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Ferrari (Read Luca) Doesn'T Want New Engines

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Bit of engineering challenge this will be though. To make four cylinders rev to 18000, plus generate power and torque and stay together....it'll be quite fascinating to see who does it best....

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Battling wheel-to-wheel for wins?

Do you watch F1?

Forget it. I just recalled you claimed the 2008 season was "thrilling" even though the title contenders were hardly ever in the same camera shot during the entire season (one won when the other crashed or similar)... true wheel-to-wheel battling (for you) wasn't it?

Sorry if it was unclear; I was talking hypothetical. I was saying I want to see that, not that I have (though I can think of some battles for the lead, albeit rare).

I never called the entire season thrilling, by the way, just the finale. To each his own, though, if you didn't enjoy the race.

And look at how many manufacturers are showing interest in rejoining touring cars and not Formula One right now.

Even VW has elected to enter NASCAR over F1. Honda and Chevrolet will be supplying Indycar engines together. Many manufacturers are interested in entering the likes of V8 Supercars and DTM, including a certain BMW.

F1 shouldn't discount other levels of motorsport.

Thank you for this post. You get it. F1 can't always get by on "but this is F1." You need to start putting out a good product (and no, there's no definition of good, but there's no harm in being multi-dimensional and doing a lot of different things well) if you want to retain the fans, sponsors, and manufactures. A lot of these other series are offering high brand visibility at a much lower cost, and are bringing it to important markets, too. CART gave F1 a scare and they were able to respond and help play a role in tearing it down (imagine that...IRL, F1, and NASCAR all uniting to accomplish something, and the end result was success to them and misery for all of us interested in the U.S. racing scene). There's no reason another series couldn't, whether that's Le Mans or even something surprising like NASCAR (the only nations NASCAR's popularity is increasing in are the ones that aren't the United States).

Wheel to wheel racing doesn't mean always exciting racing though.

Indycar and NASCAR has lots of overtaking on ovals, but in my eyes, I don't always find them "exciting". Meanwhile a race like at Sufers Paradise for the V8 Supercars when Van Gisbergen was all over the back of Whincup's car for the final few laps but couldn't find a way past was incredibly exciting.

Sure, there many have not loads of overtaking in F1 this year, but in my opinion, you'd have to be very ignorant to say it was "boring". 5 championship contenders right through the year, 4 in the last race, notable incidents in many of the races...what more do you want? Same in '08 with the championship going down to the last corner of the last lap of the last race of the year.

Oh...I forgot. We have some people who are seemingly stuck in 1979...

Any time there's a realistic chance for the lead to change hands it's a good race. Doesn't matter if it's an oval and they're side-by-side going to the line, or if the leader is running low on fuel, or if the guy in second is giving him hell and the leader's blocking and there's some contact. When you have to envision outlandish things like "maybe the safety car will come out at a weird time, or it will start raining, or the leader will fall asleep and crash, or his engine will blow up," it's a snoozer. We see both in every series, obviously, but having regulations that might encourage (not manufacture/create) more of the former wouldn't be terrible for F1. I'll openly admit (not surprisingly, I'm sure) that if I had the choice of watching F1 live at a reasonable time or watching a 30 minute highlights program later in the day, I'd take the latter, and many from this generation of "attention deficit" (which is not to say A.D.D./A.D.H.D. are fake, just to say that people are so over-stimulated now it's hard to sit still and enjoy anything) will be doing the same when they're in the coveted 18-35 group. You get around that with a more exciting product, and that doesn't mean dumbing it down. You can still have the intellectual elements present for those fans to enjoy while having more "action" to please others. We don't need boost buttons and random obstacles and explosions and inversions, but we do need to acknowledge it is a sport and it is a business.

I think the big hurdle will be understanding that equalization does not mean standardization, nor does it mean castrating everyone.

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I'm not for nor against the engine change, but it must be said that Luca is pure Ferrari in this; He's taking the stance that Enzo would have taken. It's refreshing to see him acting Ferrari again.

