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Kopite Girl

Jenson Button

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I got this idea from Caesar making a joke in the Massa thread.

Now we all know that i'm an absolutely nutty, totally dizzy and completely biased Buttonite. But I will try to be objective and look at it from all angles. My bias shall be left at the door.

Before I can answer this myself, I'd like to hear what you all think. Can Button win the championship again, at McLaren with Hamilton as his team mate?

Discuss.

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If Mclaren produced a good car he'd be in the fight, no doubt about it. Jenson in a car which suits his driving style is a formidable opponent for anyone. I just think that when it comes down to the ugly stuff, the psychological warfare, the aggressive overtakes and all that, Lewis would prevail (he has the experience there and the personality too).

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i will quote my statement from Felipe Massa topic:

i expect loud reaction on my next statement, but what the hell...

at this moment i don't consider vettel and button as drivers at same level, (maybe they shouldn't be at same level because button has lot of experience, and vettel is still very young).

button maybe isn't best driver in the world right now, but in 2009., when he had faster car, he used his dominance perfectly,he won 6 out of 7 races at beginning,he used it better then rubens, unlike vettel who struggled for whole 2010 season in a dominant car, being at same level as webber. he was proclaimed many time for non-aggressive driving, but i call it driving as gentleman. many time this year we were witnnesses of drivers who took out himself and other drivers when they try to overtake them. better drivers are easier to be overtaken because they have wide perspective of condition in the race and position of his own and other drivers on track. they know when to let go.

and button adapted with mclaren very quickly and fought for championship in worse car.

compare button in 2009 and vettel in 2010.

so for me there are Kubica, Hamilton, Alonso, Raikkonen and Button in the same class.

--next come vettel webber massa rubens rosberg

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Get a ride in a dominant car and even you can win a championship. So can he win a Championship? Of course he can. But that's something Massa was able to do as well. The question is: how many things that he can't change (either because no driver can change them or simply because Button particularly can't change) need to work for him in order to win a WDC?

Lewis is prone to errors. But he also can come back from out of nowhere and fight. He can be great from pole and crush the opposition. But he can also come from the back in a dog of a car and (when he does not make a bump too many and trashes his car) fight for a win.

Lewis perspires childish arrogance and every bad thing I can say aboutu him, but also perspires that he would try to win even if left on foot. No matter the car, no matter the track, no matter the starting position. He will fail, and not few of those times because of his own stupidity, but he will try. That's what Nando, Lewis and Schumi have (well, Schumi had at least). Oh yes, they will cry and moan and bitch about the cars not suiting them, the pnats not suiting them, the teammates not suiting them. They will have all the bad traits we are aware of. But on track? They will fight and live or die there.

Button IMHO has not shown that. Yes, you will tell me about that race everybody forgot in which he did something that can be interpreted as this. The truth is, most people and apparently the paddock praise JB for his perfect, consistent driving lap after lap, you might even parise him for his strategic gambles on tires. But from what I've seen, he fades away too easily with just a couple of factors not suiting him perfectly.

The difference between great and legendary could be just that one: a great driver can be the fastets and cleanest around. But a legendary driver will win even when he is not the fastest and cleanest around.

He already won a championship. He needs to face his next challenge now. And that challenge is to improve on the infamous "package" concept. If he can master that, then he will become a legend. If not...well, he will have accomplished as much as Keke Rosberg and even keep that gorgeous girlfriend :D

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I can't see it personally. He is a good driver, but I doubt he'll be multiple champion sadly.

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It's hard to say not really knowing what the Pirelli tires will be like. Button, if I recall properly, has good tire management skills, so that may benefit him. But it may not. I have no idea what kind of tire they plan to produce, or will actually produce, or what Button's real strengths are.

One thing that works against him, I think, is that the new points system rewards winning heavily; consistent points-scorers are going to lose to guys like Vettel who, if they win enough, can easily overcome retirements (as we saw in 2010).

However, I don't think it's unlikely that Button could win a second. Would it take a bit of a down year for Hamilton? I think so; head-to-head, Lewis impresses me a bit more. Still, the teammate who wasn't supposed to win has before and will again, so I don't see why it can't happen at McLaren, and why a proven winner like Button can't repeat what we've already seen him do before. He'll always be underrated because it took him a long time to get it, but you know what, he still got it. I'd rather see a driver mature and finally put it together eventually than never at all. It's super-competitive, but with so many changes being made to the sport (one of the few times change for the sake of change can be good, I think, is when it keeps the top teams and drivers honest), if that can benefit Button, well, he's perfectly capable of winning a title.

