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FIA open to tweaking rear wing rules

By Jonathan Noble Thursday, February 3rd 2011, 09:12 GMT

The FIA is fully open to tweaking Formula 1's moveable rear wing rules to ensure they are a success, after setting out initials plans for a 600-metre overtaking zone at each track.

F1 teams have got down to work with the moveable rear wing technology in this week's Valencia test, but there remains a great deal of uncertainty about how the concept will work when it is actually put into action in the races.

However, AUTOSPORT can reveal that teams have now been informed by the FIA about the plans for the first few races of the season as the sport gets to grip with ensuring it improves the spectacle without making overtaking too easy.

Sources have revealed that the FIA's current plan is for the overtaking zone - where the moveable wing will be made active in races - to be the final 600 metres of a track's main straight.

A driver pursuing a rival will only be able to activate his wing there if he is within one-second of the car ahead of him at a timing zone that will be set-up in the braking area for the corner before that main straight.

The FIA believes that the 600-metre passing zone is the right length to ensure that overtaking is possible – but is also not too easy. Early simulation data suggests that this length of track will result in a speed differential between cars of between 10-12 km/h depending on car design.

Drivers will be also free to use the wing at will during practice and qualifying.

To help Formula 1 fans and television commentators understand the implementation of the rules better, lines will be painted on the track to mark out the overtaking and timing zone.

A single line on the straight will show where the overtaking zone starts, while two lines will be painted at the preceding corner to indicate the one-second time difference distance. This latter line will also serve as a visual back up for the FIA should the official timing transponders fail at any point.

The FIA plans to take a first look at the timing loop and speed data during next week's Jerez test, before a full-scale evaluation of the technology and overtaking zones during the final pre-season test at Bahrain in early March.

These tests will purely be, however, to ensure the FIA systems are working – with teams unlikely to co-operate enough to try out real overtaking moves to see how the moveable wings will react in full-on race conditions.

Should the simulations of car speed in the Bahrain test show that the 600-metre zone is going to make overtaking far too easy, or Bahrain's race is affected by too much passing, then its distance will be shortened – as the FIA is keen to get the right balance of passing from the off.

AUTOSPORT understands the FIA has told teams, however, that its current projection is to use the 600-metre for the first four races of the season before reviewing it for subsequent events.

The zones will be on the start-finish straights in Bahrain, Australia and Malaysia – while in China it will be at the end of the long back-straight.

Lotus technical chief Mike Gascoyne reckons the moveable rear wing success was dependent on the FIA getting the rules right.

"I think we have to be careful in its implementation and I think the governing body has to be willing to change how it is implemented to ensure that it works in the way it is meant to," he told AUTOSPORT.

"If you get a situation like you had in Indy, where they put in the Handford-wing and everyone could pass everyone, you just sat there the whole race trying to be second on the last lap - because then you would win. That was pretty rubbish – so they got rid of it.

"We need to be careful that it is not seen as some great salvation. Very often we have done things like this and they have done more harm than good, so you have to be prepared to tweak it.

"You don't want it to be too artificial, because you can argue some of the greatest drives were with Gilles Villeneuve holding off everybody – and if you say that is never going to happen any more then you will lose some of the most iconic moments of the sport."

Renault team principal Eric Boullier said that teams were happy they had got the rear wing technology working right – and that the only issue now was the FIA's implementation of it.

"The pressure now is on the FIA because the teams are more or less technically ready for this," he told AUTOSPORT. "The FIA needs to fine-tune this system.

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This is just so wrong. If we absolutely must have a waggly wing then just let the drivers get on with it. Stop inventing ever more complicated restrictions on it's use.

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Personally I believe it should have just been done like KERS. Every driver being able to use it for a certain number of seconds per lap, and being able to deploy it whenever they want for however long they want.

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Since I killed off the last thread on the rear wing, I'm gonna start a new one.

So, the FIA have decreed, in all their infinite wisdom, that the rear wing will activate in the last 600m of the main straight.

