HandyNZL 1 Report post Posted March 2, 2011 Doesn't anyone else get tired of the changes "they" keep introducing? I know F1 is engineering at its best, a showcase for technology and the pinnacle of motorsport but what I'm trying to say is let the guys create and stop changing the rules to block innovation. It doesn't make sense to me. We've got a grid with 5 champions. The closest racing we've had this side of Schumacher's dominance. The rules were changed (I believe) because people wanted to see close racing. Or somebody challenge Michael. We've done that now. I don't mind re-fuelling (bring it back), and tyre-stops. It makes a better race in my view. If they must change again, have the driver call their own stops. Give back a bit of control. They're the ones on the racetrack. The car does most of the work as do the team behind the scenes in the pit lane. Let the driver make the decisions. We just may see Vettel mess up whilst Sutil has the perfect race. (and that's not to say I want to see Vettel mess up. Well just a bit!) Pfft...silly girls still not understanding a mans world... With my sleepy droopy eyelids, I am going to put my FIA/FOTA/Fan hat on (it's a hat with a feather in it...I call it macaroni): Changes: Over the past decade the majority of the changes brought in have been on safety grounds with the ultimate goal of slowing down the cars. However, no matter what the change is, the team engineers are always going to be smarter than theoretical blue-sky engineers that work for the FIA as it is only they whom know exactly how their cars work. The changes brought in from year to year are a mere hindrance and whilst from a fans perspective seem over the top, it is just another thing for which a solution needs to be found, and we engineers like to find solutions to silly little rules....give us enough time and we will fit a square peg into a round hole. So the teams actually don't mind that much...the stimulus remains in the team to create the best they can. Innovation: I touched on this earlier in another thread, but I will expand on it more here. First off, I will ask, what is innovation? Some, especially the old hacks, seem to think innovation means some breakthrough suspension that has never been used before...but therein lies the problem - every form of suspension, which is basically just a pile of linkages and levers put together in a different manner, has been used before. DOF likes to harp on about "they had movable wings in the 60's" or this or that "was there in the 60's"...this is true...and the majority of those renditions bear little to today's incarnations. Through the early part of last century, they started off with fixed axle beams and leaf springs....then someone thought they could run the leaf spring trans-axially, then someone came up with trailing arms, then along came the MacPherson strut, then along came Colin Chapman and he tweaked the strut a little, then along came parallel linkages, then the parallel linkages were twiddled with to be asymetrically fitted to the cars, shocks were outboard, then inboard, then actuated by secondary rockers....phew...thats a lot of technical advancement, but in the last 30 years, the only real advancement has been outboard springs with direct actuation, coming inboard and being actuated by rockers (firstly pull rod, and then push rod, and now lately back to pull rod). That's THIRTY years of suspension stagnation in terms of innovation....but in terms of evolution there has been a lot...in other words, there is more going on under the skin than you realise. (voda)F(one)-ducts: Now this was a genuine innovation by McLaren. Their rendition was fully incorporated into the chassis, which is an homologated item (can't be changed), and meant Lewis and Jense didn't have to take their hands off the steering wheel to actuate. The problem for everyone else, was that any ducting had to be attached to the body work and not the tub. Hence the drivers had to actuate the blowhole by removing their hand from the wheel - a not too good thing for people to be doing at 300km/h. So the banning of this was on that oft over used "safety" clause. Had it not been banned, then everyone apart from HRT would have incorporated the duct into the tub, and the driver could use his knee to actuate it, as did McLaren. So in my view, this was a silly move by the FIA. Especially when they have replaced it with something that does the same thing but mechanically. The aerodynamic solution, to me as an engineer, was far more elegant. Keep is simple, stupid. Tyres: I don't think Steph was meaning "changes" also meant the change to Pirelli's...but since it's in my thread about tyre induced pitstops (which means not strategy induced, which is what you have with durable, predictable tyres and refuelling) then I guess I will comment. Pirelli stated that they would not produce a tyre as durable as Bridgestone. That in my mind is a good thing, and I think they will ultimately get a tyre that lasts with predictable wear for 20 laps or so (as is their aim). At present the are making prototypes. A tyre is a very complicated thing even at the easy end of the spectrum (road tyres), let alone one that can withstand the environments of Formula 1. Bear in mind that they have been using the '09 Toyota as a test car, a car that was reasonable at best, and was more than likely not producing the amount of downforce as the cars are now. In simple, the more downforce a car produces, the more work the tyre has to