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Then I can't wait til they kill off 4 cylinders engines and introduce lawn mower engines.....

What's next? Solar Power? AAA batteries? Cutting a man hole in the chassis and have the drivers race Flintstones style?

Seriously, there has to be a limit to all these "green" rule changes. There are enough people looking after the environment. F1 is the pinnacle and therefore has a right to indulge a bit. How about reinstating V12 turbos?

This post is so ignorant I nearly through my shoe at the screen. There doesn't have to be a limit to any changes. What there needs to be is a more open minded approach to the impact of our actions and the future sustainability of our world. Be an ostrich if you like, but the grim reality of where we're heading aint pretty. Evey aspect of modern human life owes it to the planet to re-think how it operates. No sport has the 'right' to be irresponsible, just because of a perceived superiority. If anything, Formula One should be leading the way with green technologies. These things filter from the top down, not the other way around. Enough people looking after the environment? All we have is a minority of our race pretending to care. That isn't 'enough' to me.

I say all this as an avid petrol head and a fan of big engines. I'm just not afraid to explore the initially less attractive alternatives.

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This post is so ignorant I nearly through my shoe at the screen. There doesn't have to be a limit to any changes. What there needs to be is a more open minded approach to the impact of our actions and the future sustainability of our world. Be an ostrich if you like, but the grim reality of where we're heading aint pretty. Evey aspect of modern human life owes it to the planet to re-think how it operates. No sport has the 'right' to be irresponsible, just because of a perceived superiority. If anything, Formula One should be leading the way with green technologies. These things filter from the top down, not the other way around. Enough people looking after the environment? All we have is a minority of our race pretending to care. That isn't 'enough' to me.

I say all this as an avid petrol head and a fan of big engines. I'm just not afraid to explore the initially less attractive alternatives.

Oh dear, you've gone and sipped the Kool-Aid.

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He's taking the stance that Enzo would have taken. It's refreshing to see him acting Ferrari again.

Yeah. Still putting the engines in the front while the rest of the field disappeared into the distance.

I'm amazed by the snobbish attitude towards the new engines. Because that's just what it is, snobbery. And a good deal of ignorance.

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I'm amazed by the snobbish attitude towards the new engines. Because that's just what it is, snobbery. And a good deal of ignorance.

Well said. We're in 2011, not the past.

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Oh dear, you've gone and sipped the Kool-Aid.

Sorry, this went straight over the top of my head. Explain.

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Goes back to Jonestown, I believe. You can look it up, but it equates roughly, I suppose, to hook, line and sinker.

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Wikipedia; "the phrase suggests that one has mindlessly adopted the dogma of a group or leader without fully understanding the ramifications or implications". Do I take it this is what Mike thinks? I'll wait and see....

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Good-guy John:

I wonder? Would I be awesomed-out by a 1.6 turbo, topped up with regurgitated electrickery, producing c700 bhp, with a huge reduction in fuel consumption? Yes, certainly. I love beautiful engines, I love the technology that can make more from the original power sources (going and stopping), I love that F1 has (in the past) been a 'war zone' of massive improvement introduced through dire urgency - the need to win, quickly.

Bad-guy John:

Howling V12 beasts move me, thundering V8's - you become part of the car's vibes through the ground shaking, screaming V6's sound how alien space-craft should do (they hum y'know). The noise and feel of the engines have always been such an integral part of the sport for me.

Conclusion:

The patient is fcuked doctor.

Part of him lives in the past, clinging onto something that's changed in every way from its introduction to the patient's brain cell forty-odd years ago, times when F1 team owners didn't speak PR BS, when sniffing petrol was good for you, and the car's sounds made all followers of F1 slide comfortably into Tourette's syndrome.

The patient is conscious of the world changing, and the need to make more out of what we have available, that we need to be squeezing absolutely everything we can from what we've got; with the minimum waste, at the lowest weight, producing the maximum power possible.... ohh.... er.... maybe I should remind the patient.... isn't that what Formula 1 was supposed to be about?