So this means the cars will be losing rear end grip, exactly when they need it most? OK, so maybe that's a good thing, because then the cars will get skittery, and someone can sneak up the inside, or straight off (cue Malaysia). But it won't overcome the rubber band effect....the car infront will still be on the power exiting the corner before the car behind...so it will look like the car behind is catching up and going for a pass, when it really isn't.

Also, 600m is covered in an F1 car at top speeds (at say 290km/h which would be fairly average except for Monza) in 7.5 secs (or thereabouts)...not much time to get a boost, especially once you consider the math.

If you take the FIA's simulation of an extra 10km/h speed, the same car is now going at 300km/h and covers 600m in 7.2secs....so a 0.3sec gain....

Can a car pass another car in 0.3-seconds? Lets work it out...at 300km/h, the car is travelling 83.3m/sec....so 0.3secs = 25m. The car going 290km/h is travelling at 80m/sec, so 0.3sec = 24m. The difference is 1m. Are F1 cars longer, or shorter than 1m?

The maths doesn't stack up. An F1 car is over 4m long....so you'd need 4x the distance just to pull level. Whilst into a corner this is all you need, so long as you get on the inside....

How many times in the past few years has a quicker car not been able to pass a slower one, whom upon comparing lap times from qually or practise was found to be 0.5secs a lap slower? The words "train" and "Trulli" spring to mind.

This "fix" to the passing problem, is not a fix at all....it can't be....the cars just don't get the disparity in speed needed to make it work.

Change the circuits. It's the only way that is known (from anecdotal historical evidence) to work. These new circuits (especially Abu Dahbi, Bahrain, SIngapore, and Valencia) are so mickey-mouse it's not funny. Anyone that has played F1 2010 will know that. These tracks create single file racing..there is always a corner that you can only ever go through one car at a time....

This circuit problem is not limited to F1 though...case in point is the V8 Supercars circuit in Hamilton....two corners after the start (where cars are still door to door, grille to grille, bumper to bumper) they go down a straight and through a chicance placed exactly 3/4's the way down the straight. This chicance can only be taken one car at a time...so what happens from then on, is that the cars are in single file....no matter how close you get, no matter how much you make the other guy sweat, at the end of the day, the track prohibits the pass by squeezing the cars into a single file. The sad part is, that at the end of the straight, if they were allowed to get to max speed, which they can't because they run out of track, is a corner so nice and wide, that you can make a pass on it, by getting your nose on the other guys front door.

Rant over :D

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Hey you two...I wasn't finished.... :P

How do I bump my second post into second, thus meaning this post would be irrelevant? :blink:

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But again the speed differential is only another 10km/h. So you get up to 310km/h....maybe....and travel 2m more than the guy infront.....unless you are right on his tail, and by that I mean mere centimetres, that 2m is diddly squat. The activation zone, if thats what they are going to have, needs to be the WHOLE length of the straight (which is what the F-duct did) to make any difference at all.

There were not that many passes (if any) of a KERS car on another KERS car in 2009. Yes, it helped for passing non KERS cars, but only because the KERS was used over an entire straight.

The experiment is simple enough to replicate for yourself on a motorway. Go drive your car so you are a car length behind another car in an adjacent lane. Match speeds, then accelerate +10km/h....how far have you travelled to 1) pull level with his/her bumper 2) get a half car overlap (for passing on a corner) 3) get front bumper to front bumper 4) enact a complete pass. To overtake on the open road, you have to increase speeds by 20% to overtake, and then, the distance traveled is still relatively long. A 10km increase on 290km is only a 3% increase.

KERS is greenie bullpoop PR....moveable wings is just....poop.

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For what it's worth I agree, all of these measures are pointless PR stunts on the whole. I feel it may make passing a little easier, but risks will still have to be taken, and skill will still be needed, which is absolutely the way it should be IMO.

