maure

I Checked First, Alright?

205 posts in this topic

The truth is that "Hockenheim" happens all the time. The only difference is whether or not someone brings it up. As proof, consider that this year's Hockenheim (the one everyone is all nuts about now) also happened a couple of years back _in_the_very_same_curve_ when Kova was forced to let Hamilton by. Not a soul said anything then. FIA didn't investigate anything. There were no fines.

In other words, Hamilton's favoritism at McLaren is considered acceptable even more deeply than Schumacher's favoritism at Ferrari (in his time) ever was.

Why bother cogitating on "rules" or on what's "moral"? The fact is that the surreal is accepted day in day out no matter if it breaks the rules, if it is immoral, or if it is both. It is just a matter of _who_ screams murder not whether or not there is a dead body in plain view, its death brought about by natural, circumstantial, or criminal events.

Thus, the most interesting questions are as follows. _WHY_ the blatant hypocrisy? _WHY_ the denial and _WHY_ this profound need for self-deceit? The answer has nothing to do with F1 and everything to do with the psychology of humor...

Unless I am losing the plot, I don't recall McLaren getting on the radio and saying "OK Heikki... Lewis is faster than you... Can you confirm that you understood that message". Was it done under team orders? probably. How? Likelihood is it was discussed before the race in the team. Was there any evidence? nope. Regardless of what people think, if you don't have evidence of wrongdoing, then a strong hunch isn't enough, you cannot just ban a team or driver because you find their actions suspicious. Sorry, but the FIA cannot impose a fine because a guy who has a mountain of hatred for a certain driver says they should. This is the real world, and in the real world you need proof to try someone for something,

Does that Mean I agree with team orders being used by McLaren? Actually not. I just don't think it would do the image of the sport any good if they suddenly started throwing about bans and fines based on unsubstantiated whims.

Edited by Delta

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Really? How can you tell?

Case#1: "I hope he would be magnanimous to help the other [Webber]" (Newey)

Case#2: "Felipe, Fernando is faster than you" (Smedley)

Case#3: "Driver X, I COMMAND you to let Driver Y by"

You need a leap of faith to believe that case#1 is the opposite of case#2

Even clearer. A platoon is about to kill a prisoner:

Case#1: "I hope you soldiers will be magnanimous and end this prisoner's life"

Case#2: "Soldiers, this prisoner is slower than your bullets, confirm you understood the message"

Case#3: "FIRE!"

Again, I only see a clearcut order in the last example. RBR is issuing team orders everyday to Vettel, although people has decided not to recognize them as such. Horner also said that RBR is not suicidal and come Abu Dhabi, the drivers will know what to do. Aren't those team orders as well? Do Vettel has more freedom to decide after Horner and Newey hinted very strongly that he should let Webber by?

I only go by what I see on the track, and apart from the front wing incident, I haven't see RBR issue team orders, not obviously anyway. Ferrari are known to do it all the time, it's just the way I personally perceive it. What Christian Horner said is right. The drivers know exactly what needs to be done, and I don't think the team would need to tell them because it's obvious.

You are making it up.

Massa was told that Alonso was faster than him. Now _YOU_ want to make _YOURSELF_ believe that this means one thing and one thing only, namely, get out of the way. Yet that is _YOUR_ interpretation. It is also possible to interpret it as, "watch out Massa, Alonso is going by, don't throw him out of the track". Your fanatical hold on _YOUR_ view is what is lost on you. As for myself, I accept both interpretations and a million others. Don't care enough.

Yeah, because it makes so much sense to add the phrase "Can you confirm you understood that message". Felipe may not be natively English, but a 5 year old could understand the message "X is faster than you"... So what is your explanation for that one professor? Fernando wasn't actually faster than Felipe either, so it seems strange to tell him that Alonso is faster, when he isn't huh?

RBR has no record on "not issuing team orders" any more than any other team. You are lying to yourself. For example, now that the last race is coming up, everyone in RBR is trying to sell the rat as duck so that a manipulated result is accepted by the hypocrites...

And RBR attempts for this legerdemain is everything except "commendable". It is, simply, laughing at you loud and hard... and not a good natured laugh (like mine) but the laugh of someone that thinks you are stupid and will indeed buy rat for duck, fully knowing that it is rat yet still claiming that is duck as you gulp it down.

