DOF_power

Fifa Ballon D'Or

35 posts in this topic

Anyone watches football around here ?!

I don't see how Messi won (with no Champions League or World Cup success), when Xavi and Sneijder were much more influential and worthy winners.

I agree with Jose being the best coach though.

Edited by DOF_power

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Nobody knows what the prize means.

Messi was the best 2010 player but they gave it to Cannavaro against Zidane because the italian played great in the 2006 World Cup. Having that in mind I think both Sneijder and Xavi deserved it more than Messi but voters don't really watch them playing, they just watch a replay with the goals and Messi has a bigger chance than Sneijder and Xavi. If you play in a very important Club more voters watch you playing and you get a bigger chance of winning it.

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We in south america know nothing about footbal... so Messi no Champions league success after won all with the Barca in the last 3 years. He had no W Cup success as Sneijder, but he is not a mediocre player like the orange!

Xavi and Iniesta are great players but a step below Lio and carry Spain lack of history -is really good news after years of buying the best players in the world, spaniards learnt how to play!

If you really think Jose is the best coach after Barca 5 vs. Real M 0 you have no cure.

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We in south america know nothing about footbal... so Messi no Champions league success after won all with the Barca in the last 3 years. He had no W Cup success as Sneijder, but he is not a mediocre player like the orange!

Xavi and Iniesta are great players but a step below Lio and carry Spain lack of history -is really good news after years of buying the best players in the world, spaniards learnt how to play!

Is it a prize about a whole year or about success on all the competitions or... Because they have changed their motto depending on who won the prize in the past. Messi is the best player in the world but they used to say it's not about who is the best player but who succeded the most in a given year having played well of course. The debat will always be there.

If you really think Jose is the best coach after Barca 5 vs. Real M 0 you have no cure.

That's the question again. Is it a prize for just one match or about the whole 2010.

Shsss, you have only one World Cup more than Spain. :D

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That's the question again. Is it a prize for just one match or about the whole 2010.

Jose played catenaccio with Inter; now at Real he can´t play like an Helenio Herrera clone and he has no idea on how to play. It is very easy to be a coach with endless funds like Jose at Chelsea, Inter and Real. I think Manuel Pellegrini is a better coach since he put Villareal in a Champions league semifinal with almost no stars -except Riquelme.

When you take in consideration the results you must take in consideration the resources too. A 3rd place for Ferrari is a defeat; the same for lotus is like to reach the sky!

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:lol: Ok before another Spanish-Argentinian war erupt, here are my comments as a less-than-casual football follower, but very avid news reader:

1) IMHO it's true: Lio is the best, not only because I've seen him scoring the goals every weekend we saw Pele or Maradona pulled once a year...and they became legends for those, but also because of his qualities as a spportsman and as a person. The guy is very humble despite earning more millions than Rosberg's hairdresser. He is also very generous on the field, and besides doing amazing goals with easy, he assists in 60% of every other goal scoreed by Barca. What amazes me is that he can handle being at the top of the top, handling all that pressure, the media, the money, the fame...and still not having to resort to drugs, not needing to be a prima donna...he is just a simple, shy and reserved guy.

2) Those qualities were recognized not also by Iniesta and Xavi which said that Lio deserved the award despite not winning the WC.

3) Messi himself said that he didn't deserve the prize and that Iniesta and Xavi deserved it better (I think he even hinted that Iniesta should be the winner). He said that before the awards, during his speech at the awards, and afterwards. In any case, it was obvious that Xavi and Iniesta were both more than worthy of the prize no matter how you look at it.

4) I understand the Spaniard's anger. As Alex says, it's not about who is the best sportsman, but who performed better in the past year and according to the previous awards, for that they usually take more in account championships than mere good plays. Under that common practice, the prize should have gone to Iniesta or Xavi, and it would have been perfectly fair. In fact, if it weren't for Messi's other qualities that I mentioned, and just for their playing skills, Iniesta and Xavi are almost at the same level as Lio, and if somebody argued with me that they are at the same level as him I wouldnt have many reasons to disagree.

5) As usual, these "awards" given by some jury are usually unfair and worthless. Ditto goes to the Nobel Prize and the Oscars, if you ask me.

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As someone who doesn't really like football that much, but who did watch the world cup, all I can say is: Messi stood out!

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All of the above are overpaid anyway, and none of them are worthy. Messi et al may very well be great players but success is measured these days by money.

I love football but growing disillusioned by the day, and not just for the team I support. (I genuinely think Dalglish will inject some life into the squad)

Football needs a Robert Kubica to remind others that its alright to play for the love of it and anything else is a bonus.

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Jose played catenaccio with Inter; now at Real he can´t play like an Helenio Herrera clone and he has no idea on how to play. It is very easy to be a coach with endless funds like Jose at Chelsea, Inter and Real. I think Manuel Pellegrini is a better coach since he put Villareal in a Champions league semifinal with almost no stars -except Riquelme.

When you take in consideration the results you must take in consideration the resources too. A 3rd place for Ferrari is a defeat; the same for lotus is like to reach the sky!

Porto didn't have endless funds, and Inter got money from Barca + Samuel Eto'o.