;)

Edited by medilloni

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The guy who thinks that oil is more "macho" than green alternatives is too clueless t o bother. Nothing like the sweet sound and smell of horses.

With that in mind, I don't see the problem of green racing and Monaco. D I miss the sound of V10s? Yes. Did that ruin this season? Nope.

Bring on 4L cars working on soy sauce. If the battle is good, I don't give a crap if its battled with swords or Ak47s.

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Bit of engineering challenge this will be though. To make four cylinders rev to 18000, plus generate power and torque and stay together....it'll be quite fascinating to see who does it best....

To me, this is what Formula One is about. Seeing who does it best. The pinnacle of motorsport is not all about big huge growling i'm-a-man-look-at-the-size-of-my-balls attitudes (although...nah just kidding :P), chestbeating like cavemen and shouting 'ug ug' at the loudest and biggest engine that comes by. Its about innovation. Utilising the best to engineer something that can maximise performance better than the other teams. Creating that engine/chassis that blows the competition out of the water. And if it has four cylinders in it, is quick and generates everything it should and balances the car well, then ****ing stop your prissy whining, shut up, and watch the damned tv. The pinnacle of motorsport is about showing the world how its done and against all odds, it can be done.

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To me, this is what Formula One is about. Seeing who does it best. The pinnacle of motorsport is not all about big huge growling i'm-a-man-look-at-the-size-of-my-balls attitudes (although...nah just kidding :P), chestbeating like cavemen and shouting 'ug ug' at the loudest and biggest engine that comes by. Its about innovation. Utilising the best to engineer something that can maximise performance better than the other teams. Creating that engine/chassis that blows the competition out of the water. And if it has four cylinders in it, is quick and generates everything it should and balances the car well, then ****ing stop your prissy whining, shut up, and watch the damned tv. The pinnacle of motorsport is about showing the world how its done and against all odds, it can be done.

By definition f1 can´t be the pinnacle of motorsport with engine fixed architecture! I would like to see who make the best engine despite of its number of cylinders!!!!!!!

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By definition f1 can´t be the pinnacle of motorsport with engine fixed architecture! I would like to see who make the best engine despite of its number of cylinders!!!!!!!

I said that didn't I? Oh man i'm confused. My chimp brain can't take no more. I already used up my brainpower allowance today.

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I really don´t care in a engine has 4 cyl or 8 or 10 or 12 I think this should be a manufacter choice; The FIA and the F1 regulators should only said here you have 300 lts of gas for the weekend have fun and remember next year you will have only 250 lts per race and the next year 220 etc for the next 10 years. In that scenario each manufacturer choice to have their best engines ferrari probably will use a V12, maybe Renault will use a Turbo 4L or maybe all the manucfactures agrees that the V6Turbo is the best choice.

F1 must be about liberty of choice and most of all liberty to be wrong not about standarization.

Mario

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Yeah. Still putting the engines in the front while the rest of the field disappeared into the distance.

I'm amazed by the snobbish attitude towards the new engines. Because that's just what it is, snobbery. And a good deal of ignorance.

Indeed. Luca is of a bygone era. F1 is about cutting edge tech and the new engine formula is pretty cutting edge.

Wikipedia; "the phrase suggests that one has mindlessly adopted the dogma of a group or leader without fully understanding the ramifications or implications". Do I take it this is what Mike thinks? I'll wait and see....

That's why I said 'sipped'. You've not completely lost the plot, but I do think anyone who tries to suggest F1 needs to be 'green' or 'road-relevant' is slightly off-kilter. For me, F1 is about speed and tech and driver daring-do. Put fluorescent bulbs in your house but leave F1 out of it. The amount of pollution generated by a race is irrelevant.

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That's why I said 'sipped'. You've not completely lost the plot, but I do think anyone who tries to suggest F1 needs to be 'green' or 'road-relevant' is slightly off-kilter. For me, F1 is about speed and tech and driver daring-do. Put fluorescent bulbs in your house but leave F1 out of it. The amount of pollution generated by a race is irrelevant.