do, therefore the harder the compound must be to make them durable (road tyres work for a long time because they are hard and have diddly force on them). Pirelli is at the point of trying to get their tyres to catch up with the jump in downforce from the '09 cars to to '11 cars. They will get there, and the teams will begin to understand them better, and depending on the resources Pirelli are willing to put into it, the tyres could be every bit as reliable and durable as Bridgestones by Monaco. Do I want that? No. I'd rather a tyre that is somewhat predictable, but ultimately, not able to last 99% of the race distance. The Shoe Effect: The only rule I know of that was changed to offset Ferrari/Schumacher dominance was the points system. The point being that more drivers would mathematically be in the title hunt for longer. Which was true. But had he not retired, I doubt that Hamilton would be a one time champ, and Button certainly wouldn't be either, and I think this year would have been between Schu and Vettel. Why do I say this? Firstly, the Ferrari was always in the hunt in 08 and 09...Kimi won the title for them on 07, and Massa almost did in 08....I can't see how Michael would have let either title slip out of his grasp. And Button would never have even been in a championship contender, as Brawn would have still been at Ferrari. So all in all, the point system change would most likely not have altered the dominance shown by the Ferrari/Schumacher alliance. Only Michael stopped his dominance. Changing Again: Not sure what you mean here Madame Clarcopopposis.....refer "Tyres" above if you mean that they have to change the tyres...refer Jensen Ackles bottom if you mean something entirely different. As for the driver having to call the shots....ditch the car radio's. That'll sort them. But then, wouldn't that be changing the rules....again? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HandyNZL 1 Report post Posted March 2, 2011 Hey, you're whinging!!! I bet Alonso works 16 h every day and you don't see him on an internet forum sharing his sorrow. I was just meaning, in my tired state, I don't think I could use the fact I am tired as an excuse for not being able to work out what the heck he meant...unlike Alonso who would have bleated and cried all night long... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yurp 0 Report post Posted March 2, 2011 Why bother with the race at all? Just line the drivers up and tell them one by one who has not won, with at least thirty seconds of pregnant pause between each announcement. Every other programme on British TV works to that format. It pulls in untold numbers of highly intelligent viewers. You forgot the phone voting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Caesar 0 Report post Posted March 2, 2011 I have read this, and re read this and even though I know I am tired having worked two 16-hour days and had about 4 hrs sleep, I still struggle to comprehend where you are going with this, and how this has anything to do with pitstops. I was referring on Kopite Girls question "Doesn't anyone else get tired of the changes "they" keep introducing? " In the same time Bernie mentioned his new idea about artificial rain button. When it rains you go to pit-stop. And i like AC/DC.Probably Charlie and Bernie do too, probably they like "Highway to hell" the most. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Argento Reloaded 1 Report post Posted March 2, 2011 After read carefully the press and found Vettel, Sutil, Trulli, Alonso complain about tyre degradation and realise the teams will have only a limit number of tyre sets for the entire weekend I tend to agree with the drivers. The final result seems to be uncertain. Let´s wait and see... what wll HandyNZL fins to smash Nando! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HandyNZL 1 Report post Posted March 2, 2011 My intellect, perhaps? He does leave himself open to ridicule quite often...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kopite Girl 0 Report post Posted March 2, 2011 Hey, intellectual boy. I know what I meant, with your FOM head on talk. Girl in a mans world? Babe, i'm all woman. Believe it. (its kopite 'girl' cause woman don't sound too good!) so Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jem of the Shire 0 Report post Posted March 3, 2011 Hey, intellectual boy. I know what I meant, with your FOM head on talk. Girl in a mans world? Babe, i'm all woman. Believe it. (its kopite 'girl' cause woman don't sound too good!) so Is kopite referring to you being a fan of the 'mighty' liverpool? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HandyNZL 1 Report post Posted March 3, 2011 Pfft..who cares about 22 guys running round after a little round white ball? Bunch of girl's blouses. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jem of the Shire 0 Report post Posted March 3, 2011 Pfft..who cares about 22 guys running round after a little round white ball? Bunch of girl's blouses. Are you going to argue that more people care about rugby? Actually now is a good time to care about rugby cos england are looking good to reclaim the world cup this year! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dribbler 6 Report post Posted March 3, 2011 Are you going to argue that more people care about rugby? Rugby = quality music Football = Westlife Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Argento Reloaded 1 Report post Posted March 3, 2011 Hey guys is difficult to find people living in country with both -rugby and football- at a good level. New Zealand? The best in -ice-chest-rugby but almost the worst in football; UK? a good mix but def better in rugby; France maybe. The other example is Argentina: 3rd current in rugby world cup -let me enjoy till the next fail!