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JHS

Bahrain Gp At Risk?

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The loss of any GP is a bother to all involved, irrespective of the nuances of the venue but the loss of life in the kingdom is far worse. I'm extremely disappointed the neither FOM nor the FIA took an earlier lead on this. It should not have been left in the hands of the Crown Prince. He has his own agenda. Nice to hear Bernie is swallowing the £24m+ bill on it anyway. Who knows? Abu Dhabi may be at risk too? Nice to see a Polish GP at some point, [they were talking about Gdansk as a possible venue as far back as 2007] or perhaps a return of the French GP at Paul Ricard. I think Bernie still owns it doesn't he? Ah, the Mistral straightwub.gif

Say what you will about the political regime of Bahrain, but I think it was correct for the Crown Prince to make the decision, or at least make it appear that way (I don't think for one minute that Bernie would have allowed the Grand Prix to go ahead if the Prince deemed it safe, only for us to think otherwise). I think if the Prince did have an agenda, he would have suggested it should have gone ahead. He seems like quite a measured kind of bloke, to me. Maybe it's the Oxford education. Even I seem civilized when I mind my 'p's and 'q's.

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The loss of any GP is a bother to all involved, irrespective of the nuances of the venue but the loss of life in the kingdom is far worse. I'm extremely disappointed the neither FOM nor the FIA took an earlier lead on this.

I agree about the loss of life but there's nothing F1 can do for Bahrain citizens. They're not going to Bahrain, the life of F1 people and fans will be safe.

It should not have been left in the hands of the Crown Prince. He has his own agenda. Nice to hear Bernie is swallowing the £24m+ bill on it anyway.

Most news agencies and TVs have their own agenda. I would like to know he whole truth about all geopolitical problems, what I've read about Bahrain from people living there is not quite the same as things you can watch and hear on TV. Protesters might have their own agenda too, at least some of them. What's sad is innocent people being killed or innocent people being kid. I hope they hava a referendum where the people can express themselves peacefully.

Who knows? Abu Dhabi may be at risk too? Nice to see a Polish GP at some point, [they were talking about Gdansk as a possible venue as far back as 2007] or perhaps a return of the French GP at Paul Ricard. I think Bernie still owns it doesn't he? Ah, the Mistral straightwub.gif

I think Abu Dhabi is ok for the time being. It would make sense to schedule Abu Dhabi early in the season and then try to go to Bahrain if the situation improves. I wish there will be a GP in Jarama circuit. Or at least some tests, but it's won't get FIA approval and maybe they're right. :(

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The loss of any GP is a bother to all involved, irrespective of the nuances of the venue but the loss of life in the kingdom is far worse. I'm extremely disappointed the neither FOM nor the FIA took an earlier lead on this. It should not have been left in the hands of the Crown Prince. He has his own agenda. Nice to hear Bernie is swallowing the £24m+ bill on it anyway. Who knows? Abu Dhabi may be at risk too? Nice to see a Polish GP at some point, [they were talking about Gdansk as a possible venue as far back as 2007] or perhaps a return of the French GP at Paul Ricard. I think Bernie still owns it doesn't he? Ah, the Mistral straightwub.gif

F1 visits multiple murderous regimes every year. And it wouldn't make a darned difference if they did not. You seem to mistake a sport involving rich people driving in circles for a way of making grandiose political statements - you really think the FOM and FIA are going to save the world by cancelling grands prix?

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F1 visits multiple murderous regimes every year. And it wouldn't make a darned difference if they did not. You seem to mistake a sport involving rich people driving in circles for a way of making grandiose political statements - you really think the FOM and FIA are going to save the world by cancelling grands prix?

Multiple? I would hardly describe it quite that way. Bahrain, Abu Dhabi, China and Turkey certainly have human rights issues but I can't think of any other 'murderous regimes' who haunt the calendar. I don't believe I am making a mistake in expecting FOM and the FIA to attach a strict moral criteria when it come to choosing venues for Grand Prix. It's hardly going to destroy the series is it? I am not impressed in the way most people appear to adopt a completely cynical point of view when it comes to matters like this. The organisations that run F1 can't change the World but they can play a small part by letting despotic governments know that their behaviour is totally unacceptable in a civilised society. Just because you feel it would not make a difference is hardly a reason for not bothering at all.

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Multiple? I would hardly describe it quite that way. Bahrain, Abu Dhabi, China and Turkey certainly have human rights issues but I can't think of any other 'murderous regimes' who haunt the calendar. I don't believe I am making a mistake in expecting FOM and the FIA to attach a strict moral criteria when it come to choosing venues for Grand Prix. It's hardly going to destroy the series is it? I am not impressed in the way most people appear to adopt a completely cynical point of view when it comes to matters like this. The organisations that run F1 can't change the World but they can play a small part by letting despotic governments know that their behaviour is totally unacceptable in a civilised society. Just because you feel it would not make a difference is hardly a reason for not bothering at all.