I'm sorry but you're talking nonsense. Benitez did little to nothing with the team he got from Jose.

Pellegrini is not on the same level, not even far.

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We in south america know nothing about footbal... so Messi no Champions league success after won all with the Barca in the last 3 years. He had no W Cup success as Sneijder, but he is not a mediocre player like the orange!

Xavi and Iniesta are great players but a step below Lio and carry Spain lack of history -is really good news after years of buying the best players in the world, spaniards learnt how to play!

If you really think Jose is the best coach after Barca 5 vs. Real M 0 you have no cure.

Messi did what exactly without Xavi and Iniesta ?!

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All of the above are overpaid anyway, and none of them are worthy. Messi et al may very well be great players but success is measured these days by money.

I love football but growing disillusioned by the day, and not just for the team I support. (I genuinely think Dalglish will inject some life into the squad)

Football needs a Robert Kubica to remind others that its alright to play for the love of it and anything else is a bonus.

He's got no central/deep playmaker, and I don't think he's more then a 4-4-2 coach.

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Jose played catenaccio with Inter; now at Real he can´t play like an Helenio Herrera clone and he has no idea on how to play. It is very easy to be a coach with endless funds like Jose at Chelsea, Inter and Real. I think Manuel Pellegrini is a better coach since he put Villareal in a Champions league semifinal with almost no stars -except Riquelme.

You probably watched that match against Barça away. He had to play that way once Motta was sent off but he didn't play like that as his philosophy at Inter.

The problem is that he's playing something like 4-2-4, with just Xabi Alonso and Khedira or Lass Diarra in the middle ant it isn't going to work in the long term, especially against midfield focused teams with high % ball posession. I think Gago could be a good player to balance the midfield if he stays out of injuries for a while. Ronaldo, Di Maria and Benzema (I hope Higuaín gets well soon, we missed him against Barça) do not perform as a good midfielder if they play in the middle. Özil might be able to do it for a while but not a whole match.

I think Pellegrini is a good coach but it's hard to say were he stands against other very good coaches because Florentino Pérez didn't let him work in peace. He wanted to keep Sneijder(15 M€ to Inter) and Robben(25 M€ to Munich) and they brought Benzema (35 M€ from Lyon) and Kaká (65 M€ from Milan). Utterly absurd.

:lol: Ok before another Spanish-Argentinian war erupt, here are my comments as a less-than-casual football follower, but very avid news reader:

Did Argento call General San Martín already? :lol:

I agree with you, Andrés. Very good summary.

Porto didn't have endless funds, and Inter got money from Barca + Samuel Eto'o.

I'm sorry but you're talking nonsense. Benitez did little to nothing with the team he got from Jose.

In fact Barça paid for Ibrahimovic (45 M€ + Eto'o) nearly as much as Real for Ronaldo (94 M€).

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He's got no central/deep playmaker, and I don't think he's more then a 4-4-2 coach.

4-4-2 worked for the other titles he won, and not just with Liverpool. And I did say he'd inject life into the squad, therefore scouting for that playmaker. Needs a deeper defence too.

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4-4-2 worked for the other titles he won, and not just with Liverpool. And I did say he'd inject life into the squad, therefore scouting for that playmaker. Needs a deeper defence too.

The last 4-4-2 team winning the Champions League was MU in 1999, witch had a False 9 striker and was more of a 4-5-1 actually.

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You probably watched that match against Barça away. He had to play that way once Motta was sent off but he didn't play like that as his philosophy at Inter.

The problem is that he's playing something like 4-2-4, with just Xabi Alonso and Khedira or Lass Diarra in the middle ant it isn't going to work in the long term, especially against midfield focused teams with high % ball posession. I think Gago could be a good player to balance the midfield if he stays out of injuries for a while. Ronaldo, Di Maria and Benzema (I hope Higuaín gets well soon, we missed him against Barça) do not perform as a good midfielder if they play in the middle. Özil might be able to do it for a while but not a whole match.

I think Pellegrini is a good coach but it's hard to say were he stands against other very good coaches because Florentino Pérez didn't let him work in peace. He wanted to keep Sneijder(15 M€ to Inter) and Robben(25 M€ to Munich) and they brought Benzema (35 M€ from Lyon) and Kaká (65 M€ from Milan). Utterly absurd.

Did Argento call General San Martín already? :lol:

I agree with you, Andrés. Very good summary.

In fact Barça paid for Ibrahimovic (45 M€ + Eto'o) nearly as much as Real for Ronaldo (94 M€).

The 4-2-3-1/ 4-2-4 was one of the systems that worked at Inter along side a 4-2-3-1/ 3-5-1-1.

Real has 3 players ( Ronaldo - Ozil - Benzema ) that don't do anything defensively and another player (Xabi Alonso) who's not consistent at defending. That's a far cry from Inter were all 10 pitch players could defend well/ very well if/ when necessary. There's also no world class fullbacks.

Perez "builds" a team ridiculously.

Barca is hyper-defensive, with a 4-1-4-1/ 4-5-1 defense, that's 9 men behind the ball, just that they defend/ intercept up the pitch.

