Massa A Naughty Boy?

[HandyNZL 1]

“I have waited for Felipe with great perseverance in the last four races" so says Luca di Mozzerella-cheese.

Sounds to me like Massa is getting a bit chastised here, and maybe he isn't on such stable ground at Ferrari as thought. Maybe it's just a swift kick up the butt to encourage the likely lad, but, I think, sadly, Massa's Ferrari sojourn is coming to a close in the near future, and has done nothing but head south since "that pass".

Maybe Luca want's a true number two, as he follows it up to say "Those who race for Ferrari don’t race for themselves, but for the Ferrari team colours". Hmmmm. Whilst true in one respect, the drivers compete firstly for themselves, which is why they always try and get their butts in the best car they possibly can. F1 is still a sport. Sure, companies are involved, and pay the bills, but the guys do it because they want to beat the next guy, not because they want to get promoted to a new corner office.

I think Ferrari just want F1 to be some sort of pre-organised business venture. Unfortunately, motorsport can not be predicted with pie-charts and Gantt time lines. It's about passion, it's about engineering, it's about competition. I think, in a way, Ferrari have lost sight of that. They run around like the class bully, saying slow cars shouldn't be there, saying they should be allowed three cars, saying that if they didn't turn up, the world would stop spinning.

[Delta 0]

I guess they are trying to engineer a return to the Schumacher glory days with Alonso, where they had a system where there was a clear #1 and #2 and obviously Felipe is reluctant to play that game and I can't really blame him.

[tifosi too! 0]

Well, Ferrari, or any other F1 team, is not your everyday local business!

Only money, results and skill can let you stay!

If FM continues to under-perform (he was in fact the leading driver the past two years), I don't see Ferrari retaining him.

Of course they will be right to do so. They have millions of fans and billions of dollars dangling above their heads. Emotion has no business here. A certain level of success is required and there is no way to stay if he doesn't live up to it.

I like him and I believe in his skills btw. But I haven't seen much of him this year. Maybe his accident has something to do with it, but he is never -in the mix-. He doesn't take points off other drivers/teams and he hasn't done his championship bid any favor.

Sure, he could have won in Germany but still he is long way from Alonso, or the form he was in a couple of seasons back.

I hope this is just as obvious to him as it is for Ferrari, Montezemolo, the fans and everyone else.

[Delta 0]

With F1 the way it is nowadays, I can't see many top line drivers wanting to take a seat where they practically know they are going to be somebody's #2.

[KoolMonkey 0]

Oh dear, poor Massa. It's clear somethings not quite right with him at Ferrari. I don't think it's his reluctance to play the #2, but the Ferrari heads putting more blame onto Massa's shoulders. If Alonso doesn't win the WDC, I'm sure Luca and that other twit who runs the teams will blame Massa for not taking enough points away from the other guys. Far be it for Alonso to do anything himself, but to drag the poor Brazillian into the mix is a bit much. I've got sympathy for Massa but am not a fan. However, he doesn't deserve this treatment, but the reality is he won't find a better drive anywhere else. Sauber, Williams, maybe a longshot at Renault but no chance in hell of RBR, McLaren or Merc.

[Delta 0]

He hasn't been the same since he came back from his crash. I don't know if it's to do with the changes to the cars, or any physical/emotional damage, but whatever the reason, he's a shadow of its former self. Sadly I feel that losing the championship to Lewis at the last corner of the last race will go down in the history books as the defining moment of his career

[KoolMonkey 0]

I think so too. Brazil 2008 will always be the pinnacle of his career. There's no way he will be in a position now to win a WDC with Ferrari. None, zilch, nada. Ferrari is Alonso's team, and you can bet when they announce the removal of team orders, it'll be the Schumi era all over again. Accept I don't think they will ever have a car that dominated like in the past, but that's another topic.

If Massa is being paid well, and still gets the chance for an odd race victory, then he's still in the best seat he will ever get. So it's accept it, pull a Rubens and think you can do better in a lesser team, or quit.

[wapi 4]

I think so too. Brazil 2008 will always be the pinnacle of his career. There's no way he will be in a position now to win a WDC with Ferrari. None, zilch, nada. Ferrari is Alonso's team, and you can bet when they announce the removal of team orders, it'll be the Schumi era all over again. Accept I don't think they will ever have a car that dominated like in the past, but that's another topic.

If Massa is being paid well, and still gets the chance for an odd race victory, then he's still in the best seat he will ever get. So it's accept it, pull a Rubens and think you can do better in a lesser team, or quit.

I completely agree.

[JHS 1]

He's a talented driver. I think he's improving with every race since his injury.

I hope Ferrari don't just put all their eggs in the Alonso basket year on year. I think Alonso's a better driver, but surely they have a better chance at the title with two drivers in contention than one. I'm not confident Ferrari and their Italian logic will see it that way though.