I agree with you but what's the point when most/all democratic countries don't see any issues about human rights in those countries? I wish it was the goverments of democratic countries who lead the defense of Human Rights. We don't care about Human Rights, not as much as we care about business.

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I agree with you but what's the point when most/all democratic countries don't see any issues about human rights in those countries? I wish it was the goverments of democratic countries who lead the defense of Human Rights. We don't care about Human Rights, not as much as we care about business.

How do you propose they defend them then?

Declare war on the regime, invade, and wipe them out?

Talk gibberish at the UN whilst said regime ignores them?

Continue to buy oil off them and send them the occasional letter saying the regime is a little bit naughty?

Only one of those three options will actually get you anywhere, but are you prepared for the consequences?

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How do you propose they defend them then?

What I do not propose is defending the Human Rights from F1 while we, our goverments, our countries... do so little about it.

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So what should they do? F1 means diddly....no point even talking about it in comparison....so the real question is what should your government do about it?

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So what should they do? F1 means diddly....no point even talking about it in comparison....so the real question is what should your government do about it?

They should not allow corporations to stablish their factories in countries that do not have a minimum consideration for workers: wage, rest, holidays, health...

For a start.

That's something one country and its corporations alone cannot afford if they have to compete with others and their corporations.

Then I would demand F1 not to go to those countries.

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So you would be prepared to pay quadruple you do now for a pair of Nike's?

Or pay five times the amount you pay now for petrol?

Utopia has a downside to those at the top of the chain.

If you want third world people to be paid more, then expect to either go without, or pay a whole heap more for the most meaningless piece of materialism you wish to own.

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You're wrong about the pair of junkies. You would not pay quadruple but the ammount Nike considers they can ask for them and make the most money. Petrol might cost about the same or less if we stop buying cheap junkies from 9 to 9. Utopia is soon going to be they way we live today.

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Well I am about a 10 min drive from the actual protesting, and lets be honest it is confined mainly to that one area that has been shown incorrectly called Pearl Square. It is actually a round -about. So the correct name is Pearl Roundabout. And then the Salmaniya medical complex which is very near to there. That's pretty much where the action is. We have had HUGE rallies for the pro government near to us about 300000 + people.

Most people are not even aware of the troubles in that particular area and like myself have continued with normal daily movements simply avoiding that particular area. My sister has to drive past that area in the mornings and has actually said it is very quite not that many people down there.....

So yes the media has reported it to make it seem like there are more areas affected but that's untrue

I'm finding this hard to believe if I'm being honest here. Were you at this rally in person, or did you watch the state run and sponsored television reports? Every regime uses "pro" pieces on TV, be it staged rallies or not letting any "anti" stuff appear anywhere in print, radio or television.

I don't think the unrest is on par with Libya for example, but it certainly is a serious issue. If only one small confined area is where the action is in terms of anti government protesters, why has the GP been canceled then? Why has the rulling royalty started to make some concessions? Letting opposition leaders back into the country, releasing other political detainees, while then arresting more?

I watch the news, but I don't confine myself to any particular new organization. I have not seen a single reference anywhere to pro government mass rallies with 300000+ people. That's an astronomical number. Unless there are 300000+ princes, royal social climbers, hangers on & groupies in Bahrain, it does not sound credible to me.

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You're wrong about the pair of junkies. You would not pay quadruple but the ammount Nike considers they can ask for them and make the most money. Petrol might cost about the same or less if we stop buying cheap junkies from 9 to 9. Utopia is soon going to be they way we live today.

Yeah...quadruple the price, because instead of costing $US10 per shoe, they would now cost $US150 a shoe.

Perhaps the problem is that you are paid too much? (not you personally but those in Western Europe and the westernised world in general)

Whatever it be, the price of freedom is high. Are you prepared to shoulder that? For you it would be financial. For those trying to obtain it, it will be peoples lives. Just imagine what bloodbaths there would be in China if the people were to decide that the $US4 a week and a sack of rice isn't worth the 12 hours labour a day, seven days a week and they were to try to over throw the government. Then consider the prices of your cars, your shoes, your clothes, your knives and forks, your lightbulbs, your washing machines...all going up in price so the workers can be paid over 100x more than what they get paid now, and to have this thing called freedom.

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Freemen vs. slaves, who win? We should get ready for slavery if we're going to compete against China.

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Or just all be poor beggars with no jobs. At least in the manufacturing industries. Time to become a paper shuffler...

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Multiple? I would hardly describe it quite that way. Bahrain, Abu Dhabi, China and Turkey certainly have human rights issues but I can't think of any other 'murderous regimes' who haunt the calendar. I don't believe I am making a mistake in expecting FOM and the FIA to attach a strict moral criteria when it come to choosing venues for Grand Prix.

