense in moving, of course, but if you're in a location people will be willing to move to, you're fine. It's not like only Brits can work at U.K. teams and only Americans can work at U.S. teams...any number of talented, experienced people from any number of nations can work at any team based anywhere (and they do), so as long as the team isn't based in the middle of a polar desert, I don't think it's a huge disadvantage. Is it best to be in the U.K.? Probably. But I don't think it's as important as everyone thinks it is; not having had many successful teams recently based outside of there doesn't mean there can't be. And a U.S.-owned team doesn't have to be a U.S.-based team. Red Bull's Austrian, Force India's Indian, Lotus is Malaysian...

I disagree. US F1 and Cypher's failures had nothing to do with being U.S. American; they had to do with leadership and the FIA (US F1 entered assuming there'd be a budget cap, which isn't an excuse, but still a factor, and Cypher did not want to pay a non-refundable deposit when they felt Epsilon were going to get the call over them). If a competent U.S.-owned team have the budget, there's no reason for them to feel they'll turn out like US F1 or Cypher. The problem, of course, is having competent leadership and the budget. I don't think we'll see those.

Your attacks on American racing are childish at best. We get it. You don't like the rules. Anyone could argue that any racing series has its gimmicks, too, so just like what you like and ignore what you don't. Just because the IRL has a different blocking rule than F1 doesn't make either right or wrong, and doesn't have any relevance to a U.S.-owned or -based team in F1, or a U.S. driver, or anything. You just wanted a chance to p*ss on something that bothers you more than it should. Many drivers from many nations are known to whine, and since I doubt any U.S. drivers (or any other drivers) will be coming from the IRL, they won't be used to that rule. There are only two or three U.S. drivers in the IRL; the rules change was requested by Latin American, European, Asian, and North American drivers alike. Judging an entire nation of drivers on a sample of one or two is a bit silly.

When did anyone say anything about preferential treatment? Now you're just making things up.

I don't find it surprising; the U.S. sponsors have existing relationships with competitive teams. It's too risky to sign on with a new team. It's more exposure for ExxonMobil to be on the McLaren in a small capacity than have massive branding on a US F1 or Cypher car that may not make the grid (evidently, neither one did). After all, who do you want in your ads? WDCs Lewis and Jenson or José María López and James Rossiter? Not knocking the latter two, but they're lesser known, and therefore have less impact on fans (casual viewers seeing the ads may recognize Lewis and Jenson; they won't recognize two rookies).

Americans don't want to see an unsuccessful team, no, but they all start somewhere. You can't win the WCC your first season out. And U.S. American fans aren't the only ones who want drivers and teams; F1 wasn't even televised in Spain until Alonso came along. Take Jenson and Lewis out and see how many people show up at Silverstone. Every nation has hardcore fans and casual fans. Casual fans are apt to support drivers and teams from their nation; even I, a casual fan myself, find this silly (I wouldn't have supported US F1, as I found them arrogant, and won't support Alexander Rossi if he makes it because he's quite the jerk), but you know, Italians are more prone to like Ferrari, Brits are more prone to like McLaren, etc, etc. It may be wrong, it may be right, but whatever it is...well, it just is. The world isn't perfect.

Who says a U.S. team would run national colors? US F1 were going to run in straight dark blue. Is British Racing Green cringe-worthy to you? Is Jenson's Union Jack helmet cringe-worthy? Is the passionate singing of the Italian national anthem when Ferrari win at Monza cringe-worthy to you? Or is national pride okay when it's for any nation that's not the U.S.?

Do I agree with your final conclusion? Yes. I don't see any U.S. American teams for a while. But I don't agree with how you came to that conclusion.

(I hope my postings have been fair. I don't want to sound like a blind "THE UNITED STATES IS NEVER WRONG, EVERYTHING U.S. IS PERFECT AND GREAT" person, so please pardon me if I have. I've tried my best to not be biased, and to be as fair as possible. Do recall that I was US F1's first critic here, and one of the fiercest).

[yurp 0]

THE UNITED STATES IS NEVER WRONG, EVERYTHING U.S. IS PERFECT AND GREAT

Jeez Eric - You American's are sooo full of yourselves.

I'll bet you're really fat, own a gun and eat at McDonalds every day.

[Pucky the Whale 0]

Jeez Eric - You American's are sooo full of yourselves.

I'll bet you're really fat, own a gun and eat at McDonalds every day.

You must be stalking me!

No, but I won't engage in witty dialogue because I think you've exceeded your government-mandated quota of funnies for the day.

[yurp 0]

You must be stalking me!

No, but I won't engage in witty dialogue because I think you've exceeded your government-mandated quota of funnies for the day.

There's no quota on jokes about Americans - they're positively encouraged. Jokes about the great chairman's penchant for young virgins however...

(I'm talking about di Grassi of course)

[zanet 0]

The operation shut down and they were banned from ever re-entering.

Didn't realise they were banned from re- entering Pucky

[Pucky the Whale 0]

There's no quota on jokes about Americans - they're positively encouraged. Jokes about the great chairman's penchant for young virgins however...

(I'm talking about di Grassi of course)

The Great Chairman has a point, though. In the free world, this happens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctVmNbVu2KA

(In the free world, we can actually watch that video, though).

But really, I think all my posts are about Soviet Russia, Soviet Canada, and Soviet China. I feel like I'm getting stale. So I'm going to try a different joke, one that I read in my economics book, actually, just to enter some new material outside of "in Soviet Russia, young virgins do Great Chairman." Mix it up a little. So here's the joke:

President George Herbert Walker (implied Texas Ranger?) Bush has a golfing accident and goes to the hospital and Dan Quayle becomes president.