Red Bull haven't told me anything, I just don't happen to be some half insane conspiracy nut that thinks that every single thing that goes on in F1 is the result of fixing. I really can't see what a large corporation would gain from laughing at a single Formula 1 fan, but ho hum if that kind of nutty thinking keeps you warm at night, don't let me try and make you face reality :lol:... In fact, I have a roll of tin foil in my kitchen i'd be happy to give you, to protect your brain in case the aliens that the yanks have been hiding in Area 51 get out and try and erase your memory.

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Unless I am losing the plot, I don't recall McLaren getting on the radio and saying "OK Heikki... Lewis is faster than you... Can you confirm that you understood that message". Was it done under team orders? probably. How? Likelihood is it was discussed before the race in the team. Was there any evidence? nope. Regardless of what people think, if you don't have evidence of wrongdoing, then a strong hunch isn't enough, you cannot just ban a team or driver because you find their actions suspicious. Sorry, but the FIA cannot impose a fine because a guy who has a mountain of hatred for a certain driver says they should. This is the real world, and in the real world you need proof to try someone for something,

Does that Mean I agree with team orders being used by McLaren? Actually not. I just don't think it would do the image of the sport any good if they suddenly started throwing about bans and fines based on unsubstantiated whims.

So you claim there is a need for absolute proof because otherwise all you have are "unsubstantiated whims".

Ok.

Yeah, because it makes so much sense to add the phrase "Can you confirm you understood that message". Felipe may not be natively English, but a 5 year old could understand the message "X is faster than you"... So what is your explanation for that one professor? Fernando wasn't actually faster than Felipe either, so it seems strange to tell him that Alonso is faster, when he isn't huh?

So you claim there is not a need absolute proof because... you say so.

Super.

Red Bull haven't told me anything, I just don't happen to be some half insane conspiracy nut that thinks that every single thing that goes on in F1 is the result of fixing. I really can't see what a large corporation would gain from laughing at a single Formula 1 fan, but ho hum if that kind of nutty thinking keeps you warm at night, don't let me try and make you face reality :lol:... In fact, I have a roll of tin foil in my kitchen i'd be happy to give you, to protect your brain in case the aliens that the yanks have been hiding in Area 51 get out and try and erase your memory.

My friend, do you know the meaning of the word "hypocrite"?

Go fetch.

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FIA never banned team orders, they simply banned teams from giving orders *over the radio*.

That made me laugh. Thanks.

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So you claim there is a need for absolute proof because otherwise all you have are "unsubstantiated whims".

Ok.

No, I am claiming you need some form of evidence to issue a punishment. Something other than "I am a hamilton hating loser and because I hate him I want his team punished". Say, I think you murdered someone. I have no proof of that claim, but I have a gut feeling, so you should go to prison, right?

My friend, do you know the meaning of the word "hypocrite"?

Go fetch.

Nope, but I do know that if you looked up the word halfwit in the dictionary, the word "maure" wouldn't be far behind it.

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let me just summarize what i said in the abu Dabi thread about this:

RBR are idiots for letting webber have the long leash. It should have been 7 wins Vettel, 5 for alonso 1 for webber. Quali showed that webber is a good second driver and when it counts he is an also ran. Ferrari are the only ones who have realized that Button Massa and Webber have no place running with Alonso Vettel and Hamilton and that's why Alonso will be WDC. Simple as that. Ferrari get it done with the 3rd best car for most of the season because they don't shy away from wining. Not using team orders is a sign what your team does not deserve to be running at the front.

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I'd take a team like RBR that are committed to fair racing, over one like Ferrari that lie to everyone and try to pretend there is equality in their team when there patently is not.

Edited by Delta

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Well hello there Delta, I shall add you to the TF1 Big Balls list ;) ! *adds to forum fights list with maure*

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Imho Ferrari had the second best car this season but that aside, I am not too keen on team orders and maybe RBR's recent approach is fairer than Ferrari's. I've always admired McLaren for being totally fair to all their number 2 drivers: Button, Kovalainen, Alonso. :P

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Imho Ferrari had the second best car this season but that aside, I am not too keen on team orders and maybe RBR's recent approach is fairer than Ferrari's. I've always admired McLaren for being totally fair to all their number 2 drivers: Button, Kovalainen, Alonso. :P

From being "THE team when it comes to develop cars throughout a season" to "they lost because they had the 3rd best car". What? After they "threw everything and the ktchen sink" into developing their cars which were well above Ferrari during most of early to mid season? Even though they laughed at Alonso's 6/10s and having Lewis bring his n-points of downforce?

