Still The Bestest Strongest Grid Of All Time

[cavallino 2]

It has been suggested often of late, especially last year that the current grid of drivers is simply the best ever. The question to ask is are they really so incredible if the likes of Petrov and Perez can jump in with seemingly incredible performances? If these drivers are the best of all time, then even the most incredible rookie must find it pretty hard to match them yet they seem to have done extraordinarily well.

We can start a discussion now, and come back to it once Heidfeld finds his footing and Sauber's real performance becomes clearer.

[Caesar 0]

It has been suggested often of late, especially last year that the current grid of drivers is simply the best ever. The question to ask is are they really so incredible if the likes of Petrov and Perez can jump in with seemingly incredible performances? If these drivers are the best of all time, then even the most incredible rookie must find it pretty hard to match them yet they seem to have done extraordinarily well.

We can start a discussion now, and come back to it once Heidfeld finds his footing and Sauber's real performance becomes clearer.

petrov's race was just holding to team strategy + good start, and with a bit of luck, just cruising around,unobstructed by anyone. we saw petrov last year, make your conclusions from last season races. this was just one race at the begining of the season. perez is probably in the same class. don't understand why do you make so much out of it.

[Kopite Girl 0]

I can see your point, and clearly a good point to make and a good discussion to start.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here. Heidi won't find his feet. He simply isn't good enough. It would have been a better prospect to invite Ralf Schumacher back to the sport. If by some miracle chance that Heidi does improve, and improve a lot, then I will make it a point to publicly acknowledge I was wrong.

These youngster's have more opportunity to get into the sport. To learn the training regime. They've spared no expense to get into F1. We haven't seen any really talented rookies since Hamilton and Vettel made their debuts.

Its only the first race of the season that's passed. Petrov has a fairly decent car under him, so its natural that we'll see a lot more. F1 is now 95% car and team, 5% driver. The "big guns" have still got the whole season to fight. We'll see as we come further in who fades and who keeps the momentum and who downright plain gives us all a "wtf happened there?" moment.

Its F1 baby. Things change faster than the car's acceleration rate.

[Rainmaster 7]

Well it is of course impossible to really know how good the grid is because the reference for comparison is previous grids, and they obviously don't exist alongside each other, in the same cars, tracks, etc. I certainly doubt the grid is any worse though considering current drivers are, in most ways, more prepared than ever and have to fight extremely hard to get into the sport. The base level of talent of a driver probably hasn't changed all that much at all for a long time, but they are just filtered out better and more prepared, basically.

Also, I don't really think Petrov's performance can be used to infer anything about the grid strength, considering Heidfeld (a driver who many would say is average or worse, although I disagree until we see a trend) had a terrible weekend. So we don't know if Petrov's performance was that good, relatively speaking (we only know what he achieved, not what a known quantity could have achieved). Plus, he has had a year of experience and it isn't massively unusual for a driver to start performing much better in their second year in any era, afaik.

As for Perez, no idea how he performed so well so soon. Probably what Caesar mentioned, and the fact it isn't uncommon for good or great drivers to score points in their first Grand Prix. Or maybe people may have been so focussed on Kobayashi's overtaking abilities they overlooked his weaknesses in other areas, such as race pace or the ability to manage tyres.

Either way, the only thing I would say with any confidence is that the field certainly isn't any weaker than any others, overall.

[AleHop 0]

Would you expect the best Schumacher today being much faster than all the rest of world champions?

The cars are all very similar, the tyres are the same for everyone, drivers are all very well trained athletes... Where would you say a great legend was going to find his extra tenths nowadays?

Yes, current grid of drivers are simply the best ever but cars are more and more important every season, so depending on what you're looking for in F1 you can be happier and happier or sadder and sadder.

And yes, rookies are the best ever too.

[Caesar 0]

it isn't F1, it is Star Wars (from f1technical forum)

[Ikyrotz 0]

it isn't F1, it is Star Wars (from f1technical forum)

and... is this Kimi or Chewbacca?

[BradSpeedMan 6]

it isn't F1, it is Star Wars (from f1technical forum)

[Max Mosley 2]

Very good.

On the topic, it's a good point Cav makes, as always. I think Petrov and Perez's team mates are relatively unknown quantities themselves. But it has to be said, a lot of talented rookies have come through lately, or they've appeared to, anyway.

[yurp 0]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here. Heidi won't find his feet. He simply isn't good enough. It would have been a better prospect to invite Ralf Schumacher back to the sport. If by some miracle chance that Heidi does improve, and improve a lot, then I will make it a point to publicly acknowledge I was wrong.

