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Ferrari (Read Luca) Doesn'T Want New Engines

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Ferrari looking for allies to delay 2013 engine

Saturday 01st January 2011, 15:04

luca-di-montezemolo-stefano-domenicali.jpg Ferrari president Luca Di Montezemolo is keen on delaying the introduction of Formula One's new engine formula, which is set to power the sport from 2013 onwards.

When the FIA recently announced that four-cylinder engines would be introduced in 2013, Montezemolo expressed some displeasure, before adding he 'wouldn't stand in the way' of change.

Now though, it seems the Italian is looking for allies in an attempt to delay or completely scrap the new regulations.

"We won't be building any four-cylinder engines for our street cars," he told Auto Motor und Sport.

"A Four-cylinder engine, it sounds, for the top tier of motorsport, a bit puny.

"Why could we not agree on a V6 Turbo? We should not confuse affordable with cheap."

The 63-year-old is hoping other engine manufacturers, particularly Mercedes, will support him in delaying the changes.

"If there is the slightest possibility to delay the four-cylinder [regulations], I'll try, I perceive a chance, but we need unity."

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Well use a FIAT engine you sook.

What you're really saying is that your nose is so high in the air you don't even know that there is ground beneath your feet.

Go start your own Formula Ferrari World Championship already...there you will find you can have your very own three car team, run V12's, put Marlboro signage on your cars, tell your drivers what position they must finish the race in, and get paid more than double any other team just because you're painted red and you need hush money.

Or in other words, you know that your engine is going to suck balls.

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I am with Ferrari on this one, Formula 1 is meant to be the pinnacle of motorsport, and it will not be with 4 cylinder engines.

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I am with Ferrari on this one, Formula 1 is meant to be the pinnacle of motorsport, and it will not be with 4 cylinder engines.

People said it wouldn't be the pinnacle after the V12s died off.

People said it wouldn't be the pinnacle after the V10s died off.

Well, hate to break it to you, but F1 is still by far the most popular form of racing today, so obviously something's working...

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People said it wouldn't be the pinnacle after the V12s died off.

People said it wouldn't be the pinnacle after the V10s died off.

Well, hate to break it to you, but F1 is still by far the most popular form of racing today, so obviously something's working...

True. Expectations are rock-bottom. Thus we have the last decade of "competition".

But something will give eventually. Just wait until not only most tracks are in Asia but most drivers come from there too. I am already laughing at that one...

Anyway, Luca is right, even if his is just posturing for political reasons.

Besides, and after all, are ecologist around the world cheering on F1 for its "green" policies?

Amusing.

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Pinnacle of motorsport is and always was a meaningless marketing term attached to it. Greatest Spectacle in Racing, Great American Race, etc, etc. Everyone wants it to mean something, but to FOM, FIA, and me, it's just another phrase. There is no definition of what the pinnacle constitutes and how one becomes it and what size engines to use. I have concerns about the 4-cylinder engines, but it has nothing to do with the snobbery of "our sport is so much grander than all the others and must therefore have bigger engines and bigger budgets and this and that." It, to me, has more to do with the direction the FIA want to go in. If they want to lower costs, they can afford to p**s off a manufacture or two. If they want to keep costs the same, they can't. And then there's "the show." I care about being entertained. Will 4-cylinder engines facilitate that? No idea and no way to know. But all this pinnacle nonsense...it will always be the pinnacle so long as that's the FOM's marketing term of choice, and that definition will change every time the sport changes.

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Pinnacle of motorsport is and always was a meaningless marketing term attached to it. Greatest Spectacle in Racing, Great American Race, etc, etc. Everyone wants it to mean something, but to FOM, FIA, and me, it's just another phrase. There is no definition of what the pinnacle constitutes and how one becomes it and what size engines to use. I have concerns about the 4-cylinder engines, but it has nothing to do with the snobbery of "our sport is so much grander than all the others and must therefore have bigger engines and bigger budgets and this and that." It, to me, has more to do with the direction the FIA want to go in. If they want to lower costs, they can afford to p**s off a manufacture or two. If they want to keep costs the same, they can't. And then there's "the show." I care about being entertained. Will 4-cylinder engines facilitate that? No idea and no way to know. But all this pinnacle nonsense...it will always be the pinnacle so long as that's the FOM's marketing term of choice, and that definition will change every time the sport changes.