Will he? I don't know. He doesn't seem like the kind of guy where that's going to work out for him, but it wouldn't be the first time in sports a champion came out of nowhere and then won the title a second time.

He's a good guy, too, so I'd love to see him get another.

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Of course he can if things fall in place.

None of the drivers who were at the top of the standings last year had a brilliant year. good yes, brilliant no. The best driver on the grid was in a car that gave him no chance of winning the championship. Alonso had an insipid first half of the season and an insipid end to the season, managed to be somewhat less insipid in between. Webber faded. Fettel kid screwed up royally too many times losing a huge number of points. No one stood out, apart from Kubeetza of course. It's not going to take miracles to beat that lot, none of those three has the consistency to hold it together for a season. Webber is too old and not good enough. Fettel kid isn't maturing to that level, possibly still has time. Alonso lacks that level of talent and has mental issues. They're all beatable. Button just needs to have a bit more fire in him, but none of the front runners are vastly better, a couple may be marginally more talented but Button's more level headed and consistent and intelligent.

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No.

Elaborate.

Edit: actually, don't bother. I can feel that biased, unrepentant bile rising up my stomach and into my throat.

Nope. I shall not rise to the bait.

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If Mclaren produced a good car he'd be in the fight, no doubt about it. Jenson in a car which suits his driving style is a formidable opponent for anyone. I just think that when it comes down to the ugly stuff, the psychological warfare, the aggressive overtakes and all that, Lewis would prevail (he has the experience there and the personality too).

Yes. This.

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Of course he can if things fall in place.

None of the drivers who were at the top of the standings last year had a brilliant year. good yes, brilliant no. The best driver on the grid was in a car that gave him no chance of winning the championship. Alonso had an insipid first half of the season and an insipid end to the season, managed to be somewhat less insipid in between. Webber faded. Fettel kid screwed up royally too many times losing a huge number of points. No one stood out, apart from Kubeetza of course. It's not going to take miracles to beat that lot, none of those three has the consistency to hold it together for a season. Webber is too old and not good enough. Fettel kid isn't maturing to that level, possibly still has time. Alonso lacks that level of talent and has mental issues. They're all beatable. Button just needs to have a bit more fire in him, but none of the front runners are vastly better, a couple may be marginally more talented but Button's more level headed and consistent and intelligent.

yes, and no

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Of course he can if things fall in place.

None of the drivers who were at the top of the standings last year had a brilliant year. good yes, brilliant no. The best driver on the grid was in a car that gave him no chance of winning the championship. Alonso had an insipid first half of the season and an insipid end to the season, managed to be somewhat less insipid in between. Webber faded. Fettel kid screwed up royally too many times losing a huge number of points. No one stood out, apart from Kubeetza of course. It's not going to take miracles to beat that lot, none of those three has the consistency to hold it together for a season. Webber is too old and not good enough. Fettel kid isn't maturing to that level, possibly still has time. Alonso lacks that level of talent and has mental issues. They're all beatable. Button just needs to have a bit more fire in him, but none of the front runners are vastly better, a couple may be marginally more talented but Button's more level headed and consistent and intelligent.

This is actually quite insightful. I agree with it completely. The reason we've seen such a close championship the past few years is that we've yet to see a Clark or a Senna or even a Mikey-In-His-Prime driver step up and be completely dominant. All the top drivers are quick as hell, but none of them rises to the 'Oh my God!' level. Even Lewis, whose pure racing heart I adore, has flaws that prevent him from being the next Senna.

We await the coming of........someone.

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I got this idea from Caesar making a joke in the Massa thread.

Now we all know that i'm an absolutely nutty, totally dizzy and completely biased Buttonite. But I will try to be objective and look at it from all angles. My bias shall be left at the door.

Before I can answer this myself, I'd like to hear what you all think. Can Button win the championship again, at McLaren with Hamilton as his team mate?

Discuss.

Ow, come on, Steph - You are not "completely" biased....

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This is actually quite insightful. I agree with it completely. The reason we've seen such a close championship the past few years is that we've yet to see a Clark or a Senna or even a Mikey-In-His-Prime driver step up and be completely dominant. All the top drivers are quick as hell, but none of them rises to the 'Oh my God!' level. Even Lewis, whose pure racing heart I adore, has flaws that prevent him from being the next Senna.

