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Quiet One

Has F1 Lost Its Marbles?

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Ok! Back to subject.Here is despair of Rubens over lost marbles and Vettel trying to find it.

That's a lot of globbles on Rubens tyre....very runny globbles too, so looks like he's running too high a pressure and the tyre is over working...no wonder he's upset...

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And yes, I'm taking a bit of a p**s....obviously THAT amount of globbles has been picked up off piste at a slow speed, as the negative camber has kept the outside of the tyre clean.

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What the hell are globbles? Do you mean globules? 'Globble' sounds like Timo eating his lunch too fast.

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Its the plural of globs....like globs and globs of glupe....get with it man...you have a child!!

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Its the plural of globs....like globs and globs of glupe....get with it man...you have a child!!

But are they globbles or bobbles? Seems a muddle. I'm fuddled. Glupe? I only see poop.

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Luckily, drivers screwed up. That's why we had a good 2010. Had nothing much to do with the cars. If the drivers had been as boringly efficient as the cars, we would have had a season of Bahrains.

Summarizing Andres' point; I think he's saying what I think too; I want to see who can manage tyres, but not bits of rubber laying on the track, effectively restricting choice of line. No idiot is going to drive on them. That's where your show gets ruined; effectively a car's width of usable track.

Yes and yes.

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Well, like I always say, it's inevitable that you have convoluted rules if you want both a good show and innovation. The teams' interests are best served by making their cars difficult to overtake so of course they will do that, if you give them the freedom to innovate. This is like having a capitalist economy but hoping that no entrepreneur will do anything to make him more money than anyone else - you'd need some fancy rules to make that work too!

What aero innovation has there been to beat movable wings (late 60s), ground effects (late 70s in F1, late 60s in Can Am) ?!

Heck Auto Union discovered ground effects in the 30s and killed Rosemeyer with that prototype.

Honestly aero has been going mostly nowhere for ~ 25 to 40 years (excluding adding computers to control the suspensiona and/or spoilers on sportcars).

I want distinct and good looking racecars with equivalent performance, but I don't anymore aero "innovations".

And BTW spec is still crap.

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:lol:

Well, actually we agree pretty much, apart from your ridiculous and offensive final sentence.

You're right that there's not much innovation of any genuine interest in F1 these days... and for a long time. Which is just one more reason to get rid of the teams altogether.

That said, aerodynamics has moved on massively from the 60s. Those guys couldn't even beat a Hispania. But I agree that the F1 contribution (to aerodynamics) hasn't been particularly exciting or useful.

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:lol:

Well, actually we agree pretty much, apart from your ridiculous and offensive final sentence.

You're right that there's not much innovation of any genuine interest in F1 these days... and for a long time. Which is just one more reason to get rid of the teams altogether.

That said, aerodynamics has moved on massively from the 60s. Those guys couldn't even beat a Hispania. But I agree that the F1 contribution (to aerodynamics) hasn't been particularly exciting or useful.

I totally disagree, the F-Duct and EBD where both very interesting pieces of innovation. The problem is not the teams, it's the FIA constantly imposing restrictions to slow the cars down. If aero restriction was allowed unabated, the cars we have now would be extremely aerodynamically advanced, and would probably be able to corner at about 6G

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I totally disagree, the F-Duct and EBD where both very interesting pieces of innovation. The problem is not the teams, it's the FIA constantly imposing restrictions to slow the cars down. If aero restriction was allowed unabated, the cars we have now would be extremely aerodynamically advanced, and would probably be able to corner at about 6G

Then what do you propose would be a safe run-off for cars with such cornering capability? The spectators would be so far away they might as well be at home. We need less aero and more arm twiddling, me thinks.

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:lol:

I tend to agree with Steve, though I suppose interest is all relative and maybe the F-duct and EBD were almost worth bothering with. I also think Virgin's experiment at designing their car entirely on a computer, without windtunnels, is pretty cool.

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I also think Virgin's experiment at designing their car entirely on a computer, without windtunnels, is pretty cool.

Nah, that was stupid. If I designed a woman using a computer, she would look awesome, but her bedroom skills would be well, like a Virgin. Use a piece of paper and a pencil, like Adrian. His Moo Rouge's are quite handy.

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:lol:

Well, actually we agree pretty much, apart from your ridiculous and offensive final sentence.

You're right that there's not much innovation of any genuine interest in F1 these days... and for a long time. Which is just one more reason to get rid of the teams altogether.

That said, aerodynamics has moved on massively from the 60s. Those guys couldn't even beat a Hispania. But I agree that the F1 contribution (to aerodynamics) hasn't been particularly exciting or useful.

Improvements meaning refining to the n-th degree (in the words of Ross Brawn) but nothing new under the sun really.

It's like football tactics, no tactical innovation (just physical improvements) since total football marked the end-point of tactics.

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Then what do you propose would be a safe run-off for cars with such cornering capability? The spectators would be so far away they might as well be at home. We need less aero and more arm twiddling, me thinks.

Why? as much as fans would like it to be, Formula 1 is NOT just about the drivers.

I wasn't necessarily trying to say that is the way F1 should be going, the level of performance the cars have now is about right in terms of a tradeoff between safety and speed, I was merely pointing out that it's not the teams fault that the cars are like they are, the FIA are to blame.

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I totally disagree, the F-Duct and EBD where both very interesting pieces of innovation. The problem is not the teams, it's the FIA constantly imposing restrictions to slow the cars down. If aero restriction was allowed unabated, the cars we have now would be extremely aerodynamically advanced, and would probably be able to corner at about 6G

That's nothing new at all.

Simply moving the rear wing does the same thing and better (late 60s cars or active rides via active suspensions rake angle adjustment).

According to Newey the problem with active suspension-less 94 Williams was the sidepods stalling was uncontrollable.

Blown diffusers were the norm in the late 80s, they just weren't as refined.

There hasn't been any true innovation in aerodynamics for a long long time. Everything is just a rehash.

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Why? as much as fans would like it to be, Formula 1 is NOT just about the drivers.

I wasn't necessarily trying to say that is the way F1 should be going, the level of performance the cars have now is about right in terms of a tradeoff between safety and speed, I was merely pointing out that it's not the teams fault that the cars are like they are, the FIA are to blame.

The teams and FIA are both to blame.

Active suspensions combined with computer controlled movable wings and winglets are the only true solution to the aero issue.

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That's nothing new at all.

Simply moving the rear wing does the same thing and better (late 60s cars or active rides via active suspensions rake angle adjustment).

According to Newey the problem with active suspension-less 94 Williams was the sidepods stalling was uncontrollable.

Blown diffusers were the norm in the late 80s, they just weren't as refined.

There hasn't been any true innovation in aerodynamics for a long long time. Everything is just a rehash.

With the limited range of movement built into the rear wing I can't see it as being as efficient as completely stalling both of it's plains. Besides, a movable wing is not an innovation, it's pretty easy to design. The F-Duct however was a clever solution as it was an example of out of the box thinking. There's nothing clever about sticking an actuator into a wing and moving it up and down in a sport as technically complex as F1.

Besides, that is a williams specific problem, I don't see any evidence that the other teams lost that much from the banning of active suspension.

The teams and FIA are both to blame.

Active suspensions combined with computer controlled movable wings and winglets are the only true solution to the aero issue.

How so? Wasn't active suspension meant to improve the handling of the car rather than it's aero performance? Personally I believe that none of that is the answer, I believe that creating ground effect downforce is the best way to alleviate the aero problem, through the removal of that stupid plank that sits under the car. At the moment, Formula 1 cars are too dependant on generating downforce through their upper body surfaces.

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