Wow you manage to see clear shades of black and white where none exist. How about India? While the central regime is relatively benign, there are plenty of human rights abuses, extra judicial killings etc in India. The United States - surely you don't discriminate between countries that kill their own people and ones that kill foreigners, people are people aren't they? What about Singapore, a very efficient but clearly undemocratic regime. Malaysia?

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Sorry, I think like Alex. And I can assure you people aren't paid much here... but while Chinese guys work for $4 and a bag of rice, they don't work much (I was gonna say "at all", but I bet Alex does work xDD) and get paid more. Here's hoping that a more democratic world would become fairer and make everyone work for what they want. There has to be someone doing the dirty work, but why based on nationality or political regime? Why not based on merits? Ok, sorry about Utopia... but my country got out of the third world only recently and it's close to me...

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Sorry, I think like Alex. And I can assure you people aren't paid much here... but while Chinese guys work for $4 and a bag of rice, they don't work much (1) (I was gonna say "at all", but I bet Alex does work xDD) and get paid more. Here's hoping that a more democratic world would become fairer and make everyone work for what they want. There has to be someone doing the dirty work (2), but why based on nationality or political regime? Why not based on merits? Ok, sorry about Utopia... but my country got out of the third world only recently and it's close to me...

(1) Aye? You ever been to Chinese provinces? I think that statement is a little bit off the mark.

(2) And therein lies the conundrum. So easy for people to sit in their nicely appointed homes with internet connections and the free time to watch formula 1, and then say how bad it is of the world that some people have to shed blood for a bit of democracy, and say people should do this or that and boycott countries because of this or that, when they haven't the first clue of what is going on, nor take into consideration that their own wealth and freedoms exist because there are other people in the world that are "doing the dirty work". If they are that concerned, then they should boycot their Nikes, their Giant bicycles, their lightbulbs in their cars, their clothes, their toys, their cellphones......this list could go on forever.

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So easy for people to sit in their nicely appointed homes with internet connections and the free time to watch formula 1, and then say how bad it is of the world that some people have to shed blood for a bit of democracy, and say people should do this or that and boycott countries because of this or that, when they haven't the first clue of what is going on, nor take into consideration that their own wealth and freedoms exist because there are other people in the world that are "doing the dirty work". If they are that concerned, then they should boycot their Nikes, their Giant bicycles, their lightbulbs in their cars, their clothes, their toys, their cellphones......this list could go on forever.

I partly agree with you but...

Our wealth? For how long? Are our children, or we ourselves in our elder age, going to enjoy that same wealth? No. China is doing the dirty work, dumping. Many companies are closing down or moving factories to developing countries, how long can we afford that? I'm not talking about freedom or democracy in those countries, I'm talking about economy all the time. Many other developing countries are going the slavery path because they have to compete against China.

We're ****ed anyway.

About the boycott, I do my best.

Edit: a lot of mistakes, plenty remain

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Sorry Handy, I wasn't talking about Chinese workers, I was talking about Spain's appalling productivity numbers. My fault for phrasing it badly.

Boycotting comes naturally to me, I don't have the money to get Nikes even those made with "slave" labour. And I still can't afford to do much on my own, but hopefully one day I will and then we'll talk as equals. I do have some strong beliefs (and I'm not saying they can't change as I get older), but trying to look at it from your point of view I think that it's one thing to exploit countries' resources and people and almost the same but a tad more humane thing to allow them to eat a little so we can keep up with the exploiting. Having interests is fine, but turning a blind eye every time something horrible is happening... what can I say, did we ever consider the population of Egypt, Libia, Tunez.... did we even admit they existed and were to be cared for? I know I didn't care because no one ever pointed it out to me, but thankfully I still have some time to change my ways.

If you think I'm hypocritical, that's fine. I'll try to think that it's my chance to change my way of thinking and that way I can become not-so-hypocritical in the future.

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Not saying anyone is hypocritical...just saying the problem is much larger than many wish to even begin to comprehend, and to point out that their own lifestyle is affected by others half a world away.

Personally, I feel it is up to the people of the land to evoke change in their land, and this is what we are seeing. It's occurred for millenia through different cultures at different times, though is almost always when education and awareness of the outside world (pastures greener) do the populace stand up to the overlords.

Bahrain will not capitulate into civil war. Bahrain want to be a part of western society, and they will not wish to ruin their standing globally. The royal family want to hold on, but the days of monarchy are almost over, pretty much wherever you look. Heck, who gives a flying about Elizabeth or Charles? Will's and Kate's wedding is just a chance to sell cheap Chinese made schmuck memorabilia....

Libya however is another kettle of fish...Gadaffi couldn't give two flying hoots about the west...he detests the US so he really couldn't give a rats if he peeves them off....so he will do everything he can to stay in power.

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