We await the coming of........someone.

We await the coming of........OPRAH!

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Jenson's biggest obstacle to winning another WDC is himself. When the car is driving like a brick, he begins to unravel. When he has it where he wants it, no one out there can live with him. He is that good on his day. Even serial JB knockers give him respect nowadays because he has proved himself worthy. He is probably in the form of his life right now with a finely-tuned racing brain between his ears. Yes, he is more than capable of taking the crown again but do McLaren have the car? Frank Williams once said, when asked when he thought Nigel Mansell might win the WDC: 'When I can build him a car he can't break!'. And, so it was. Ross Brawn built Jenson a car he couldn't fault and he dominated the sport and left them all for dead. He can do it again but it's up to Woking and more importantly, Jenson himself.

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Of course he can if things fall in place.

None of the drivers who were at the top of the standings last year had a brilliant year. good yes, brilliant no. The best driver on the grid was in a car that gave him no chance of winning the championship. Alonso had an insipid first half of the season and an insipid end to the season, managed to be somewhat less insipid in between. Webber faded. Fettel kid screwed up royally too many times losing a huge number of points. No one stood out, apart from Kubeetza of course. It's not going to take miracles to beat that lot, none of those three has the consistency to hold it together for a season. Webber is too old and not good enough. Fettel kid isn't maturing to that level, possibly still has time. Alonso lacks that level of talent and has mental issues. They're all beatable. Button just needs to have a bit more fire in him, but none of the front runners are vastly better, a couple may be marginally more talented but Button's more level headed and consistent and intelligent.

:thbup:

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Yes.

And I know this with my gut, and when has that ever been wrong? Hmmmm? Ooooo...choccy cookie.....

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If Mclaren produced a good car he'd be in the fight, no doubt about it. Jenson in a car which suits his driving style is a formidable opponent for anyone. I just think that when it comes down to the ugly stuff, the psychological warfare, the aggressive overtakes and all that, Lewis would prevail (he has the experience there and the personality too).

:lol:

You're too kind to Lewis! Personally I think Lewis is just faster than Jenson, and almost everyone else too. Jenson is a good driver: he extremely rarely makes driving errors, is fast and talented, a hard but always clean racer and a charming guy. As others have said, next season depends on the tyres and the rules of course, but in the main I expect Lewis to be a shade faster and that will likely be enough. Of course, were Jenson paired with anyone other than Lewis or Nando in a top team, he'd have a good chance of winning the title so it's certainly possible in the future.

so for me there are Kubica, Hamilton, Alonso, Raikkonen and Button in the same class.

--next come vettel webber massa rubens rosberg

Not a bad theory.

This is actually quite insightful. I agree with it completely. The reason we've seen such a close championship the past few years is that we've yet to see a Clark or a Senna or even a Mikey-In-His-Prime driver step up and be completely dominant. All the top drivers are quick as hell, but none of them rises to the 'Oh my God!' level. Even Lewis, whose pure racing heart I adore, has flaws that prevent him from being the next Senna.

Why do you say Lewis can't be the next Senna, Mike? I know Lewis makes a few mistakes, but then so did Senna, afaik.

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Who knows? I tip Hami to win his 2nd wc before him... so is very difficult for me to see jenson winning another wc. let´s wait and see how good is the the new macca.

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Who knows? I tip Hami to win his 2nd wc before him... so is very difficult for me to see jenson winning another wc. let´s wait and see how good is the the new macca.

I predict Lewis will win 5, he is that great :D

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I predict Lewis will win 5, he is that great :D

You also think Kimi is that great.

The prosecution rests, your Honor.

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I predict Lewis will win 5, he is that great :D

How can you be a Hamilton fan and in the same time have pictures of Kimi and Vettel on your post?

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In normal circumstances it's extremely difficult for Button. He could beat Hamiton every now and then but this is going to be a 20-race championship.

If you ask Button what he hopes for 2011 what's the real answer to the question? I'm gonna smash that black guy there and then the rest of the grid?

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How can you be a Hamilton fan and in the same time have pictures of Kimi and Vettel on your post?

Don't start that again...

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We await the coming of........someone.

Why? They're here already. We're watching them become great in front of our eyes. Lewis, Sebastian and Robert.

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