- and good in football too! So is logical some people born in those 1 sports countries smash the sports they will never understand and play! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Argento Reloaded 1 Report post Posted March 3, 2011 And what about Bernie´s fake rain induced pitstops? Maybe he will make rain in half the track and run WRX cars! Idiot! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AleHop 0 Report post Posted March 3, 2011 And what about Bernie´s fake rain induced pitstops? Maybe he will make rain in half the track and run WRX cars! Idiot! It's Alonso's fault. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HandyNZL 1 Report post Posted March 3, 2011 Hey guys is difficult to find people living in country with both -rugby and football- at a good level. New Zealand? The best in -ice-chest-rugby but almost the worst in football; UK? a good mix but def better in rugby; France maybe. The other example is Argentina: 3rd current in rugby world cup -let me enjoy till the next fail!- and good in football too! So is logical some people born in those 1 sports countries smash the sports they will never understand and play! All Blacks lose one game (usually when it matters most) The All Whites (the soccer boys) were the only unbeaten team at the World Cup The Kiwis are the World Champs and the Four-Nations Champs Our Basketball boys, the Tall Blacks were 4th at the World Cup, about the same time as your Puma's got third, so if you're going to hold them up as a beacon of light I can use the Tall Blacks (BTW Los Pumas will get thumped when they join the Quad Nations) And the Black Caps suck. Not bad for a population the size of most other nations cities. So there. :P Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HandyNZL 1 Report post Posted March 3, 2011 It's Alonso's fault. Of course! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kopite Girl 0 Report post Posted March 3, 2011 Is kopite referring to you being a fan of the 'mighty' liverpool? You weren't born yesterday, were you Bristol Boy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KoolMonkey 0 Report post Posted March 4, 2011 All Blacks lose one game (usually when it matters most) The All Whites (the soccer boys) were the only unbeaten team at the World Cup The Kiwis are the World Champs and the Four-Nations Champs Our Basketball boys, the Tall Blacks were 4th at the World Cup, about the same time as your Puma's got third, so if you're going to hold them up as a beacon of light I can use the Tall Blacks (BTW Los Pumas will get thumped when they join the Quad Nations) And the Black Caps suck. Not bad for a population the size of most other nations cities. So there. :P Sports psychologists should be all over that one. It's so true. The ABs can dominate like no other for years on end, then when it matters the most, usually and pretty much every single time at the World Cup, they get smashed by France, or a team they have pasted for years. Maybe it's because Kiwi's are so passionate about Rugby, but I think it's a mental toughness issue. The pressure is greater during those times, and in all honesty it doesn't help that they do smash every other team constantly. That breads lethargy and arrogance. I'm not sure if that's whats happened to them, but there is something in their dna I think to just fall apart when it matters the most. The aussies on the other hand can plod along getting beaten by the ABs for years, then suddenly just pull it together and win the big games. Very strange. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Caesar 0 Report post Posted March 4, 2011 i think that we have lost Pirelli's somewhere in this thread, or they have just worn out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted March 4, 2011 Hey guys is difficult to find people living in country with both -rugby and football- at a good level. New Zealand? The best in -ice-chest-rugby but almost the worst in football; UK? a good mix but def better in rugby; France maybe. The other example is Argentina: 3rd current in rugby world cup -let me enjoy till the next fail!- and good in football too! So is logical some people born in those 1 sports countries smash the sports they will never understand and play! I would'nt say definately better at rugby, but agree that France serves a good mix with both rugby and soccer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted March 4, 2011 Rain button will do miracle for F1 races. Just imagine Australian GP - artificial lightning strikes above race track during the race start, while you can hear AC/DC's "Thunderstruck" playing in background, and then camera zooms on Charlie Whitting's shaking rheumatic finger on rain button. When he will push it ? That is the future of F1! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jem of the Shire 0 Report post Posted March 4, 2011 You weren't born yesterday, were you Bristol Boy Hey I'm blonde ok, which means I'm allowed to get away with just about anything and blame it on me being dense. We tend to ignore football in these parts because even though we have 2 teams in Bristol, they're both an embarrassment to the region. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