[Eric 0]

The problem is that they might not be in better contention with two drivers. Massa's gain can hurt Alonso; Ferrari probably have the resources to put two competitive units out there, but Alonso's always struggled mentally against competitive teammates. No, he didn't roll over and die against Hamilton, but he did make mistakes, and he did let Hamilton get the best of him plenty of times. Would the same happen with Massa? They may gain 20 points letting Massa loose, but if they lose 21 of Alonso's because of it, what's the point?

It's just not meant to work out for some people. Massa's one of those people. He's yielded wins to Räikkönen and Alonso (maybe Schumacher, too, but none stand out), lost a WDC in the final corner, and had a massive injury that he'll never be 100% after (I've seen plenty of athletes in all sorts of sports; no one comes back from a head injury and performs at the same level). C'est la vie.

I'm sure Massa's finding it hard to be number two when he was number one for two years; it's a big insult, in a way, to be a great competitor (out-scoring his teammate over their time together) and then see your team have so little confidence in you that they draft someone better to displace you. Ferrari aren't wrong to do it, but I can see how it would hurt Massa's confidence. Knowing you did all that work and took such a risk to come back, only to find out you're no longer allowed to win, and no longer trusted to win, just doesn't create a good environment for being successful.

Will Massa leave? No. Ferrari offers a nice paycheck and solid job security. They know and like him there, even if the management like someone else a bit more. He'll only consider bolting if Domenicalli loses his job...especially if Briatore is the replacement. There does come a point in one's career (again, in all sports) when being the second-string on a big team (and having a chance to win, but not be the star) is less rewarding than stepping back and doing something meaningful (i.e. mentoring a younger teammate, returning a team to the podium, making a back-marker a points-scorer). I don't think Massa's quite at the age he'll see things that way, though.

[Autumnpuma 0]

The problem is that they might not be in better contention with two drivers. Massa's gain can hurt Alonso; Ferrari probably have the resources to put two competitive units out there, but Alonso's always struggled mentally against competitive teammates. No, he didn't roll over and die against Hamilton, but he did make mistakes, and he did let Hamilton get the best of him plenty of times. Would the same happen with Massa? They may gain 20 points letting Massa loose, but if they lose 21 of Alonso's because of it, what's the point?

It's just not meant to work out for some people. Massa's one of those people. He's yielded wins to Räikkönen and Alonso (maybe Schumacher, too, but none stand out), lost a WDC in the final corner, and had a massive injury that he'll never be 100% after (I've seen plenty of athletes in all sorts of sports; no one comes back from a head injury and performs at the same level). C'est la vie.

I'm sure Massa's finding it hard to be number two when he was number one for two years; it's a big insult, in a way, to be a great competitor (out-scoring his teammate over their time together) and then see your team have so little confidence in you that they draft someone better to displace you. Ferrari aren't wrong to do it, but I can see how it would hurt Massa's confidence. Knowing you did all that work and took such a risk to come back, only to find out you're no longer allowed to win, and no longer trusted to win, just doesn't create a good environment for being successful.

Will Massa leave? No. Ferrari offers a nice paycheck and solid job security. They know and like him there, even if the management like someone else a bit more. He'll only consider bolting if Domenicalli loses his job...especially if Briatore is the replacement. There does come a point in one's career (again, in all sports) when being the second-string on a big team (and having a chance to win, but not be the star) is less rewarding than stepping back and doing something meaningful (i.e. mentoring a younger teammate, returning a team to the podium, making a back-marker a points-scorer). I don't think Massa's quite at the age he'll see things that way, though.

That is an amazingly accurate view of the situation as a whole and Massa in specific. Damn you, you're giving the impression that Americans actually know what we're talking about.

[Quiet One 15]

Yup, I agree with Mike agreeing with Eric. Anything that could be said about Massa was already said. I still wonder why the extra humiliation from LdM, though. One thing is the fact that Massa becoming FA's bitch is as good as it will get for him, another entirely different thing is to proclaim that to the entire world. Perhaps Hockenheim has made more damage to the Ferrari- Massa relationship than we know about.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

The problem is that they might not be in better contention with two drivers. Massa's gain can hurt Alonso; Ferrari probably have the resources to put two competitive units out there, but Alonso's always struggled mentally against competitive teammates. No, he didn't roll over and die against Hamilton, but he did make mistakes, and he did let Hamilton get the best of him plenty of times. Would the same happen with Massa? They may gain 20 points letting Massa loose, but if they lose 21 of Alonso's because of it, what's the point?

It's just not meant to work out for some people. Massa's one of those people. He's yielded wins to Räikkönen and Alonso (maybe Schumacher, too, but none stand out), lost a WDC in the final corner, and had a massive injury that he'll never be 100% after (I've seen plenty of athletes in all sorts of sports; no one comes back from a head injury and performs at the same level). C'est la vie.