I've been standing on that limb for 10 years now. It hasn't broken yet. In fact, you should feel pretty damn safe with your conjecture that Heidfeld's crap...

He is.

He should never have been in F1 and how he keeps sneaking back in escapes me.

[yurp 0]

Further indication of Heidfeld unrelenting averageness...

12 seasons in F1.

1 pole position.

0 wins.

Finished the season in 20th, 8th, 10th, 14th, 18th, 11th, 9th, 5th, 6th, 13th, 18th, 12th - (average 12th)

Crap.

[AleHop 0]

I've been standing on that limb for 10 years now. It hasn't broken yet. In fact, you should feel pretty damn safe with your conjecture that Heidfeld's crap...

He is.

He should never have been in F1 and how he keeps sneaking back in escapes me.

Further indication of Heidfeld unrelenting averageness...

12 seasons in F1.

1 pole position.

0 wins.

Finished the season in 20th, 8th, 10th, 14th, 18th, 11th, 9th, 5th, 6th, 13th, 18th, 12th - (average 12th)

Crap.

He's a consistent #2.5 driver which is a positive thing for the business, not from the fans point of view.

[dribbler 6]

Since the end of Michael Schumacher's reign there have been more opportunities for a greater number of drivers to become world champion. This has been accentuated by the differing levels of team domination through this time period. As a consequence, it's no surprise to find such a high number of champions on the grid, thus creating the perception that we are in some sort of super era.

Whilst the quality is no doubt high, I don't see it being any better than any other time period. It's a subjective measurement anyway.

[Max Mosley 2]

Further indication of Heidfeld unrelenting averageness...

12 seasons in F1.

1 pole position.

0 wins.

Finished the season in 20th, 8th, 10th, 14th, 18th, 11th, 9th, 5th, 6th, 13th, 18th, 12th - (average 12th)

Crap.

Yes, I laughed during the race when one of our commentators said something like "hmm strange to see Nick so far down - he's proven he's a talented driver, after all, he's got 8 second places to his name."

[dribbler 6]

Yes, I laughed during the race when one of our commentators said something like "hmm strange to see Nick so far down - he's proven he's a talented driver, after all, he's got 8 second places to his name."

Brundle said on twitter that his plane got diverted and had to land at Perth due to a sick passenger. I asked him if the passenger was Heidfeld. He replied;

"that made me laugh. Actually team boss Eric Bouiller was on same flight + showed me picture Heidfeld's heavily damaged race car"

No excuse for qualifying like a snail.....

[Max Mosley 2]

Awesome! It seems to be the Martin Brundle show this year. He must have very fit vocal chords.

[Quiet One 15]

On Nick: he has the record of most starts without a win. Definitely not a guy you would WANT to bring back to F1. But when the alternatives you had were a Petrov that, impressive as he was in many stances last year was also a guy we saw most times in slow motions replays of his accidents than showing his skills and coupling him with yet another guy like him, having a regur driver is not a bad idea. Obviously Team Poochie was not aiming to have a new Kubicca with Nick Heidfeld. The irony is on Dr.Mario Gladly enough, Petrov has shown a 2nd race in a row in perfect condition. Worringly enough, NH was not even the regular mediocre racer he used to be.

On the grid: It IS a good grid. As Steve said, the post Schumi era brought more drivers into the light that you could have in a 2004 season, for example which was "Schumi and the Nineteen Dwarves". But let's not go to another extreme and start saying "Oh, but in the old ages you had Prost, Senna, Hunt, Fangio" and start mixing whatever we want as if they all raced together. Or bring back guys like Alessi, Belof et al, who were good, but not better than, for example, Kubica. Many years with big names were plenty of useless drivers. What is different from many years is that, since at least 10 to 15 years ago, these are the first times when you can see talented drivers through all the field and many interesting battles as well. No more Schumi, Mikka battling and Yoong crashing as the only choices

[yurp 0]

On Nick: he has the record of most starts without a win. Definitely not a guy you would WANT to bring back to F1. But when the alternatives you had were a Petrov that, impressive as he was in many stances last year was also a guy we saw most times in slow motions replays of his accidents than showing his skills and coupling him with yet another guy like him, having a regur driver is not a bad idea. Obviously Team Poochie was not aiming to have a new Kubicca with Nick Heidfeld. The irony is on Dr.Mario Gladly enough, Petrov has shown a 2nd race in a row in perfect condition. Worringly enough, NH was not even the regular mediocre racer he used to be.

Hang on.

Petrov only retired from 5 races in his debut season - not all that much considering...

in their first seasons in F1...

Kobayashi retired from 8 races.

