JHS

Korean Gp

186 posts in this topic

Ok, that was really...eventful. A historical race if there ever was one. Not as exciting in the way I hoped it to be (I was hoping for more battles among the top five) but will certainly be memorable for generations to come. A great, solid win for Nando, Vettel and Webbo suffering from bad luck (yeah, I know Webber was to blame for his accident, but then again it was one of those tiny mistakes composed with bad luck that every other driver suffered this season). Hamilton drove a great race, too, but I think he was too aggressive for his own good, had he watched his tyres better, he might have kept the lead until the end or at least tried. Button was the worst of the bunch by far, too many strategic misjudgements meant that he was lucky just to bring the car home.

A wonderful race by Schumi, a barely discrete race for Kubica, and DoD for Liuzzi. Not only did he finish 6th, but if you take into account how much time he spent spinning, going off track and almost crashing anybody around, you can safely assume that, if not for those factors, he could have finished 1st, about half an hour in front of Alonso.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm glad Korea made it interesting, but it's still Webber's title.

After Brazil

1. Fernando Alonso (246)

2. Mark Webber (245)

3. Sebastian Vettel (224)

4. Lewis Hamilton (222)

Final Classification

1. Mark Webber (260)

2. Fernando Alonso (258)

3. Sebastian Vettel (249)

4. Lewis Hamilton (240)

Edited by Eric

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That wasn't his fault though, was it?

Feel gutted for Vettel. He'd driven superbly and I have to say he conducted himself very well in the interviews afterwards, shows some of the others how it should be done.

Happy for Alonso though. I want either Vettel or Alonso to win the title, so it was a 50/50 race really for me. :P

Well worth the early alarm call, although the FIA could have been kind enough to have told us we could have an hour longer in bed! I think they should have gone racing earlier than they did. Overall though, entertaining and enthralling race. Can't wait to Brazil!

No...it shows someone had a word in his ear after Turkey to stop acting the brat :P

Or he is now resigned to helping rear gun for Webber.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even with the rain, there wasn't masses of overtaking, but it certainly delivered on drama. Shame for seb as he drove perfectly, but once again Red Bull have shot themselves in the foot at a crucial time. McLaren whilst gaining in points will still leave scratching their heads about where their pace went. Lewis is still in it, but McLaren still need to find something extra.

Certainly isn't failing to deliver drama though this season

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And I see Horner still won't back Webber....though he is telling Macca to tell Button to support Hamilton?

Horner is going to cost RED BULL a world championship, and hand it on a silver platter to Alonso.

There are too many "ifs" in my view for Seb to come back now from 25 points down....if Webber does this, if Alonso doesn't do that, if McLaren can do this, then maybe, possibly, perhaps......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No...it shows someone had a word in his ear after Turkey to stop acting the brat :P

Or he is now resigned to helping rear gun for Webber.

Ha, like Webber's not acted that way during this season....:whistling:

And I see Horner still won't back Webber....though he is telling Macca to tell Button to support Hamilton?

Horner is going to cost RED BULL a world championship, and hand it on a silver platter to Alonso.

There are too many "ifs" in my view for Seb to come back now from 25 points down....if Webber does this, if Alonso doesn't do that, if McLaren can do this, then maybe, possibly, perhaps......

He's still got a mathematical chance, what's the issue? :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And I see Horner still won't back Webber....though he is telling Macca to tell Button to support Hamilton?

Horner is going to cost RED BULL a world championship, and hand it on a silver platter to Alonso.

There are too many "ifs" in my view for Seb to come back now from 25 points down....if Webber does this, if Alonso doesn't do that, if McLaren can do this, then maybe, possibly, perhaps......

If he can argue that Lewis has a chance 21 points down, then surely he can also argue seb has a chance 25 points down?

If push comes to shove I feel Webber will probably get favourable treatment, but horner can't completely write seb off. However as Jenson is 43 points behind, he'd realistically need all of his major rivals to either DNF or score no points in the last 2 races, and for me as crazy as it's been for all 4 drivers ahead of him to have 2 non scoring races in a row is highly unlikely. McLaren would be entirely right to support Lewis, and Jenson probably realises this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ha, like Webber's not acted that way during this season....:whistling:

He's still got a mathematical chance, what's the issue? :P

His mathematical chance will hinder Webbers mathematical chance, which in turn would increase Alonso's mathematical chance.