A 50cc engine strapped to a car can still be raced and provide entertainment. So the size matters not. At least that's what Steph was telling me the other night... :P (about Andre.....)

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I am with Ferrari on this one, Formula 1 is meant to be the pinnacle of motorsport, and it will not be with 4 cylinder engines.

Please expand......and give some reasons....etc etcetera...

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Pinnacle of motorsport is and always was a meaningless marketing term attached to it. Greatest Spectacle in Racing, Great American Race, etc, etc. Everyone wants it to mean something, but to FOM, FIA, and me, it's just another phrase. There is no definition of what the pinnacle constitutes and how one becomes it and what size engines to use. I have concerns about the 4-cylinder engines, but it has nothing to do with the snobbery of "our sport is so much grander than all the others and must therefore have bigger engines and bigger budgets and this and that." It, to me, has more to do with the direction the FIA want to go in. If they want to lower costs, they can afford to p**s off a manufacture or two. If they want to keep costs the same, they can't. And then there's "the show." I care about being entertained. Will 4-cylinder engines facilitate that? No idea and no way to know. But all this pinnacle nonsense...it will always be the pinnacle so long as that's the FOM's marketing term of choice, and that definition will change every time the sport changes.

Yep.

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I think F1 truly was the pinnacle of motorsport during the 80's and 90's. During the 00's F1 was at his peak and someone decided they had to make changes. They did, they liked it and they made more changes... I don't care about 1, 2, 3... n cyllinders, I just want to see freedom of racing with different engines, tyres and compounds, gearboxes, suspensions, ECU's... With a stablished set of rules about safety and some restrictions on aerodynamics.

Buuut... As long as the lap times are the fastest against other series and competitions by a comfortable margin, you can say it is the pinnacle of motorsport. Now, what a comfortable margin means is another question.

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True. Expectations are rock-bottom. Thus we have the last decade of "competition".

But something will give eventually. Just wait until not only most tracks are in Asia but most drivers come from there too. I am already laughing at that one...

Anyway, Luca is right, even if his is just posturing for political reasons.

Besides, and after all, are ecologist around the world cheering on F1 for its "green" policies?

Amusing.

Well it is a WORLD Championship....the world doesn't just revolve around Europe as much as I'd like it to be the case. :P

Buuut... As long as the lap times are the fastest against other series and competitions by a comfortable margin, you can say it is the pinnacle of motorsport.

I completely agree. As long as the cars still go like the clappers, make a loud noise and produce good racing, then I couldn't really care less about what engine they are using.

Edited by JHS

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I agrre with Luca and FIA! The may problem is fixed architecture regulation for engines! Why can´t Ferrari run a v6 turbo against Cosworth 4L turbo?

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I agrre with Luca and FIA! The may problem is fixed architecture regulation for engines! Why can´t Ferrari run a v6 turbo against Cosworth 4L turbo?

Because the days of diversity are over. There's no more trying new things or doing what's relevant in F1; it's all marketing, and winning is the only way to market. Therefore, they will all run the same engine naturally, even if given the freedom. See INDYCAR; in 2012, they will allow any engine from 0-2.4L with 0-6 cylinders. Every manufacture to commit (Honda, Cosworth/Lotus, and Chevrolet) is using a turbocharged 2.4L V6 because that will be most competitive. The same would happen in F1. There's a lot of data and a lot of money for research, and a lot more to gain with the F1 fans from building a winning engine over building a relevant one.

Edited by Port-A-Loo

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I completely agree. As long as the cars still go like the clappers, make a loud noise and produce good racing, then I couldn't really care less about what engine they are using.

OTOH I hope F1 cars never become the pinnacle of spec racing cars. You can still have the fastest cars, fastest lap times, etc making F1 a spec series but I guess it doesn't make sense for the manufacturers, I think F1 is becoming a better benchmark for drivers than it is for them, machinery, R+D+i, etc. And if they need to make F1 cars more similar to road cars they have some better championships for it.