The punchline is that Dan Quayle becomes president. Get it?

(Okay, the actual joke was about the Nikkei going way up and Bush asking the price of a loaf of bread and Quayle giving it in yen, but it's much funnier the way I tell it, I think).

[yurp 0]

In the free world, this happens.

(In the free world, we can actually watch that video, though).

Proxy waiting time fun.

it's much funnier the way I tell it, I think

TBH - I prefered your version too. But that doesn't make you clever. Just fat, immodest, responsible for 3rd world famine and the death of my childhood rabbit Piper.

(Along with my dad who is also Amerrrrrrrican and no doubt a crack smoking, basketball player in his spare time.)

[Pucky the Whale 0]

TBH - I prefered your version too. But that doesn't make you clever. Just fat, immodest, responsible for 3rd world famine and the death of my childhood rabbit Piper.

(Along with my dad who is also Amerrrrrrrican and no doubt a crack smoking, basketball player in his spare time.)

I cannot deny any of what you say, but your father being American seems false. No true American would name their son "Adam," that's one of those new weird hippie names for non-Christians who oppose slavery and helped Barack Hussein Obama cheat his way to the 2008 election win. If his middle name isn't "Lee" and if he doesn't use MyFreeSexySingleJewishLowInterestLoans4U.freewebs.com to pay for his lifestyle-enhancing drugs I'm going to call shenanigans on his Americanity.

[yurp 0]

I cannot deny any of what you say, but your father being American seems false. No true American would name their son "Adam," that's one of those new weird hippie names for non-Christians who oppose slavery and helped Barack Hussein Obama cheat his way to the 2008 election win. If his middle name isn't "Lee" and if he doesn't use MyFreeSexySingleJewishLowInterestLoans4U.freewebs.com to pay for his lifestyle-enhancing drugs I'm going to call shenanigans on his Americanity.

I never believed him either.

And I'm changing my name.

[Pucky the Whale 0]

Hmm...has the Great Chairman made you aware of a tune called "Yankee Doodle?"

To that tune...

Limey Adam went to town,

Riding in a Morris;

Stuck some Marmite in his teeth,

But he's British so he has none.

(Of course, as a Yank, I wasn't clever enough to make it rhyme. Maybe if I take out a loan and eat some cheese I'll solve that problem. It's solved all my other ones).

[yurp 0]

Hmm...has the Great Chairman made you aware of a tune called "Yankee Doodle?"

To that tune...

Limey Adam went to town,

Riding in a Morris;

Stuck some Marmite in his teeth,

But he's British so he has none.

And renamed himself Snorris.

(Of course, as a Yank, I wasn't clever enough to make it rhyme. Maybe if I take out a loan and eat some cheese I'll solve that problem. It's solved all my other ones).

Fixed - my superior rhyming skills shine through.

[Pucky the Whale 0]

According to the news, though, some woman ate 181 fried chicken wings in 12 minutes. I think her skills are far superior and much more patriotic and morally justifiable (die early, less Social Security money paid to you). But I do like the new name, though it's debatable if you're actually allowed to have a new name. The Great Leader blessed you with "Adam," and changing it is like saying the "Pledge of Allegiance" to the flag of the United States of America in the morning.

[yurp 0]

According to the news, though, some woman ate 181 fried chicken wings in 12 minutes. I think her skills are far superior and much more patriotic and morally justifiable (die early, less Social Security money paid to you). But I do like the new name, though it's debatable if you're actually allowed to have a new name. The Great Leader blessed you with "Adam," and changing it is like saying the "Pledge of Allegiance" to the flag of the United States of America in the morning.

Hey - I've always wondered about that. Do you have to say the pledge of allegiance? What happens if you refuse? Seriously?

The kids here have to sing the national anthem and salute the flag every Monday morning. I can't think of a better way to make someone despise their gov.

[Pucky the Whale 0]

I'm sure it was stricter in primary school, but I've forgotten everything about primary school but it usually consisted of me having no friends and crying every time I got the wrong answer in math. Which is no different than today.

Presently, in high school, the pledge is read during the daily announcements by the class of 2011 president who is a miserable speaker. It's respectful to stand with one's hand over one's own heart (or a salute if one is in a position to salute. And I think Communists are supposed to do something weird with their hands, too...my Bulgarian classmate always did. Or maybe he was masturbating. I don't know. I was too young at the time to understand. In all seriousness, I do think non-citizens aren't supposed to put their hands on their hearts; Commies aren't supposed to say "under God" because they don't believe in God, hence they added that clause to the Pledge), but saying anything isn't mandatory. Standing depends on the teacher. Some teachers will hold someone back after class if he/she don't stand and administer some kind of discipline (they blasted the Barney & Friends theme song, which is coincidentally to the tune of "Yankee Doodle" and "Limey Snorris," with strobe lights at Guantanamo Bay, so I figure that's what they ought to do here, but I don't know that they do. I always stand. Good exercise). Other teachers just stare at the seated child(ren), which is wrong, because one should actually face the flag. Bad form.

In short (and by adding this, I'm really just making a long post longer), I don't think you have to say it in public school, as long as you're respectful and not sitting/saying something else. I'd say 99% of the time, the entire class just stands in silence (it's usually quieter during the pledge than the moment of silence/prayer time, which I find kind of disappointing, actually).