Vettels Wobbly Wing

[HandyNZL 1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBxNVoMXHz4

For those outside the UK, you may not have seen this, but watch the wing flex one way then the other, then steer Vet straight into Button...maybe it wasn't all his fault. Certainly that wing is STILL flexing.

His steering input is also opposite to that of the wing flex/roll...it certainly seems to be affecting it. Wet track? Hmmmmm...maybe not so...

[Insider 0]

Great stuff, you old Kiwi. Hmmm. The wing appears to move as he comes out of the tow and hits some clear air. It certainly has nothing to do with JB's braking, that's for sure.

[HandyNZL 1]

Here's Webber at Valencia...the wing is moving, though not as extremely as Vettels.

[HandyNZL 1]

OK...Sh#t driving at the end (when he punts Webber), but watch the wing JUST AS HE PULLS OUT TO PASS Webber...the wing rolls again. That has to make the car steering unstable at the very least. Then wags the tail perhaps?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hng4kvk6ypU

(look around 26-30secs)

[HandyNZL 1]

Here's Aussie race this year...image is small, but the wing can be clearly seen to move towards the track when Webber is on the fast bits. Maybe we have all been a bit harsh lately on the crash kid, but as a lawyer might say, there was a mitigating factor, and it appears to be the wing??

Which does open up safety concerns, especially if it starts to roll around in turbulence, which one would think because the wing "thinks" it's going slower so it rises up.

Oh, yeah, and some guy called Bruno is in this clip too.

[Argento Reloaded 1]

I saw the Spa incident many times and is vettel´s fault. he made a huge correction towards Jenson´s car and lost his car.

[pabloh20 1]

I agree with Sean baby on this. It's wobbling around a bit when he's following Jenson and then when he steers right and comes out of Jense's slipstream on the right, it really flexes on the right hand side of the wing. Then when he steers to the left and comes out of Jense's slipstream on the left, it really flexes on the left hand side of the wing. In Russ speak - more wind, more flex

I think I heard it mentioned that they changed the design of the front wing for this weekend?? Although not in response to the more stringent wing test, of course I suppose it's possible they have made the wing more unstable, however, I would have thought if they had changed anything, it would have been to make it more rigid, not more flexible. If it hasn't changed much then you'd have thought he would be used to the characterisitics of it by now, but he may have just been caught out.

Of course it's also possible that there was an issue as the wing does seem to wobble an awful lot in the turbulent air.

[Quiet One 15]

Could have been caused by:

- Some issue with the wing (for example: it wasn't well fitted)

- Or just a case of a BAD (Broken As Designed) wing.

In any case, Vettel, at least in that case, is not guilty (or not that much, at least). As for the wing itself, it passed the FIA's test so whether we like it or not, it IS legal, althoughh obviously kind of unstable. Sounds very Neweyish to me.

Kudos to RBR for the clever design, but if it means that they can't control their own cars under the front car's slipstream (or when getting of the car's slipstream) then either they keep that in account and train their drivers accordingly, or they should do something, not because Macca is moaning that they cheat, but because it is a safety concern.

[Max Mosley 2]

The wing does seem to flex a lot in the most recent example from Spa. It would be interesting to find a video of a McLaren (etc) in a similar situation to compare what their wing does. I heard that McLaren were disappointed with the FIA's solution to this front wing problem, so no doubt they will design front wings to be a bit less strong in future themselves.

[Schumikonen 2]

The wing does seem to flex a lot in the most recent example from Spa. It would be interesting to find a video of a McLaren (etc) in a similar situation to compare what their wing does. I heard that McLaren were disappointed with the FIA's solution to this front wing problem, so no doubt they will design front wings to be a bit less strong in future themselves.

I think we will hear from FIA about this again after watching these evidences of the flexing or at least the moveable front wing, because I think is not flexing but is moving quite a lot, if look at both ends of the wing when one goes up the other one goes down and that is not flexing, it looks more like the wing is very loose.

[james 0]

I think we will hear from FIA about this again after watching these evidences of the flexing or at least the moveable front wing, because I think is not flexing but is moving quite a lot, if look at both ends of the wing when one goes up the other one goes down and that is not flexing, it looks more like the wing is very loose.

Exactly. I think I remember Horner commenting sometime last weekend about how the team with the most flex was a silver car. It looks as though the wing is rotating on an axis. But how or what controls the tilt of the wing is beyond me.

[Schumikonen 2]

Exactly. I think I remember Horner commenting sometime last weekend about how the team with the most flex was a silver car. It looks as though the wing is rotating on an axis. But how or what controls the tilt of the wing is beyond me.

Those are better words to explain what I wanted to say but I still think that "rotation" may fall into the moveable devices.

[Jean Todt 4]

Active wings....