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People said it wouldn't be the pinnacle after the V12s died off.

People said it wouldn't be the pinnacle after the V10s died off.

Well, hate to break it to you, but F1 is still by far the most popular form of racing today, so obviously something's working...

Please expand......and give some reasons....etc etcetera...

Because those engines where still Formula 1 in nature... The V10s where insanely powerful (in most cases, more so than the V12s) and before the RPM reduction, the V8s where also still pretty beefy, but the reduction to 4 cylinder engines will being the power down quite a bit, I am not trying to say that people should stop watching F1, I just think it's better for the sport to keep some of the technological prowess that sets it above all other motorsport... Every time you look at formula 1 regulation changes these days, the operative word is usually Ban, the technological innovation in F1 is just being killed off to try and artificially create more overtaking to cater to the morons that watch, and don't appreciate the skill involved.

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the technological innovation in F1 is just being killed off to try and artificially create more overtaking to cater to the morons that watch, and don't appreciate the skill involved.

Gee, thanks. We morons prop up the viewing figures so you actually get decent coverage. You lose the morons and your left with a very small group of fans, much like this forum. No TV coverage and no sponsor money, which means no innovation and no sport. There's no need to p**s on people who appreciate different aspects of it than you do. We all like the sport, for whatever reason, and for many of us, it's not this big ego prop-up thing that you do. Hate to say it but it's a sport, not an intellectual exercise. Inventing important concepts within that sport is just trying to justify the time spent watching it, or make yourself seem special for watching it, or whatever. Just let go and enjoy it like the morons do.

And, for the record, the bans on things put us morons off, too, because they don't help overtaking and we aren't that stupid to think a button-push constitutes something exciting. People want more goals in football, but they wouldn't be more apt to watch if this was accomplished by eliminating the goalkeeper. People who want to be entertained aren't as idiotic as you want them to be, and it's the FIA's failure to understand what they want to see that creates these rules. Overtaking may be our focus, but it isn't the only part of the sport we look at. It's a multi-dimensional game. You'll find that technical advances and such actually lead to more excitement (pushing the limits, less reliability, more speed, etc) and overtaking (diversity leads to cars that have different strengths and weaknesses at different tracks, in different conditions, at different sectors, etc). So I think nearly all of us want to see the same regulations, both us morons and you geniuses, but the former group is comfortable with how they're spending their free-time and not insecure about liking a sport.

But of course seeing two drivers displaying the utmost skill in battling wheel-to-wheel for wins would only ever appeal to a primary school dropout who cleans urinals for a living and watches NASCAR in his mother's basement while eating Burger King in his sweat-and-Mountain-Dew-stained wifebeater.

:rolleyes:

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People said it wouldn't be the pinnacle after the V12s died off.

People said it wouldn't be the pinnacle after the V10s died off.

Well, hate to break it to you, but F1 is still by far the most popular form of racing today, so obviously something's working...

Then I can't wait til they kill off 4 cylinders engines and introduce lawn mower engines.....

What's next? Solar Power? AAA batteries? Cutting a man hole in the chassis and have the drivers race Flintstones style?

Seriously, there has to be a limit to all these "green" rule changes. There are enough people looking after the environment. F1 is the pinnacle and therefore has a right to indulge a bit. How about reinstating V12 turbos?

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And if they need to make F1 cars more similar to road cars they have some better championships for it.

Yes, it's called touring cars.....

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How about reinstating V12 turbos?

Wouldn't it be heavier and bulkier than a V6 for 1.6 L with no real gain in performance?

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Wouldn't it be heavier and bulkier than a V6 for 1.6 L with no real gain in performance?

I don't have any info on that....perhaps someone should give it ago. Pull out an F1 car from the turbo era and drag it with the RB6 on the Nurburgring.