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4-4-2 worked for the other titles he won, and not just with Liverpool. And I did say he'd inject life into the squad, therefore scouting for that playmaker. Needs a deeper defence too.

I think 4-4-2 can still work fine if you have a group of good players. Maybe you need some tweaking for a few matches as usually.

All the best for Liverpool FC.

The 4-2-3-1/ 4-2-4 was one of the systems that worked at Inter along side a 4-2-3-1/ 3-5-1-1.

Real has 3 players ( Ronaldo - Ozil - Benzema ) that don't do anything defensively and another player (Xabi Alonso) who's not consistent at defending. That's a far cry from Inter were all 10 pitch players could defend well/ very well if/ when necessary. There's also no world class fullbacks.

They way teams defend today are a bit diferent. You just need good positioning and players that move the ball very around the midfielders. You need quality more than tradional defending style. I think Real Madrid will play with Ozil and Kaká very soon unless Benzema starts playing much better. If your rival dominate the ball and the midfield you're lost.

Perez "builds" a team ridiculously.

On that we agree 100%.

Barca is hyper-defensive, with a 4-1-4-1/ 4-5-1 defense, that's 9 men behind the ball, just that they defend/ intercept up the pitch.

Barça can sometimes a bit boring watching but they're not hyper-defensive. They have a strong group of midfielders around Xabi that move the ball damn quick and recover it very quick too. They normaly win because they have very good players and dominate the midfield, the ball and rivals.

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He's got no central/deep playmaker, and I don't think he's more then a 4-4-2 coach.

He hasn't managed for 10 years, so I fail to see how anyone can say what sort of manager he is going to be. The premiership has changed a lot in that time, so we have no idea how Kenny is going to react to those changes. In fact I am not sure we even need him to react to those changes at this point, we just need somebody to get more out of the squad than Roy was getting, for whatever reason.

Personally, I think there has become a little too much obsession with trying to counteract the way your opponents are playing. Of course, you will always have to tweak along the way, but I think sometimes you should play to your strengths and not get bogged down with how your opponents are going to play.

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The last 4-4-2 team winning the Champions League was MU in 1999, witch had a False 9 striker and was more of a 4-5-1 actually.

So the last team to win the champions league playing 4-4-2 wasn't MU then?? :eusa_think:

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I think 4-4-2 can still work fine if you have a group of good players. Maybe you need some tweaking for a few matches as usually.

All the best for Liverpool FC.

Indeed. Playing well as a unit is more important.

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So the last team to win the champions league playing 4-4-2 wasn't MU then?? :eusa_think:

I can't remember/ don't know any team playing a vanilla 4-4-2 (as in a 4-4-2 with no False 9 and no DM) winning the Champions League.

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They have a strong group of midfielders around Xabi that move the ball damn quick and recover it very quick too. They normaly win because they have very good players and dominate the midfield, the ball and rivals.

That's exactly what I said. Barca are hyper-defensive via possession combined with quick interception (with 8-9 men) high up the pitch, as opposed to backtracking and intercepting down the pitch.

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4-4-2 worked for the other titles he won, and not just with Liverpool. And I did say he'd inject life into the squad, therefore scouting for that playmaker. Needs a deeper defence too.

4-4-2 is dead, in vanilla shape.

Teams play a 4-5-1 with a DM that looks like 4-4-2, but one of the strikers is a False 9 that drops into the midfield (Cantona, Zola and Co. started this trend).

Cantona is the reason MU started to become the top PL team, because he turned the 4-4-2 into a 4-5-1, pulled defenders from position, created numerical superiority and so forth.

The 4-4-2 kick and rush teams in the EPL (basically all the EPL teams in early-mid 90s) were overwhelmed and confused.

The Arsenal 2004 team was 4-2-2-2/ 4-2-3-1 (and 4-4-1-1 in defense) hybrid, with 2 holding mids, a False 9 striker, a drifting CF (Henry) and 2 attacking wide-midfielders/wingers/inside forwards (Pires, Ljungberg). It was called a 4-4-2, but never actually was one. It's like current Bayern team.

Now even the 4-4-2/4-5-1 DM system is dead, as the 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3 systems tem become 4-6-0 or even 3-7-0 for a lot of the time.

Barca's 4-3-3 or 3-4-3 formation is actually a 4-6-0/4-3-3-0 or 3-7-0/3-1-3-3-0 formation (with not even one striker in the box).

The only way a "4-4-2" formation to work is drop both strikers into the midfield. But it would be 4-6-0 formation in reality.

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Personally, I think there has become a little too much obsession with trying to counteract the way your opponents are playing. Of course, you will always have to tweak along the way, but I think sometimes you should play to your strengths and not get bogged down with how your opponents are going to play.

A group of players ready to put up a fight against any rival, if you have to change too many things too often depending on the rival it's no good.

The only way a "4-4-2" formation to work is drop both strikers into the midfield. But it would be 4-6-0 formation in reality.

I see what you meant, I agree but the only way any reasonable x-y-z formation can work is having a group of good players, commitment and hard work. Ideally I think you need some very good midfielders. If you're a superior team on the midfield you're more likely to success.

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