JHS 1 Report post Posted January 4, 2011 Die, Fernandes. He could do that or just change the name of his team. Saves all the mess and blood and gore I suppose. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HandyNZL 1 Report post Posted January 5, 2011 He is not keen to change as he would then forfeit all his TV money from last year, and that then gets redistributed to the other teams...one of which being the other Lotus. I think they should stay as Team Lotus just to phuck of Proton. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Autumnpuma 0 Report post Posted January 5, 2011 Well, there a stipulation (supposedly) that a name change can happen and the team still gets to keep it's money but all the teams need to sign off on it. Surprisingly, against all rules of avarice, it *has* happened a time or two. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rainmaster 7 Report post Posted January 19, 2011 This row is going to court next week so hopefully there will be a resolution of some sort before the races begin. http://en.espnf1.com...tory/38384.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JHS 1 Report post Posted January 19, 2011 Lotus ReNault seem very confident. I hope that Fernandes will change his team's name to Air Asia GP or something. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HandyNZL 1 Report post Posted January 21, 2011 Lotus-Renault is Renault, end of - Fernandes Thursday 20th January 2011, 22:33 Tony Fernandes has made his true feelings on the matter of the Lotus naming saga quite clear, after posting several messages on Twitter explaining the situation. "Let's get a few things straight," Fernandes wrote on his Twitter page. "You set up a separate company from car company to protect car company from racing's ups and downs. "[Lotus team] company goes into liquidation. Bought by David Hunt. Sixteen years no racing. Team bought from David Hunt by Nasa, Din and Tony." He continued: "We are no different from Ron Dennis at McLaren. End of story. Ron Dennis didn't start McLaren, Bruce McLaren did. "Proton and Dany Bahar didn't start Group Lotus. Colin Chapman did. "What's the difference? Proton own Group Lotus, and Din, me and Nasa own Team Lotus." He then continued to explain that Lotus were simply a sponsor - which Eric Boullier confirmed earlier this week - which means the team remain Renault, unlike his outfit which truly is Team Lotus. "Lotus Renault is a Renault, end of story. McLaren is McLaren, not Vodafone and Mercedes is Mercedes not Petronas Mercedes or a Petronas car." It looks like we can look forward to further tweets on the matter, with the Malaysian businessman promising to shed more light on the subject. "More to come on my feeling's and the truth on this Lotus saga. The good always win." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HandyNZL 1 Report post Posted January 21, 2011 "We are no different from Ron Dennis at McLaren. End of story. Ron Dennis didn't start McLaren, Bruce McLaren did. "Proton and Dany Bahar didn't start Group Lotus. Colin Chapman did. "What's the difference? Proton own Group Lotus, and Din, me and Nasa own Team Lotus." 110% accurate. I'm backing Fernandes. Proton can go fook em selves. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dribbler 6 Report post Posted January 21, 2011 "We are no different from Ron Dennis at McLaren. End of story. Ron Dennis didn't start McLaren, Bruce McLaren did. 110% accurate. I'm backing Fernandes. Proton can go fook em selves. Hmmm... Ron Dennis took over a McLaren that was still going. Fernandes started a team and called it Lotus. That's very different. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HandyNZL 1 Report post Posted January 21, 2011 Well, he got permission (called a license these days) to use Louts (Group) name....then he bought Team Lotus, a wholly separate organisation than Group Lotus, and plans to use that name....that (buying the name) is the bit that makes him no different to Ron Dennis buying out Teddy Myer for McLaren, and thus, in my view, should legitimately be allowed to use the name Team Lotus. Group Lotus, however, are also quite right to use the name Lotus...I just think they are dumb to do what they have done because its just makes a mockery of everything, hence my backing of Fernandes. Whether Team Lotus was racing at the time of purchase, I feel, is moot. It's still a name, an entity, a something....something that had value. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JHS 1 Report post Posted January 21, 2011 "Proton and Dany Bahar didn't start Group Lotus." Yeah, and neither did you. I wish he'd drop the "holier than thou" attitude, I'm beginning to lose respect for the dude. He's fighting a losing battle. The Chapmans are on the Lotus-Renault side, and if we're going on what they think, they surely Lotus-Renault is the more genuine one. Air Asia is a respectable brand on it's own. It doesn't need dressing up as "Lotus". He already has a GP2 team called "Air Asia", so really, I think he should just drop it now. Accept that Group Lotus don't want to be with him and try something else. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HandyNZL 1 Report post Posted January 21, 2011 But he has paid someone else (who has nothing to do with the Chapmans, other than he bought what was left of the race team, and hence the Team Lotus name) so therefore Fernandes is only protecting his investment in a legitimate marque and team name. You would too if you were in his position. It doesn't matter what else he owns or what other names he has given other teams. He has bought the name Team Lotus and wishes to use it for his F1 team, and now someone else is saying you can't use that name because it's the same as their name....even though they (Proton) were second to come to the table (in terms of the F1 table that is). Not like there are two Red Bull teams or anything..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Quiet One 15 Report post Posted January 21, 2011 its fun to wath these guys talking so seriously about the whole Lotus name, because it means Sh#t except that its better to attract sponsors than Geniiiiiiiiiiiiii or Air Malaria but not by much probably as i doubt sponsors are THAT fond of just a name. But they invested money on having those 5 letters so i guess its ok. But to watch ppl at forums and journalists seriously talking about this goes beyond my comprehension. WHy should we care? (That's not sarcasm, that's me feeling I'm missing something here) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JHS 1 Report post Posted January 21, 2011 But he has paid someone else (who has nothing to do with the Chapmans, other than he bought what was left of the race team, and hence the Team Lotus name) so therefore Fernandes is only protecting his investment in a legitimate marque and team name. You would too if you were in his position. It doesn't matter what else he owns or what other names he has given other teams. He has bought the name Team Lotus and wishes to use it for his F1 team, and now someone else is saying you can't use that name because it's the same as their name....even though they (Proton) were second to come to the table (in terms of the F1 table that is). Not like there are two Red Bull teams or anything..... Yes, but the thing is, his team ISN'T the real Lotus. It's probably the same for the Lotus-Renault situation, but I'd say they are more Lotus than Fernandes' team will ever be. People hark on about how the way Colin Chapman would have approved of what Fernandes is doing, etc, etc, but that's a load of rubbish. He's dead, we don't know what he'd think for sure, but I find it telling that the current Chapmans have switched allegiances. I could create a team tomorrow and call it "Tyrrell" or "Brabham", but my team wouldn't be at all associated with the originals. The same applies for Fernandes. His team was originally called 1Malaysia, not Lotus. Who cares if he bought a name or whether Proton owns Lotus? The fact is, the one that is producing road cars is the one that is with Renault. That's good enough for me. The Red Bull situation is entirely different. Dietrich Mateschitz owns both of them. They run under different names and different colours. However, here, the two teams are run by two different people, yet they both use the same name and at one point were both going to run in the same colours. How does that work? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pabloh20 1 Report post Posted January 21, 2011 Yes, but the thing is, his team ISN'T the real Lotus. It's probably the same for the Lotus-Renault situation, but I'd say they are more Lotus than Fernandes' team will ever be. People hark on about how the way Colin Chapman would have approved of what Fernandes is doing, etc, etc, but that's a load of rubbish. He's dead, we don't know what he'd think for sure, but I find it telling that the current Chapmans have switched allegiances.I could create a team tomorrow and call it "Tyrrell" or "Brabham", but my team wouldn't be at all associated with the originals. The same applies for Fernandes. His team was originally called 1Malaysia, not Lotus. Who cares if he bought a name or whether Proton owns Lotus? The fact is, the one that is producing road cars is the one that is with Renault. That's good enough for me. The Red Bull situation is entirely different. Dietrich Mateschitz owns both of them. They run under different names and different colours. However, here, the two teams are run by two different people, yet they both use the same name and at one point were both going to run in the same colours. How does that work? There's no 'telling' involved. Money talks and I am sure palms have been greased. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Insider 0 Report post Posted January 22, 2011 Seems the Chapman's have come out in support of Proton in this little saga. Say that the team formerly known as Renault are the real Lotus...... This is just getting more surreal by the week... Chapmans supporting Proton or not it makes little difference. Tony Fernandes had a deal with Proton/Group Lotus to operate in F1 under the name 'Team Lotus' which they now say he has breached, [though no details are forthcoming on how or why] and hey ho, they rock up a year later and invest in another team which they say will be called 'Lotus' but which will invariably be called, Renault. Meanwhile Tony is tweeting his neck off giving us the low down on the whole deal and you know what, I believe he has a huge point and will probably win through - at least, I hope he will. As I have said before, for all real racing enthusiasts, Team Lotus died with Colin Chapman and may they both rest in peace. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HandyNZL 1 Report post Posted January 22, 2011 Yes, but the thing is, his team ISN'T the real Lotus. It's probably the same for the Lotus-Renault situation, but I'd say they are more Lotus than Fernandes' team will ever be. People hark on about how the way Colin Chapman would have approved of what Fernandes is doing, etc, etc, but that's a load of rubbish. He's dead, we don't know what he'd think for sure, but I find it telling that the current Chapmans have switched allegiances. I could create a team tomorrow and call it "Tyrrell" or "Brabham", but my team wouldn't be at all associated with the originals. The same applies for Fernandes. His team was originally called 1Malaysia, not Lotus. Who cares if he bought a name or whether Proton owns Lotus? The fact is, the one that is producing road cars is the one that is with Renault. That's good enough for me. The Red Bull situation is entirely different. Dietrich Mateschitz owns both of them. They run under different names and different colours. However, here, the two teams are run by two different people, yet they both use the same name and at one point were both going to run in the same colours. How does that work? Bit in bold.....why? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JHS 1 Report post Posted January 22, 2011 Because they are the ones making the road cars. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HandyNZL 1 Report post Posted January 22, 2011 But the road cars and the race cars were ALWAYS separate, as set up that way on day 1 by Colin Chapman. I think I can see your way of thinking though, being that you're a child of the car manufacturer era in F1. Nothing to be ashamed of, but F1 has not always been thus...infact it was usually anything but.... So, I'll see your point, but raise you a another.... Lotus (as in Colin Chapman) was first a race team....then a cottage road car manufacturer. Fernandes was a race team first (like Chapman), and as far as anyone knows, he's not manufacturing cars....Proton is a car manufacturer (using other marques out of date moulds I may add), that just so happens to also own the Lotus road car marque, or which have never raced in F1. To me, Fernandes is closer to Chapman than Proton. And somewhere there I lost my point...mainly coz its half after midnight....but I think you're intelligent enough to get the gist. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HandyNZL 1 Report post Posted January 22, 2011 Guess I am saying, why do you have to be a car manufacturer to deserve a name? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JHS 1 Report post Posted January 22, 2011 Well, I guess it's down to a matter of opinion. 1Malaysia have never produced Lotus road cars, whilst the Lotus with Renault have. They have the correct badge, they have the blessing from ex-Lotus drivers like Mansell, and also now the Chapmans themselves. Really, that all adds up for me to show that Lotus Renault is more legit. For me there would be no shame if Fernandes changed the name, I'd have no problem with that. I think he's just become disillusioned into thinking he's Colin Chapman. They don't need the bells and whistles that go with being called Lotus. They'd do fine without. That's just my view really. Sure, Group Lotus is owned by Proton, but they still produce Lotus road cars. Basically what you seem to be saying is that it'd be fine if somebody created a team called "Team Ferrari", because the road car division no longer means anything. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HandyNZL 1 Report post Posted January 22, 2011 Well, no, because Ferrari are setup like Chapman used to be...Scuderia Ferrari (Team Ferrari) and Ferrari (making similar looking cars since forever)....I think you may even find Chapman copied Enzo (not sure, but Enzo did it first so stands to reason). Thing is, Fernandes brought the name back to F1 first, whether that was right or wrong is moot. He has the precedent in this instance (of the modern F1). Group Lotus were second, and generally if you're second, you're the one the courts tell to go find themselves a new name. We shall see how more learned people resolve this matter soon enough, I am sure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JHS 1 Report post Posted January 22, 2011 Yes, I think we can both agree that it is a totally stupid situation. How this has happened in a sport of supposedly a great number of intelligent people, I don't know. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HandyNZL 1 Report post Posted January 22, 2011 ...well, quite the majority have been sniffing avgas for years, so that must dull the brain... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