If they want to see manufacturers come back though, they have no option to.

I guess some manufacturers will only be interested in playing if F1 has some green credentials that can eventually be used on road cars.

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If they want to see manufacturers come back though, they have no option to.

I guess some manufacturers will only be interested in playing if F1 has some green credentials that can eventually be used on road cars.

Everything is marketing and image, James, not road-relevance. The manufactures return when they get advertising value for the money they have to commit. And the green part? It has nothing to do with putting the technology in road cars. It has everything to do with creating an image that they are green and innovative. It's just rationalizing F1 involvement for the public to make it seem like their exploits to advertise and create an image are actually accomplishing something important (and I say that in a nice tone, not a saucy one. Being involved in a sport shouldn't have to be about achieving anything more important than advertising). It's all P.R.

So you're partially right. The green stuff might bring some more manufactures on board, but it has nothing to do with road-relevance or technological development. It's all image. That's why Ferrari are opposed; they want the entirely different image.

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Indeed. Luca is of a bygone era. F1 is about cutting edge tech and the new engine formula is pretty cutting edge.

That's why I said 'sipped'. You've not completely lost the plot, but I do think anyone who tries to suggest F1 needs to be 'green' or 'road-relevant' is slightly off-kilter. For me, F1 is about speed and tech and driver daring-do. Put fluorescent bulbs in your house but leave F1 out of it. The amount of pollution generated by a race is irrelevant.

Not really. You don't have to make the sport completely anal where it follows 'being green' completely. I used to think '**** it, lets have it all' but I see Steve's point. It doesn't have to affect every aspect of F1. Why not have the greener fuel if it gives one more century to the planet. Why not try to reduce emissions? Use materials that are less damaging. Recycle materials that are no longer used? I would try and ditch the tyre rule if all teams were in favour of using recycled rubber. Donate x amount to whatever charity that helps the planet from the sales of tickets. There is lots of ways to help our environment and our future generations environment that don't necessarily affect the sports racing element. Sorry mate, but i'm agreeing with dribbler for the most part. Pass the Kool-aid please. ;)

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Indeed. Luca is of a bygone era. F1 is about cutting edge tech and the new engine formula is pretty cutting edge.

That's why I said 'sipped'. You've not completely lost the plot, but I do think anyone who tries to suggest F1 needs to be 'green' or 'road-relevant' is slightly off-kilter. For me, F1 is about speed and tech and driver daring-do. Put fluorescent bulbs in your house but leave F1 out of it. The amount of pollution generated by a race is irrelevant.

You always have to make the point about 'driver daring' when this is nothing to do with the discussion. I'm well aware of your desire for danger and blood, but it has no relevance here. The only thing it ties in with is irresponsible engine technolgies from that bygone era. You can wish for it to be like the good old days all you like, Mike, but the world needs to move on.

The pollution generated by a race might be insignificant but it's very relevant. The very fact we all dismiss our tiny toxic outputs and therefore deem them acceptable is exactly the problem. Not only that, but the point I was making was one of F1's responsibility to lead the way with green technologies as a way of thinking, not to replicate the exact components for road cars. We need a shift in attitudes.

I don't think I have lost the plot, I just think you're ignoring it.

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Not really. You don't have to make the sport completely anal where it follows 'being green' completely. I used to think '**** it, lets have it all' but I see Steve's point. It doesn't have to affect every aspect of F1. Why not have the greener fuel if it gives one more century to the planet. Why not try to reduce emissions? Use materials that are less damaging. Recycle materials that are no longer used? I would try and ditch the tyre rule if all teams were in favour of using recycled rubber. Donate x amount to whatever charity that helps the planet from the sales of tickets. There is lots of ways to help our environment and our future generations environment that don't necessarily affect the sports racing element. Sorry mate, but i'm agreeing with dribbler for the most part. Pass the Kool-aid please. ;)

No, I agree with this, mostly. If 'greener' tech is more useful to making the car go faster than non-green tech, then I'm ok with it. I don't like to see 'green' tech added for it's own sake.

