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Autumnpuma

Red Bull Will Suffer Most In 2011

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I don't think the logic need to be technical. Ask yourself this; Level playing field, all technical director's together. Who's your money on to design the best car. Mine is on Newey. Isn't that all we're talking about here?

Of course, everyone's cash will be on Adrian to pull it off again, [not his pudding, I might add!] but I'm a little dubious that it will be of the same order as last year if he does. As I have mentioned before, there are other brilliant men at work and I hear that most of the top teams were well advanced with their 2011 cars long before 2010 faded out. We shall see. I think RBRs real problems will surface in 2012. Yesterday, LDM stated that Ferrari were not 'after' Vettel which probably means they definitely are. I can see Webber retiring if he doesn't win the WDC this year and Mateschiz may have two seats to fill. There's always something around the corner in F1.wacko.gif

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I really don't believe the EBD was the holy grail of Red Bull's speed. I am sure they will still be fast this year.

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Of course, everyone's cash will be on Adrian to pull it off again, [not his pudding, I might add!] but I'm a little dubious that it will be of the same order as last year if he does. As I have mentioned before, there are other brilliant men at work and I hear that most of the top teams were well advanced with their 2011 cars long before 2010 faded out. We shall see. I think RBRs real problems will surface in 2012. Yesterday, LDM stated that Ferrari were not 'after' Vettel which probably means they definitely are. I can see Webber retiring if he doesn't win the WDC this year and Mateschiz may have two seats to fill. There's always something around the corner in F1.wacko.gif

Interesting. Two thoughts spring to mind; Do Ferrari need and would Alonso accept Vettel? And are you saying that RBR having two seats to fill would be a problem? If they remain dominant, surely it won't matter too much who goes there?

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Do you even bother to read my entire posts? Was I really saying that because of only the double diffuser being gone Red Bull will suffer? If you can't answer my posts with anything more competent than this, please don't try. I'm a bit tired of explaining my position in depth only to have it summed up wrongly, having a piece pulled out and touted as my 'argument'.

To re-state: Red Bull was so much quicker than her rivals because of a raised nose that created front-end downforce, a bendy splitter that bent the nose further to the ground to create front-end grip, and a blown diffuser (and other odd design bits) that created rear-end downforce. The other teams *did not* have this whole package to the extent that Red Bull did. With those elements gone, Red Bull will be back with the McLaren and the Ferrari. Indeed, those teams, having not relied as heavily as Red Bull did on the design elements stated above, will not need nearly the extent of chassis re-design that Red Bull will need.

Is that clear enough? I can't use smaller words, sorry. ;)

I think the problem is that you're underestimating Newey. The fact that RB is "back",and I say repeat this very tentatively, with Mclaren and Ferrari gives more emphasis on Newey having to find something unique to set Red Bull apart. Why could'nt another designer come up with a bendy splitter that creates more downforce and sets the car apart, what about the fact that being hampered with stringent test on the front wing, the RedBull still had a slight edge over it's rivals. a Man who designed championship cars for 3 teams knows what he's doing, and my bet is we'll be back discussing Newey's latest innovation (probably in the chassis re-design, an area which Newey really can concentrate on now, as you mention) in this same thread come 1st race. With the teams so evenly match, a man of Neweys capabilities are the exact reason why a certain team might have a slight edge, but for now we can all just speculate...

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I really don't believe the EBD was the holy grail of Red Bull's speed. I am sure they will still be fast this year.

Please, for the love of God, go back and read my entire post. You're singling out *one* element and making a blanket statement about it. That is *not* what I've been saying.

I think the problem is that you're underestimating Newey. The fact that RB is "back",and I say repeat this very tentatively, with Mclaren and Ferrari gives more emphasis on Newey having to find something unique to set Red Bull apart. Why could'nt another designer come up with a bendy splitter that creates more downforce and sets the car apart, what about the fact that being hampered with stringent test on the front wing, the RedBull still had a slight edge over it's rivals. a Man who designed championship cars for 3 teams knows what he's doing, and my bet is we'll be back discussing Newey's latest innovation (probably in the chassis re-design, an area which Newey really can concentrate on now, as you mention) in this same thread come 1st race. With the teams so evenly match, a man of Neweys capabilities are the exact reason why a certain team might have a slight edge, but for now we can all just speculate...

Newey is good, no doubt about it, but there have been many years where a Newey-designed car hasn't won, or has won very little. I believe Nick Tombazis (spelling?) came up with a similar bendy-splitter idea at Ferrari a few years ago. It's an old idea.

I suppose I could detach my brain and just jump on the 'faith in Newey' bandwagon, but I think I'll go with Sean's opinion on this. Red Bull will make a good car, but the competition will be much closer than last year, if not surpassing Red Bull.

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Interesting. Two thoughts spring to mind; Do Ferrari need and would Alonso accept Vettel? And are you saying that RBR having two seats to fill would be a problem? If they remain dominant, surely it won't matter too much who goes there?

Ferrari have seen what happens from McLaren in '07 when you pair Alonso with an equal. For me, their interest will be in having Fernando as a #1 and having a number 2 in their other seat.

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I think after the first test we can safely asume they won't be any worse than '10. Whether they'll be any better remains to be seen.

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I think after the first test we can safely asume they won't be any worse than '10. Whether they'll be any better remains to be seen.

My feeling is that the other teams will give them a far harder time this season. I may be proven wrong, some other team may even do what Red Bull have done, just a feeling I get.

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Well, I was totally and completely wrong. Happens sometimes. Faith in Newey's brilliance has won the day! Damned fine and very revolutionary car he's designed despite rules that seemed to target last year's car.

Craig, sir, you rock. You were dead-nuts on with your thoughts here. Turns out the pull-rod suspension is a vital part of their new, low-slung rear-end...and probably will be the key to their success in '11.

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true! red bull has an advantage and all other teams are trying to get on same level, that is what they have been doing all season.

they have copied all that they could see from red bull, but most of the newey's solutions was out of their sight ( how happy where they when webber collided with kovy and flew in air showing them red bulls floor ). then they turned to develop f-duct , just to gain some advantage to red bull.

how much did they learn from red bull i don't know, but i know that red bulls new car is extension to their 2009. and 2010. technology.

other teams, mainly mclaren and ferrari,now have to adapt it in a short time because they lost time due to fact that they had to concetrate to 2010 cars until the last race.

so maybe mercedes team has advantage compared to ferrari and mclaren because they have started with car development earlier.

sauber to have a good car in 2011? not a chance! not even if oprah would drive for them and give them all of her money!

GO OPRAH!

i was right

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i was right

I would say so, but I would have liked it better if you'd been a bit more specific on what 'technology' was carried over. Craig did that, you did not. But you're right anyhow.

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Adrian seems to be entering another purple patch. But how many humdingers in a row can he produce? All it needs is another anteater.......

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Ahh the anteater. We all but should experience one once in our lives. The fond memories we could all share.....oh, wait...this isn't the Sir David Attenborough Forum?

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Well this topic was an epic fail lmao!

To be fair though I fully expected Red Bull to have a year like Mercedes had last year but looks like they will be leading from the front yet again!

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