Tsk...tsk... :P

(The part about fairness MUST be a joke, of course ;))

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Yeah Alguersuari is a basque last name and his family is originally from the basque country, but I think he was

raise in Cataluna so he probably considers himself Catalonian.

Alonso is from Asturias, the north of spain so not as nationalistic as basque or catalonian people but not all the

way spanish spanish as the people from madrid.

That is not what catalonians says...they even don´t speak spanish -bah, only a sa second language.

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For Vettel to let Webber through, he needs Mark directly behind him. Mark has work to do.

It'll all add up to a facinating race though.

As I've said many times before, I'm ruiting for Vettel or Alonso. Whatever happens though, and whoever wins, they'll be a deserving winner.

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Well hello there Delta, I shall add you to the TF1 Big Balls list ;) ! *adds to forum fights list with maure*

:lol:

I have just started playing the new COD game myself ;)

Imho Ferrari had the second best car this season but that aside, I am not too keen on team orders and maybe RBR's recent approach is fairer than Ferrari's. I've always admired McLaren for being totally fair to all their number 2 drivers: Button, Kovalainen, Alonso. :P

In the second half of the season... absolutely

In the first half of the season... in my opinion not.

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No, I am claiming you need some form of evidence to issue a punishment. Something other than "I am a hamilton hating loser and because I hate him I want his team punished". Say, I think you murdered someone. I have no proof of that claim, but I have a gut feeling, so you should go to prison, right?

... and you decide what is "some form of evidence" and whether or not there is any "need" for it.

If you want to, it is evidence. If you don't want to, it isn't. If you want to, it is needed. If you want to, it isn't. Amusing fantasy world you live in.

Amusing too that you bring up Hamilton. Your hatred is old, indeed, lewisteric. Your previous post showed as much, old and personal hatred. You must have made quite fool of yourself once, possibly years ago (insane, ain't it) and have now come back with nothing more than an ego-driven agenda...

But since you are here, amuse us, who is cowardly hiding behind the "delta" handle...

Nope, but I do know that if you looked up the word halfwit in the dictionary, the word "maure" wouldn't be far behind it.

Well, since you admit not to know the meaning of the word hypocrite, do speculate on how much your insights matter into what a dictionary might or might not say about anything...

Run another lap.

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I'd take a team like RBR that are committed to fair racing, over one like Ferrari that lie to everyone and try to pretend there is equality in their team when there patently is not.

Ferrari have never said they treat their drivers the same. They only started that once team orders were "banned" and then with a wink and a grin. for anybody to think that they do or did is just dull in the head.

the best move for vettel if webber is 2nd and alonso in a position in a place where webber needs a win is to park the car right before the finish line and let Mark take the victory. That would be the biggest FU to webber he could give, that or just ignore the situation and **** webber over.

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Imho Ferrari had the second best car this season but that aside, I am not too keen on team orders and maybe RBR's recent approach is fairer than Ferrari's. I've always admired McLaren for being totally fair to all their number 2 drivers: Button, Kovalainen, Alonso. :P

Now you made "delta" cry... oh, hold on, since you are a lewisteric too, you can say whatever you want.

So, go on, yes, yes, McLaren totally fair, or not. Doesn't matter what you say, anyway. What matters for hypocrites is who says something. What is actually being said is completely irrelevant...

From being "THE team when it comes to develop cars throughout a season" to "they lost because they had the 3rd best car". What? After they "threw everything and the ktchen sink" into developing their cars which were well above Ferrari during most of early to mid season? Even though they laughed at Alonso's 6/10s and having Lewis bring his n-points of downforce?

Tsk...tsk... :P

(The part about fairness MUST be a joke, of course ;))

There is something to be said for the problem Ferrari had with the engines. Sure, they were allowed to fix them (there is FIA for you) but they still paid the penalty in terms of the number of engines available to them on the whole.

It's quite a handicap. On account of this, gasp!, beelzebub's accomplishments are even more impressing.

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Who's running laps?

Come to think of it, who's the most racist, biggoted hypocrite on TF1?

:whistling:

...and here's a dancing carrot.

:carrot:

Edited by snorrisstrags

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the best move for vettel if webber is 2nd and alonso in a position in a place where webber needs a win is to park the car right before the finish line and let Mark take the victory.