I have said it before, and I will repeat it again: Formula 1 fans want high quality racing, not Nascar levels of passing.

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Personally I believe it should have just been done like KERS. Every driver being able to use it for a certain number of seconds per lap, and being able to deploy it whenever they want for however long they want.

That sounds like a good idea, nicely put.

I think even without ARW we'll see more overtaking thanks to KERS and the degrading Pirelli tyres.

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What's the point if you can use it either for attack or defense? :eusa_think:

Instead of becoming a tool to aid attack at the behest of defence, it becomes a tactical tool for the driver to utilise alongside his own skill, it puts more control in the hands of the driver. To be honest, going onto a straight and being able to press a button to give you more speed than the guy in front, and may facilitate a pass, which will look great on camera, but I feel that drivers would be better able to showcase their skills if KERS and the wing flap where under their control.

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What's the point if you can use it either for attack or defense? :eusa_think:

Equally, what's the point in manufacturing overtaking?

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Equally, what's the point in manufacturing overtaking?

Yes, I agree with you, little JHS man. Next, they'll try and call it motor racing.

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Equally, what's the point in manufacturing overtaking?

What else can you do when you've manufactured non-overtaking tracks, aero, engines, tires ?!

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Equally, what's the point in manufacturing overtaking?

I'm against any push-to-pash gadget. I don't even like KERS. Just throttle and brake.

Maybe you didn't realised yet that the new moveable rear wing is for manufacturing overtaking, that's the point. It makes no sense to let the driver use it freely, it would make sense not to have the gadget in the first place. It might be entertaining for a few races but I don't think it will work in the long term. There's little room for innovation, cost cutting and such. There's little room for overtaking, manufacturing it is the only option.

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I'm against anye push-to-pash gadgt. I don't even like KERS. Just throttle and brake.

Maybe you didn't realised yet that the new moveable rear wing is for manufacturing overtaking, that's the point. It makes no sense to let the driver use it freely, it would make sense not to have the gadget in the first place. It might be entertaining for a few races but I don't think it will work in the long term. There's little room for innovation, cost cutting and such. There's little room for overtaking, manufacturing it is the only option.

Push-to-pash, you say? I'll have one of those gadgets....then I could get into the same room as Kristen Bell and.....

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Push-to-pash, you say? I'll have one of those gadgets....then I could get into the same room as Kristen Bell and.....

:laughing:

I have a gadget, it's push2patch. :kicking:

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I maintain that we don't have a 'passing problem' in F1 these days. We have a driver problem. The better drivers manage to pass.

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Push-to-pash, you say? I'll have one of those gadgets....then I could get into the same room as Kristen Bell and.....

I'll finish that for you

.....before you do you have to make sure thai I am already out of that room. :naughty:

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Equally, what's the point in manufacturing overtaking?

My question is, if everybody is going to use it and like KERS everybody is expected to use at the same point and time how can this be helpfull? I know it is design to help overtaking but at the same time any driver can use it to defend his position and that might actually be interesting to watch :eusa_think:

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I'll finish that for you

.....before you do you have to make sure thai I am already out of that room. :naughty:

Don'tcha wanna kiss me :(

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What else can you do when you've manufactured non-overtaking tracks, aero, engines, tires ?!

...and champions...

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Don't take it like that, it's not that I don't wanna kiss you I just ment that I would be with her fisrt. :P

Ha! don't make me laugh....

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I am not sure why some are so caught up on manufactured overtaking as the cars are also designed for overtaking prevention. The cars are designed not only for speed and downforce but also to leave as much dirty air behind as possible. The problem of overtaking over the past years is that challenges can't get close enough due to dirty air. Hopefully the removal of double diffusers will assist with this.

I agree with the thoughts that drivers should be given an allocated number of times to press the movable wing button.

I imagine that a challenger will need to use KERS prior to the straight to close the gap so they can take advantage of the rear wing.

I think that tyre degradation will play the most significant role in overtaking.

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