You always have to make the point about 'driver daring' when this is nothing to do with the discussion. I'm well aware of your desire for danger and blood, but it has no relevance here. The only thing it ties in with is irresponsible engine technolgies from that bygone era. You can wish for it to be like the good old days all you like, Mike, but the world needs to move on.

I brought that up to illustrate the total package, if you will. See my response to Steph above, tho.

The pollution generated by a race might be insignificant but it's very relevant. The very fact we all dismiss our tiny toxic outputs and therefore deem them acceptable is exactly the problem. Not only that, but the point I was making was one of F1's responsibility to lead the way with green technologies as a way of thinking, not to replicate the exact components for road cars. We need a shift in attitudes.

If it's insignificant than it's also irrelevant. I would think that to be obvious. If you want to save the planet, do so on road cars which *may* have a bigger impact. F1 has no responsibility except to provide fast cars to daring drivers. Anything more is just added by you. There are plenty of saloon car races out there to use as a proving ground for 'green' tech that would apply far better to road cars than F1.

I don't think I have lost the plot, I just think you're ignoring it.

Pop a beer and think about it again.

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If it's insignificant than it's also irrelevant. I would think that to be obvious. If you want to save the planet, do so on road cars which *may* have a bigger impact. F1 has no responsibility except to provide fast cars to daring drivers. Anything more is just added by you. There are plenty of saloon car races out there to use as a proving ground for 'green' tech that would apply far better to road cars than F1.

If Obama shot someone, the impact on population numbers for the US would be insignificant. Its implications for the American public as a whole would be highly significant. So, I maintain that as F1 is such a high profile, perception and marketing led endeavour, its green credentials have an impact. Kids growing up seeing eco-responsible motor sport are far more likely to see green behaviour in motoring as a whole, normal.

I agree with you that F1 does not have a responsibility, I just think it should have.

Pop a beer and think about it again.

Would love to, and who knows, I may feel different if I did, but I can't. Mrs drib may need driving to the hospital any minute now. Maybe that's why I'm feeling so ratty!

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If Obama shot someone, the impact on population numbers for the US would be insignificant. Its implications for the American public as a whole would be highly significant. So, I maintain that as F1 is such a high profile, perception and marketing led endeavour, its green credentials have an impact. Kids growing up seeing eco-responsible motor sport are far more likely to see green behaviour in motoring as a whole, normal.

That's a fair point.

I agree with you that F1 does not have a responsibility, I just think it should have.

Given your example above, I might agree with you.

Would love to, and who knows, I may feel different if I did, but I can't. Mrs drib may need driving to the hospital any minute now. Maybe that's why I'm feeling so ratty!

I will pop a beer for you, and perhaps I'll have a bit of a think.

This reminds me of when my first daughter was born and the moment I truly became a father. It wasn't when the baby slid out all covered in lasagna and it wasn't when I cut the cord. It was when I buckled her carrier into the car as we were leaving the hospital. You see, for the first two days after the birth, the nice hospital staff took care of my daughter. We only really saw her at feeding time and a few hours when she was awake and we really didn't get the impression that we were 'on our own'. As I sat behind the wheel and was about to drive away from those nice, knowledgeable hospital nurses, I realized that my wife and I were on our own. We were it. No safety net. I'm dad. I hope you get to experience that terror as well. It's first of many rites of passage. ;)

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Green is just a marketing stamp that people want to add to every single product on the planet. F1 is one of those products eager to have their green stamp on it but "guys, this is ridiculous". We can all be very ver very green. Most of us don't need engines bigger than 1,000 cc. and 60-70 hp. We don't need a TV bigger than 30 inch. We don't need more than a pair of shoes every 5 years. A motorbike bigger than 50 cc., a computer bigger than a pentium 1 Ghz, a mobile phone bigger than the good old nokia...

We don't need F1 at all if we want to be green. We have all the technology already to have a much much greneer planet with a "small impact" in our life style. It's hard to think about F1 and green together if we're talking seriously and no demagoguery is allowed in the debate.

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