And, ironically, there would be those that would say this is ok despite the fact they screamed hell when Ferrari did it... ahhh, hypocrites.

That would be the biggest FU to webber he could give, ...

Twisted but useless.

Far less worthy WDC's are on the grid right now and they don't give a sht how they got their championships.

... that or just ignore the situation and **** webber over.

Vettel has been made to believe by RBR that he can afford this luxury... and RBR is now backing down.

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Come to think of it, who's the most racist, biggoted hypocrite on TF1?

You are simply acknowledging that there are several racist, biggoted hypocrites on TF1, one of which is more so than the others...

Your naivety is amusing, dictionary man.

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Imho Ferrari had the second best car this season but that aside, I am not too keen on team orders and maybe RBR's recent approach is fairer than Ferrari's. I've always admired McLaren for being totally fair to all their number 2 drivers: Button, Kovalainen, Alonso. :P

Yeah, Kovalainen was the second best trained number 2 in f1 history after Barrichelo (Piquet jr was close in this race until he decided to sing), as soon as he saw Hami on his mirrors he would gently slow down and made room for him.

And in my modest opinion the second best car was the maclaren, if Hami didn't screw it twice in a row with 2 dnfs maclaren would be about to get the drivers title.

Also look at Massa, except germany he is been place 4th to 8th average all season long. So Alonso is not winning in the best car, and the difference with the Red Bulls

to all the others it's pretty clear.

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You are simply acknowledging that there are several racist, biggoted hypocrites on TF1, one of which is more so than the others...

Your naivety is amusing, dictionary man.

:eusa_think:

after careful consideration...

there's certainly a front runner when it comes to denigrating entire populations of other countries.

there's definately one guy I know of who regularly uses offensive and racist terms to address other members and drivers because of their ethnicity / nationality.

there's always one poster who brings race or nationality into any discussion far faster than anyone else here and uses it as an ugly and devisive weapon in our multinational love-in that is TF1.

there's one member who sees race or nationality as a reason for people to be treated and addressed with vastly different degrees of respect and politeness.

yep - he's definately leading the field in the "most biggotted racist" award for 2010.

since that same person crows daily that everyone else is guilty of the above crimes, even when they make not one comment about a driver's or fellow poster's nationality or ethnicity, that also puts him in with a very good shout at the "biggest hyprocrite" award.

yes it's a clean sweep once again for...

*passes card to Maure for the final announcement*

Maure - perhaps you can enlighten my naive self. Who won? :D

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:eusa_think:

after careful consideration...

there's certainly a front runner when it comes to denigrating entire populations of other countries.

there's definately one guy I know of who regularly uses offensive and racist terms to address other members and drivers because of their ethnicity / nationality.

there's always one poster who brings race or nationality into any discussion far faster than anyone else here and uses it as an ugly and devisive weapon in our multinational love-in that is TF1.

there's one member who sees race or nationality as a reason for people to be treated and addressed with vastly different degrees of respect and politeness.

yep - he's definately leading the field in the "most biggotted racist" award for 2010.

since that same person crows daily that everyone else is guilty of the above crimes, even when they make not one comment about a driver's or fellow poster's nationality or ethnicity, that also puts him in with a very good shout at the "biggest hyprocrite" award.

yes it's a clean sweep once again for...

*passes card to Maure for the final announcement*

Maure - perhaps you can enlighten my naive self. Who won? :D

It's as old as time itself, dictionary man.

So you want to hire your idiot brother for a job he will never, ever, ever deserve. The solution for someone like you is to craft the job description to fit your brother and your brother only. Why not just hire him? Why the need for the hypocrisy? In general, this is just an amusing characteristic of the lot of you.

What's even more amusing (in this case) is that you don't realize what you are doing. Thus, you mix reality and fiction, randomly giving attribute this way and that way, trying to convince yourself that, indeed, your idiot bother will get the job no matter what you say or do... yet you simply end up explaining to us all what an idiot your brother is.

I'll be a friend and tell you that your problem is that you think you are "better" than you actually are and that such a thing actually matters. You aren't and it doesn't. One day, you might grow up and realize the meaning of the following: "You and I are exactly alike except on everything that makes us different".

EDIT: edit?

Edited by maure

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some tosh or other

So you're saying that my description of a racist bigotted hyprocrite fits ????

Don't keep us in suspense oh great even-handed one.

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So you're saying that my description of a racist bigotted hyprocrite fits ????

Are you looking at a mirror?

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