I'm sure Massa's finding it hard to be number two when he was number one for two years; it's a big insult, in a way, to be a great competitor (out-scoring his teammate over their time together) and then see your team have so little confidence in you that they draft someone better to displace you. Ferrari aren't wrong to do it, but I can see how it would hurt Massa's confidence. Knowing you did all that work and took such a risk to come back, only to find out you're no longer allowed to win, and no longer trusted to win, just doesn't create a good environment for being successful.

Will Massa leave? No. Ferrari offers a nice paycheck and solid job security. They know and like him there, even if the management like someone else a bit more. He'll only consider bolting if Domenicalli loses his job...especially if Briatore is the replacement. There does come a point in one's career (again, in all sports) when being the second-string on a big team (and having a chance to win, but not be the star) is less rewarding than stepping back and doing something meaningful (i.e. mentoring a younger teammate, returning a team to the podium, making a back-marker a points-scorer). I don't think Massa's quite at the age he'll see things that way, though.

yes, lovely stuff

[KoolMonkey 0]

Montezemolo: Felipe still a number one

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/244159/montezemolo-felipe-still-a-number-one/

Ferrari Chairman Luca di Montezemolo has stated that Felipe Massa remains a ‘number one’ driver to the team, despite the events of this year’s German Grand Prix which involved the Brazilian having to yield the race lead to team-mate Fernando Alonso.

With the Italian squad electing to focus this year’s efforts on the Spaniard for victory in the Drivers’ Championship, question marks have been raised over Massa’s eternal status in the team although di Montezemolo’s remarks are clear.

“Felipe is and will always stay a number one driver for Ferrari,” he said, preparing to watch this weekend’s Japanese Grand Prix from the company’s base in Maranello.

“I expect the performances of a number one driver from him – both in the next four races and, with different tyres, next year.

“Those will be crucial to bring us wins next season and to take important points from our opponents in the battle for this World Championship.”

It's clear Luca wants Massa to be a #1 in terms of results, but the last sentence should tell you all about the Ferrari inner goings on. He didn't say he is happy for Massa to race for a WDC himself, rather to take points away from their opponents. ie. to help Alonso win a WDC. That's a #2 Luca!

[yurp 0]

Montezemolo: Felipe still a number one

http://www.gpupdate....l-a-number-one/

To paraphrase - We want Massa to be our #1 driver apart from when he's beating our real #1 driver.

[wapi 4]

LCdM produced his usual. He was so contradictory that whatever happens he can always say "I told you so." They are trying to motivate Massa to help Alonso and not feel too bad about it. But...

[HandyNZL 1]

....but they are c0cks....come on...just say it

[KoolMonkey 0]

Ferrari under Luca are c0cks yes. Poor Massa. I'm not sure I ever recall Rubens getting this treatment in public. At least back then they did it in private. But these public statements could almost be taken as insults, or some form of threat.

I just hope team orders are not removed, though what Ferrari did recently and getting away with it, just means more will do the same.

[HandyNZL 1]

I see Mr Dementia is saying that Massa is staying with Ferrari next season. Hmmmm...just what he said about Raikonnen, whom technically still is with Ferrari this season...or at least his bank account details are.

If anything holds true to form in F1, it's when a denial is actually true.

[Delta 0]

This weekend's performance will not really do Massa a whole lot of good. Shame for him.

[Quiet One 15]

No more simpathy for Mr.Massa. Granted, he has fallen from Ferrari's heaven. Granted, he had all the bad luck that Nr.2 drivers usually get (no irony intended here, we've all seen how nr.2 drivers usually suffer all the mechanical gremlins, worst traffic, etc.) But this weekend he did a less than optimal qualy (traffic might account for some of the difference, but not for all of it, he was nowhere near the top drivers...and nr.2 or not he is still driving a Ferrari last time I checked, not a Virgin) On top of that, he decided to try if driving over the grass will do his chances any good? This is the guy that people will say "helped" Alonso if he becomes a WDC? He can't help himself. Blame it on last year's accident or Alonso's machiavelical machinations, he still seems like he has severe limitations in his driving skills. 2008 might have fooled us for a while, but he really needs to wake up before he finds himself reading Eric's posts about NASCAR to convince himself that it is no shame going there (the same way it would be no shame for a boxing champion to move onto WWE...ahem...)

[JHS 1]

Today was amatuer hour by Massa.

Saying that, I'm always in huge respect of these guys (even Lewis ), espacially around such a daunting track.

[KoolMonkey 0]

A poor day for Massa indeed. He's a driver that when on pole and in clear air with the fastest car, and win races. But put most of the current F1 drivers in that same position and I think they'd probably win races too.

Massa is terrible in the pack and only ever shined out in front. A sad day if you're one of his supporters, but really it's the realization that most of us have known all along. He's better than average when it comes to F1.