Some Ferrari slaggers immediately went to town on Luca. But this really isn't a Ferrari issue - it's an F1 issue. A 4 cylinder F1 car just doesn't sound right. Road cars have speed limiters put on them anyway - so you wouldn't be able to put a Camry shell on a 4-cyl F1 chassis and ask some dude with a GTR if he wants a drag race :)

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But of course seeing two drivers displaying the utmost skill in battling wheel-to-wheel for wins would only ever appeal to a primary school dropout who cleans urinals for a living and watches NASCAR in his mother's basement while eating Burger King in his sweat-and-Mountain-Dew-stained wifebeater.

Battling wheel-to-wheel for wins?

Do you watch F1?

Forget it. I just recalled you claimed the 2008 season was "thrilling" even though the title contenders were hardly ever in the same camera shot during the entire season (one won when the other crashed or similar)... true wheel-to-wheel battling (for you) wasn't it?

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Because those engines where still Formula 1 in nature... The V10s where insanely powerful (in most cases, more so than the V12s) and before the RPM reduction, the V8s where also still pretty beefy, but the reduction to 4 cylinder engines will being the power down quite a bit, I am not trying to say that people should stop watching F1, I just think it's better for the sport to keep some of the technological prowess that sets it above all other motorsport... Every time you look at formula 1 regulation changes these days, the operative word is usually Ban, the technological innovation in F1 is just being killed off to try and artificially create more overtaking to cater to the morons that watch, and don't appreciate the skill involved.

Look, it's not like the cars are going to be going slowly with a 4 cylinder engine. They'll have the same horsepower, if not bit more. They'll still be incredibly quick, still make a loud noise, so what is the problem?

I believe the track record for Melbourne was broken in 2010 by a certain S. Vettel. Clearly even without V12s or V10s, the cars are still immensely quick over a lap compared to other levels of motorsport.

Then I can't wait til they kill off 4 cylinders engines and introduce lawn mower engines.....

What's next? Solar Power? AAA batteries? Cutting a man hole in the chassis and have the drivers race Flintstones style?

Seriously, there has to be a limit to all these "green" rule changes. There are enough people looking after the environment. F1 is the pinnacle and therefore has a right to indulge a bit. How about reinstating V12 turbos?

Because that'll have the manufacturers flocking back in droves, won't it? Tell me. How many road cars did BMW, Honda and Toyota produce that had a V12 turbo engine up to the moment they withdrew from the sport? Not many at all...

Not to mention the cost. You reall think that's a good idea with how bad the economy is currently? That'd really finish the likes of Force India, Williams, etc, etc off. But I guess in your view, F1 should just have manufacturers because it's "the pinnacle of motorsport."

Yes, it's called touring cars.....

And look at how many manufacturers are showing interest in rejoining touring cars and not Formula One right now.

Even VW has elected to enter NASCAR over F1. Honda and Chevrolet will be supplying Indycar engines together. Many manufacturers are interested in entering the likes of V8 Supercars and DTM, including a certain BMW.

F1 shouldn't discount other levels of motorsport.

Edited by JHS

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Battling wheel-to-wheel for wins?

Do you watch F1?

Forget it. I just recalled you claimed the 2008 season was "thrilling" even though the title contenders were hardly ever in the same camera shot during the entire season (one won when the other crashed or similar)... true wheel-to-wheel battling (for you) wasn't it?

Wheel to wheel racing doesn't mean always exciting racing though.

Indycar and NASCAR has lots of overtaking on ovals, but in my eyes, I don't always find them "exciting". Meanwhile a race like at Sufers Paradise for the V8 Supercars when Van Gisbergen was all over the back of Whincup's car for the final few laps but couldn't find a way past was incredibly exciting.

Sure, there many have not loads of overtaking in F1 this year, but in my opinion, you'd have to be very ignorant to say it was "boring". 5 championship contenders right through the year, 4 in the last race, notable incidents in many of the races...what more do you want? Same in '08 with the championship going down to the last corner of the last lap of the last race of the year.

Oh...I forgot. We have some people who are seemingly stuck in 1979...

Edited by JHS

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'79 was a good season. Jody Scheckter taking the honours, and those damn cheating Ferrari's with V12's beating the Ford V8's....

:P

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