I've been saying for races and races now, that just because there are 100 points for first, and there are four races to go, and if you are 99 points adrift you can still win. You can't, and never will.

Now seb is 25 points behind, and even if he wins the next two, and webber comes second in each, then he only ends up equal with webber, and if alonso just finishes third in the next two, he'll be WDC (i think). Ergo, the chances of Webber winning the WDC are higher for him, if he finishes first in the next two races, he win the WDC, even if Alonso finishes second in both of them, therefore he should be the one supported by the team. Had Vettel not expired today, then I would say Webber will have to support him to see off Alonso, but he expired, and frankly so too his realistic chances.

If there were still four races to go, I'd say, let them race. But there isn't four races. There are only two. And RBR will chuck away the WDC by not making a necessary decision.

To let them race is stupid, and a more experienced team manager would realise this and act accordingly. It is never about the maths.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If he can argue that Lewis has a chance 21 points down, then surely he can also argue seb has a chance 25 points down?

If push comes to shove I feel Webber will probably get favourable treatment, but horner can't completely write seb off. However as Jenson is 43 points behind, he'd realistically need all of his major rivals to either DNF or score no points in the last 2 races, and for me as crazy as it's been for all 4 drivers ahead of him to have 2 non scoring races in a row is highly unlikely. McLaren would be entirely right to support Lewis, and Jenson probably realises this.

Push has come to shove. Horner is just to inexperienced to see this. (Or hamstrung by someone above him)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That wasn't his fault though, was it?

Feel gutted for Vettel. He'd driven superbly and I have to say he conducted himself very well in the interviews afterwards, shows some of the others how it should be done.

Happy for Alonso though. I want either Vettel or Alonso to win the title, so it was a 50/50 race really for me. :P

Well worth the early alarm call, although the FIA could have been kind enough to have told us we could have an hour longer in bed! I think they should have gone racing earlier than they did. Overall though, entertaining and enthralling race. Can't wait to Brazil!

Was always Kimi's fault when his engine went bang......was always Hamiltons fault when his tyres ran out of tread....was Alonso's fault when monobrows made it back into fashion....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Now seb is 25 14 points behind, and even if he wins the next two, and webber comes second in each, then he only ends up equal with webber, and if alonso just finishes third in the next two, he'll be WDC (i think). Ergo, the chances of Webber winning the WDC are higher for him, if he finishes first in the next two races, he win the WDC, even if Alonso finishes second in both of them, therefore he should be the one supported by the team. Had Vettel not expired today, then I would say Webber will have to support him to see off Alonso, but he expired, and frankly so too his realistic chances.

Vettel + 50 = 256 (2 wins)

Webber + 36 = 256 (2 seconds)

Alonso + 30 = 261 (2 thirds)

Yes - you are right.

But what if alonso doesn't take 3rd but 4th instead? (i.e.Hamilton gets in on the mix)

Alonso + 24 = 255

Hmm. If Vettel wins the next 2 races he does have a serious chance of taking the WDC.

Saying that I don't think he'll win both Brazil and Abu Dhabi myself, so on that point I agree.

If I were Horner, I don't think I'd give him the order to help Mark until after Brazil myself - see what happens there first.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Vettel + 50 = 256 (2 wins)

Webber + 36 = 256 (2 seconds)

Alonso + 30 = 261 (2 thirds)

Yes - you are right.

But what if alonso doesn't take 3rd but 4th instead? (i.e.Hamilton gets in on the mix)

Alonso + 24 = 255

Hmm. If Vettel wins the next 2 races he does have a serious chance of taking the WDC.

Saying that I don't think he'll win both Brazil and Abu Dhabi myself, so on that point I agree.

If I were Horner, I don't think I'd give him the order to help Mark until after Brazil myself - see what happens there first.

Alonso only needs 25pts from the final two races to ensure more points that Vettel. So Vettel may have a mathematical chance but a realistic chance - maybe/probably not.

I think the Red Bull strategy will be defined due to positions during the next race. If Vettel is leading, Webber second and Alonso third, then the decision might be to have Webber overtake Vettel. If Alonso is well back in the field, then no team orders.

Will Vettel use an old engine (and use it for 2 races) or take a new engine with a grid penalty as he has used up all his engines?

Imagine if Red Bull stuff it up and end up with Number 3 & 4 on their cars next year !!!! I would not want to be Horner!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alonso only needs 25pts from the final two races to ensure more points that Vettel. So Vettel may have a mathematical chance but a realistic chance - maybe/probably not.