[Max Mosley 2]

How awesome would it be if TF1's Tommy and Craig managed to deduce cheating in F1 and prove it using footage before any stewards.

[Schumikonen 2]

How awesome would it be if TF1's Tommy and Craig managed to deduce cheating in F1 and prove it using footage before any stewards.

That would be great except that for some reason I can't find anything illegal on Mclaren's cars this season not even that bending that Horner is talking about

[Senna's Ghost 0]

I've watched the crash a few times now and there is clearly a number of factors that are taking place in a short period of time.

• Bumpy braking area. You can see the rippling of the track. Vettel gets flex in the tyres.
• Vettel's aggressive movement to the left with the steering wheel, coupled with the vertical movement already happening.
• Track was damp from previous shower. Back end of car breaks away from Vettel and he immediately counter steers to the right.
• Aero downforce is massively reduced whilst braking from the high speed part of the circuit making the car significantly lighter, thus adding to a bad situation.

All of this is happening within about 3 seconds.

I think the flexing wing is simply showing us the forces and movements that the car is being subjected to at the time and it is not the smoking gun. But it is the smoke.

I feel a bit like Quincey.

Tchau.

[HandyNZL 1]

Okies...Macca wing movement...minute compared to RBR, but still can be seen to move downwards on the long straight and the straight after turn 8. Watch the inboard end of the wishbones and this is where you can most notice the wing dip as the wishbone mount is (obviously) not moving.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_z2fWNMcmE

Damn this clip looks like a video game.....but how do we tell a video game from the real thing? No friggin' fans in the grandstands, that's how

[Medilloni 6]

Okies...Macca wing movement...minute compared to RBR...........

Indeed, can't be compared in the teeniest weensiest bit, as I so intelligently posted in the Alonso Flies South thread (aka, the wrong thread)....... cop for this:

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/1728/29611120.gif

There's something afoot, definitely a gun of the smoking kind

Of further interest (to me!), is, when Vet pulls out from behind JB, as he steers back to the right (just before the back end waves goodbye) he momentarily gets a huge understeer moment. And just for the record, Button says it wasn't wet, and has invited Horner to check out his telemetry to prove he didn't brake early - it was precisely the same trace as the previous lap

The stewards should put a lazer/infra-red measuring device (cheap, tiny, accurate) on the wings to determine acceptable movement, and bollocks to all this static test sh1te. Toyota had to make huge changes to their bendy rear wing a couple of years ago, even though it passed all the static tests. The observers reported it to the stewards as suspiciously boingy, and it was sorted immediately, strange it's not happening now..........

[pabloh20 1]

Indeed, can't be compared in the teeniest weensiest bit, as I so intelligently posted in the Alonso Flies South thread (aka, the wrong thread)....... cop for this:

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/1728/29611120.gif

There's something afoot, definitely a gun of the smoking kind

Of further interest (to me!), is, when Vet pulls out from behind JB, as he steers back to the right (just before the back end waves goodbye) he momentarily gets a huge understeer moment. And just for the record, Button says it wasn't wet, and has invited Horner to check out his telemetry to prove he didn't brake early - it was precisely the same trace as the previous lap

The stewards should put a lazer/infra-red measuring device (cheap, tiny, accurate) on the wings to determine acceptable movement, and bollocks to all this static test sh1te. Toyota had to make huge changes to their bendy rear wing a couple of years ago, even though it passed all the static tests. The observers reported it to the stewards as suspiciously boingy, and it was sorted immediately, strange it's not happening now..........

That's because the boingy rule has changed. Keep up with the times

[cdnfan 0]

That's because the boingy rule has changed. Keep up with the times

what i am wondering, is how does the 100 Kgs used in the static test compare to the reality of the amount of downforce that would be generated once the car goes over 100 kmph. with all the downforce they seem to be able to generate at speed, could it be that the wing generates the equivalent of several hundred Kgs once the car goes faster than say 100 kmph?

[JHS 1]

I think the guys at RBR said immediately after Spa that the wing wasn't to blame. To me both look like simple mistakes to be honest.

[Kopite Girl 0]

THEY'RE CHEATING!

No? Just thought maybe I'd throw a spanner in the works.

[HandyNZL 1]

THEY'RE CHEATING!

No? Just thought maybe I'd throw a spanner in the works.

Is it their fault the rules don't encompass Newey's genius?

[Delta 0]

The RBR wing is clearly flexing, but the suspicion is and has been for a long time that it is something to do with the way it is mounted to the floor of the car. Hard to say for certain, but it is clear they have a flexing front wing. RBR appear to have taken the Ferrari mantle of innovatively finding gaps in the rules.

[HandyNZL 1]

Ferrari never found gaps...they just used their veto powers to rescind any punishment metted out to them. They've done nothing innovative since last century...