Quiet One

Awwww

19 posts in this topic


Can't open it.

The web browser crashes every time I try to open it.

Is it worth reading?

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Ok, I found a direct link to the piece of news and I actually like what Button says. He talks freely, no BS, no PC, just his feelings and he might be partially right about Ferrari pitting Massa. Probably he was pitting a lap later anyway but it felt a bit suspicious that Massa pitted. Not that it would have made a difference for him as it was going to end with a drive through like Alonso's move on Kubica in Silverstone?

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Personally I think what Ferrari did is irrelevant. The issue is that Mclaren made an error to not give the position back (more a Mclaren error than a Jenson error because that is a situation where the team should obviously intervene and offer guidance, as they have more information). It's well established that gaining advantage by running off the track is not allowed, after all. So, regardless of whether Ferrari pitted Massa tactically or not, that is their right and they do not owe any favours to Mclaren or their drivers. If you can gain an advantage from another's mistake, then good for you. A lot of sport is about capitalising on the mistakes of others so I don't see any issue with Ferrari in this instance (which is of course not to say that I don't think Ferrari are the biggest dirtiest cheats in F1 and all of their fans are utterly terrible people :P).

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Personally I think what Ferrari did is irrelevant. The issue is that Mclaren made an error to not give the position back (more a Mclaren error than a Jenson error because that is a situation where the team should obviously intervene and offer guidance, as they have more information). It's well established that gaining advantage by running off the track is not allowed, after all. So, regardless of whether Ferrari pitted Massa tactically or not, that is their right and they do not owe any favours to Mclaren or their drivers. If you can gain an advantage from another's mistake, then good for you. A lot of sport is about capitalising on the mistakes of others so I don't see any issue with Ferrari in this instance (which is of course not to say that I don't think Ferrari are the biggest dirtiest cheats in F1 and all of their fans are utterly terrible people :P).

Yeah I agree. I think i remember hearing Button say on the radio that he was already ahead of Massa when he went off,obviously he sees it from his point of view and it's the team's responsability to tell him that he has to give Massa his position back.

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Well, my feeling is (if I were a steward) that if the driver who might have been passed illegally decides to pit right after, than the penalt/instruction to let him pass become null and void and the driver who passed gets a pass (pun intended). That's not what regs say, but my way makes more sense.

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I agree with you, Piotr.

You can make the mistaken overtake right before the pit-lane entrance and what are you supposed to do if the other pits right there?

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http://www.totalf1.c...handed_tactics/

Should I really add anything else?

I just read the article.

Actually it's just another piece of crap "journalism" - sensationalist non-story.

Button's actual quotes accuse nothing sinister in Ferrari's tactics at all.

Once again we're left with an attention seeking headline with no substance behind it.

'Button hints at Ferrari's underhand tactics' - no he doesn't.

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I do feel for Button on this. But he really should have ceded the position right away. Think of it this way, if he had let Massa pass him again, he's lost what? 2-3 secs, not the 20+ secs of a drive though. He didn't need his team to radio to move over, he should have had enough experience to know that if he was in the clear great, race on, but if not the penalty would not be worth it. On the other hand, no surprise Ferrari moved Alonso ahead of Massa, then pitted Massa. For once I'd like to see Charlie actually look at what's happened with an eye other than black & white. That was about as convoluted as I've ever seen, yet they passed down a judgment very quickly indeed. Past years they've taken 10-15 laps to decide what to do with far simpler infringements. While I understand there's no smoking gun concerning Ferrari's involvement and what looked like to me anyway, obvious underhand or unsporting tactics, it sure walked like a duck, and sounded like one too, even if the duck in question was painted red.

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I just read the article.

Actually it's just another piece of crap "journalism" - sensationalist non-story.

Button's actual quotes accuse nothing sinister in Ferrari's tactics at all.

Once again we're left with an attention seeking headline with no substance behind it.

'Button hints at Ferrari's underhand tactics' - no he doesn't.

Ahhh young padawan, you grasped it!

No, not that you perv!

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PlanetF1? Really? I would rather read an F1 site run by maure, Gropeclaw the Hopeless and all the Kimi fans.

Mclaren stuffed up by giving Button the hope that there would be no penalty. He sould have just let Massa through, with pit stops coming up it wouldn't make much different. Stupid Mclaren sscrew up they were probably busy focusing on their goldenboy.

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I don't mind checking out PlanetF1's teammates vs review, and also star of the race. Then I can chuck something at the screen and tell them to f'off for getting it so horribly wrong lol.

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I agree with you both. But Planet F1 provides us with Schumi's secret diaries which is the finest piece of F1 humor, period.

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McLaren error. Button error. Ferrari error (to keep Massa!). Unless they fixed it calling Felipe!. Jense I´ll listen to Cry baby / Janis Joplin in your honour!

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I'm sure McLaren would have done the exact same thing as what Ferrari did if they were in that position.

Of course, Button could have avoided all this by just giving the place back straight away.

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Oh man. Why bother?

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8a0sg2s7Ka0

It was neither Button nor Mclaren's fault. Once Button had made the pass he was stuffed. The cars were too close so if he had tried to let Massa through Alonso would have got through too. Alonso overtook Massa immediately afterwards anyway so the damage had already been done.

Bad luck

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Well, Alonso passed Massa, because Massa made a mistake defending against Button. How about a corollary to "my" rule? "If the car passed illegally is then passed legally by another car within (5 seconds, a turn, etc) of the illegal pass, then the car that committed an illegal pass does NOT have to give up position." Ha! Get that, Bernie! But that's just too logical for the FIA...

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