I think the Red Bull strategy will be defined due to positions during the next race. If Vettel is leading, Webber second and Alonso third, then the decision might be to have Webber overtake Vettel. If Alonso is well back in the field, then no team orders.

Will Vettel use an old engine (and use it for 2 races) or take a new engine with a grid penalty as he has used up all his engines?

Imagine if Red Bull stuff it up and end up with Number 3 & 4 on their cars next year !!!! I would not want to be Horner!

Agreed on all of that.

I didn't know that was Vettel's last engine - wow!

If he takes the 5 place drop, he'll be accepting that he's out of the WDC. Tricky choice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My point is that Alonso doesn't need to race the RBR's if RBR allows them to race....he only has to worry about getting thirds. He can just shrug his shoulders and say to himself "what idiots" and drive like a nana to his third WDC. Macca are behind Ferrari now in car pace. Their blown diffuser is not working for them, like it is Ferrari and RBR.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My point is that Alonso doesn't need to race the RBR's if RBR allows them to race....he only has to worry about getting thirds. He can just shrug his shoulders and say to himself "what idiots" and drive like a nana to his third WDC. Macca are behind Ferrari now in car pace. Their blown diffuser is not working for them, like it is Ferrari and RBR.

I can't believe the luck of this ****ing prick! another flippin inherited win!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

His mathematical chance will hinder Webbers mathematical chance, which in turn would increase Alonso's mathematical chance.

Although I'm a seb fan, Red Bull has to do the obvious and support Webber, unless Alonso blows in the next race....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't believe the luck of this ****ing prick! another flippin inherited win!

Luck? inherited WIN? you are a *****ing prick>>> Alonso is a brilliant racing driver..the best out there and he showed it on sunday..absolute delight watching a TRUE champion!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Luck? inherited WIN? you are a *****ing prick>>> Alonso is a brilliant racing driver..the best out there and he showed it on sunday..absolute delight watching a TRUE champion!!!

This is the exactly the problem I have with you die-hard fernando fans... please look up the word inherited as I don't think nincompoop fans of Fernando are able to comprehend it.

Edited by BradSpeedMan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, that was really...eventful. A historical race if there ever was one. Not as exciting in the way I hoped it to be (I was hoping for more battles among the top five) but will certainly be memorable for generations to come. A great, solid win for Nando, Vettel and Webbo suffering from bad luck (yeah, I know Webber was to blame for his accident, but then again it was one of those tiny mistakes composed with bad luck that every other driver suffered this season). Hamilton drove a great race, too, but I think he was too aggressive for his own good, had he watched his tyres better, he might have kept the lead until the end or at least tried. Button was the worst of the bunch by far, too many strategic misjudgements meant that he was lucky just to bring the car home.

A wonderful race by Schumi, a barely discrete race for Kubica, and DoD for Liuzzi. Not only did he finish 6th, but if you take into account how much time he spent spinning, going off track and almost crashing anybody around, you can safely assume that, if not for those factors, he could have finished 1st, about half an hour in front of Alonso.

+1 agree

Alonso will win the WDC now - his 3rd. If he does it will be the best of the lot even topping 2006. It will be deserved IMO as he has demonstrated that he is the most complete driver in F1.

Lewis' time will come ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A bizarre race climaxing a bizarre race weekend. (And so much for my Saturday morning concerns about Webber starting on the dirty side of the track...)

While the championship is now more tightly focused as they head to Brazil, reliability can still be a huge factor for any of the key players. The fat lady is in the wings but she hasn't sung yet. That said, Brazil should be fantastic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Vettel + 50 = 256 (2 wins)

Webber + 36 = 256 (2 seconds)

Alonso + 30 = 261 (2 thirds)

Yes - you are right.

But what if alonso doesn't take 3rd but 4th instead? (i.e.Hamilton gets in on the mix)

Alonso + 24 = 255

Hmm. If Vettel wins the next 2 races he does have a serious chance of taking the WDC.

Saying that I don't think he'll win both Brazil and Abu Dhabi myself, so on that point I agree.

If I were Horner, I don't think I'd give him the order to help Mark until after Brazil myself - see what happens there first.

