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Quiet One

Ferrari Keeps _Smiling_

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Don't talk about people's c*cks hanging out. You'll get Handy's hopes up.

As for Ferrari and this nonsense, well, the FOM told Ferrari to cheat to create controversy and viewer interest, and then paid Ferrari's fine to the FIA for them, and instructed FIA to do no more. Clearly.

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They (team orders) were always available for teams to use when needed, and it helped avoiding a clash between team members. Team orders came to existence after it was realized how it could be misused by teams. After the rule was brought into effect, the use aspect of it was banned too, which should have been reviewed while the rule book was being re-written.

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In all of those examples you have given, I guess it could be said that whether it was really subjective, we can't prove that it was team orders, in the Ferrari case it was abundantly clear.

However what I am advocating is not that they where any worse than anyone else for actually doing it, but for the way they tried to cover their actions up to the press and fans, lying to the fans is unacceptable. I don't believe that Ferrari where given favourable treatment at all, the FIA have had a recent history of leniency towards cheating, look at how easily Renault got away with Crashgate, and McLaren with Liegate. What Ferrari did was no worse than what the other teams did, however the way they made a public hash of it and then tried to deceive everyone was, as I said beneath contempt. If you are caught with your pants down, you admit your mistake and pull them back up, you don't walk around with your c*** hanging out lying about it.

I did not expect them to confess. That would be admiting rule breaking, thus penalty would be inevitable. So it was completely logical why they played stupid games with explanations. Everything else would blatant confession and FIA would be obliged to punish theme severely. With team unwilling to admit it, FIA had no evidence to punish them, so they did not.

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I did not expect them to confess. That would be admiting rule breaking, thus penalty would be inevitable. So it was completely logical why they played stupid games with explanations. Everything else would blatant confession and FIA would be obliged to punish theme severely. With team unwilling to admit it, FIA had no evidence to punish them, so they did not.

Actually, the FIA did not overturn the verdict, they just didn't find any evidence that suggested further punishment was merited. Everyone already knew Ferrari where guilty, their lies did not help their case.

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Actually, the FIA did not overturn the verdict, they just didn't find any evidence that suggested further punishment was merited. Everyone already knew Ferrari where guilty, their lies did not help their case.

I think in the civil court proceeding Ferrari would be found not guilty and FIA embarrased once again (Stalin style proceedings against Briatore).

I agree they issued team order but evidence is circumstantial. There is no witness confirming "team order theory" so it should not be considered as proven. There are many more or less probable stories that can fit same facts.

Stefano Domenicali is the one to blame for unnecessary costs (financial and reputation) Ferrari had to suffer. He handled situation poorly, like he was born night before the race.

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I think in the civil court proceeding Ferrari would be found not guilty and FIA embarrased once again (Stalin style proceedings against Briatore).

I agree they issued team order but evidence is circumstantial. There is no witness confirming "team order theory" so it should not be considered as proven. There are many more or less probable stories that can fit same facts.

Stefano Domenicali is the one to blame for unnecessary costs (financial and reputation) Ferrari had to suffer. He handled situation poorly, like he was born night before the race.

Answer me this...

On how many occasions can you think of that you would need to affix the term "Can you confirm that you understood this message" to telling one driver that another is faster. It's not like Rob was trying to teach Felipe quantum mechanics is it.

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Answer me this...

On how many occasions can you think of that you would need to affix the term "Can you confirm that you understood this message" to telling one driver that another is faster. It's not like Rob was trying to teach Felipe quantum mechanics is it.

"Can you confirm you understood..." can be used by race engineer if he thinks that radio might be broken so he needs driver to confirm that message is received, especially if there was no response on previous 3 occasions.

I agree it IS team order but if no living creature involved in the incident is willing to confirm it you do not have the case.

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"Can you confirm you understood..." can be used by race engineer if he thinks that radio might be broken so he needs driver to confirm that message is received, especially if there was no response on previous 3 occasions.

I agree it IS team order but if no living creature involved in the incident is willing to confirm it you do not have the case.

Well I guess the incident is over now so it's just a matter of opinion, but I am sure most of us can agree that the current rule does need tweaking.

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all the problems aside with TEAM orders, Ferrari seem doomed because of the lack of an engine that will last the distance, so for the upcoming races grid spot penalties are a foregone conclusion YIPPEE :-)

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all the problems aside with TEAM orders, Ferrari seem doomed because of the lack of an engine that will last the distance, so for the upcoming races grid spot penalties are a foregone conclusion YIPPEE :-)

Well they have 5 races to do with both Massa and Alonso on their last engines. For their sake, I hope they have at least one spare capable of doing a race or 2 otherwise they will be a bit edgy on reliability.

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Well they have 5 races to do with both Massa and Alonso on their last engines. For their sake, I hope they have at least one spare capable of doing a race or 2 otherwise they will be a bit edgy on reliability.

With no track particularly demanding on engines, they could very well survive recycling the older engines. The only concern I think would be Interlagos. That track used to be an engine killer and you can't attack on the long pseudo straight to the finish line without having utter confidence on your engine. Anyways, by then they will probably already be out of contention or, if still on the hunt, it may even be worth the penalty.

So, in the end, I don't see it being much of an influence in how to approach the races. Engine problems might affect their final result but then again, that is something other teams should be as concerned about (except Renault, of course :P)

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Ferrari engines from one Croatian F1 forum (user Kyrka):

1.motor- bahrein, promijenjen prije utrke

2.motor- utrka u bahreinu, malezija(tamo otkazao)

3.motor- australija, kina

4.motor- španjolska, monako, turska

5.motor- kanada, valencija, engleska

6.motor- njemačka, mađarska

7.motor-belgija

8.motor- italija

let's see if you need translation!

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Well I can see that Engine 7 has only done Belgium, so that's a candidate for re-use, is that the case for Massa and Alonso?

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I think Alonso. Alonso had engine failure in Malezia.

Engine 6 also has only 2 races

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I think Alonso. Alonso had engine failure in Malezia.

Engine 6 also has only 2 races

He had one during the Bahrain race as well, he's lost 2 of his engines, but looking at it from that perspective, it isn't as marginal as it appeared, as long as Ferrari have no more technical problems with the engines with the lowest amount of usage on them, I feel they will be fine. I doubt the older engines will go back into race, they will probably be used for practise.

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