It would be foolish of Red Bull not to back up Mark from this point on. Alonso only needs a 3rd and a 5th, or a 2nd and a 6th to stay ahead of Vettel even if Seb went on to win both remaining races. On the other hand, if Red Bull takes 1-2 in the next race with Vettel winning while Alonso fails to finish, Alonso still would only need to win in Abu Dhabi, regardless of how Mark or Seb did there, in order to claim the WDC. If Red Bull wants the WDC, they will need to give Mark as many points as possible. The bottom line is, Mark can still win the WDC on his own merit, while Seb needs help from others. That being the case, the team should back up Mark.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Alonso wins - I hope he does it by more than the 7 points he was gifted by Massa. Otherwise his 3rd WDC will always be slightly dubious.

Saying that, if he beats Webber by 1 point, I'll be happy enough.

After all he talk about Webber not screwing up like the rest, I looked back at the reasons for Vettel's DNFs - actually the difference between them has been down to car failures. Webber has ruined as many of his own races as Vettel, he just hasn't had blow outs and spark plug failures like Vettel. Without those Vettel would be leading. Perhaps we should rethink the "he's been consistent" argument and replace it with a "he's been luckier" one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would be foolish of Red Bull not to back up Mark from this point on. Alonso only needs a 3rd and a 5th, or a 2nd and a 6th to stay ahead of Vettel even if Seb went on to win both remaining races. On the other hand, if Red Bull takes 1-2 in the next race with Vettel winning while Alonso fails to finish, Alonso still would only need to win in Abu Dhabi, regardless of how Mark or Seb did there, in order to claim the WDC. If Red Bull wants the WDC, they will need to give Mark as many points as possible. The bottom line is, Mark can still win the WDC on his own merit, while Seb needs help from others. That being the case, the team should back up Mark.

Not really - if Alonso is down the order or even fails to finish in Brazil and Vettel's leading from Webber, Red Bull would be far wiser to let Vettel win. Then they have 2 drivers ahead of Alonso and two possible WDC contenders.

I agree with Adnam - it really depends on how Brazil unfolds. There is certainly a possibility that team orders will have to play a role. But two things have to happen in order for team orders to be useful...

1 - Alonso must be well placed towards the end of the race (1st, 2nd, 3rd or possibly 4th)

2 - Vettel has to be ahead of Webber by 1 or perhaps 2 places

If either of these conditions doesn't arise, then Red Bull will leave well alone.

I'm not a Vettel fan, I just think that people saying already that he must run in support of Webber is slightly premature - things will become clear in the last few laps at Brazil - until then, no decision can be made and strategy remains - give both drivers the best oportunity to win the race.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Alonso wins - I hope he does it by more than the 7 points he was gifted by Massa. Otherwise his 3rd WDC will always be slightly dubious.

Stop your whinning! :P That race is and will always be a low moment, but as much as to make the whole championship 'dubious'? I don't think so. Every other contender have some 'dubious' moment: Vettel with his borrowed wing and Horner's own confessions. Hamilton with the JB will save fuel *wink wink*" stuff or the overtaking of the SC, Webber...well I can't think any special favors or gifts but I am sure that any Vettel fan could find more than one. Truth is, none of these are that strong or defining enough to make any of the contender's eventual WDC 'dubious'. They all had their own share of bad luck/bad decisions against them. So, in the end, it is pretty compensated between all of them. Even with 7 points awarded just for fun by M.Todt himself, you had to work hard against the RBR. Lewis was allowed his big hsare of good luck at the start of season, and then he had a lot of things playing against him. Ditto for Vettel (just look at this past race).

Hockenheim was a shameful moment for Ferrari, but I still do not think it was a WDC defining moment.

Saying that, if he beats Webber by 1 point, I'll be happy enough.

:lol: Poor Webbo. We do not have any specialized F1 TV program down here, so I hardly get to read whatever the dismal F1 websites decide to feed us about each driver, which is usually the same interview edited according each website's bias. So many times I miss the nunances in personalities among most drivers. I always found Webber a really nice and funny guy, so if he wins I will be happy (of course I'd rather see any Renault driver or Nando but still).

I can't see whatever is irritating everybody so much about good old Webbo lately. Please, plese...don't mention the 'whiney' stuff. Some other trait, if possible!

After all he talk about Webber not screwing up like the rest, I looked back at the reasons for Vettel's DNFs - actually the difference between them has been down to car failures. Webber has ruined as many of his own races as Vettel, he just hasn't had blow outs and spark plug failures like Vettel. Without those Vettel would be leading. Perhaps we should rethink the "he's been consistent" argument and replace it with a "he's been luckier" one.

This we agree. Somehow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now