Raikkonen retired from 7 races.

Alonso retired from 8 races.

and Senna (yes Ayrton) retired from 8 too.

and a lot of those retirements were crashes too.

Also - of the 15 races Petrov's finished in F1 his average finish is 8th position.

[Quiet One 15]

Hang on.

Petrov only retired from 5 races in his debut season - not all that much considering...

in their first seasons in F1...

Kobayashi retired from 8 races.

Raikkonen retired from 7 races.

Alonso retired from 8 races.

and Senna (yes Ayrton) retired from 8 too.

and a lot of those retirements were crashes too.

Also - of the 15 races Petrov's finished in F1 his average finish is 8th position.

Ok, it is impossible to transmit the exact nuance I want to give on my opinion about Petrov. Either I leave the impression he is a total nulity or I give the impression he is the new Ayrton. Wel, he is neither. I said last season he was one of the evelations for me and I was thoroughly impressed. But his crashes were spectacular and made some silly moves too. And yes, he was a rookie and yes he was no match to Kubica and yes he was fast and yes he beat Nando fair and square and...

Well, in short: I like the guy, I hope he can really kick NH's a## and all that. But he is still a rookie and in this day and age, with limited testing you can also be expected to have some fear about his consistency through all the season.

[Jenson_Rules 0]

Petrov is ok, nothing special!

[yurp 0]

Ok, it is impossible to transmit the exact nuance I want to give on my opinion about Petrov. Either I leave the impression he is a total nulity or I give the impression he is the new Ayrton. Wel, he is neither. I said last season he was one of the evelations for me and I was thoroughly impressed. But his crashes were spectacular and made some silly moves too. And yes, he was a rookie and yes he was no match to Kubica and yes he was fast and yes he beat Nando fair and square and...

Well, in short: I like the guy, I hope he can really kick NH's a## and all that. But he is still a rookie and in this day and age, with limited testing you can also be expected to have some fear about his consistency through all the season.

Where does this irrational hatred of the Petrov stem from? Did your mum run away with a cossack?

Petrov is ok, nothing special!

Yep - he's okay.

But a slightly better okay than Heidfeld. That's all I want acknowledged by that Russian-hating baldy quoted above.

In all seriousness - I think Petrov had a fairly decent first season (better than most rookies). He drove like he wanted to be in F1. He made some rookie errors and crashes too. He didn't set the racing world on fire and certainly isn't up to the standard that Hamilton was in 2007 but by the end of the season he had matured enough to have a great race and remain unflustered by a 2 time champ up his rear end lap after lap. I think he's got more chance of staying in F1 for a while than quite a few other rookies - and not just because he's got money behind him.

He appears to be better at finding the edge than a lot of drivers (read Heidfeld) - mainly because he went over the line a few times (and crashed) and from that learnt how fast is too fast. Heidfeld has rarely come close to doing that - hence his consistent averageness.

I don't think he'll ever win a WDC, but I think he's a worthy addition to F1 as was Kobayashi in 2010. As for the other rookies - meh. Hulkenberg perhaps deserves a little more credit than he got.

One last note - had Kubi not crashed I would have loved to see Petrov challenging him. Probably not beating, but certainly challenging him this year. And that's no small thing - I rate Kubi very highly.

[Insider 0]

Well Cav, for me it's horses for courses. Prost, Mansell, Senna, Arnoux, Lauda all had to drive 190 mph+ cars with clutches and gearshifts - a highly skilful job. Now, a different skill set is required, punching buttons and clicking levers. The risk of death has almost vanished from the sport now too. Back in the day, it was a very real threat. I think it's it's a lot easier to get a car round quickly now than it was then and their are few drivers who could have competed on level terms with the men of yore. My picks would be Schumi, Rubens, Jenson, Kubica, Hamilton and Nando. Webber just might make but the current WDC is not up to scratch when it comes to bare bollock racing.

[Insider 0]

Petrov is ok, nothing special!

I think most people's problem with the guy is that he is a pay driver and they conceive that he is connected to the Russian mob. Also, fans have not warmed to Team Poochie though a little respect is seeping through but they need to continue in this competitive vein if they are to become re-setablished. Overall, I think the biggest problem is that VP has extremely large eyebrows that meet in the middle and he looks and talks like someone out of Universal Soldier

[BradSpeedMan 6]

In all seriousness - I think Petrov had a fairly decent first season (better than most rookies). He drove like he wanted to be in F1. He made some rookie errors and crashes too. He didn't set the racing world on fire and certainly isn't up to the standard that Hamilton was in 2007 but by the end of the season he had matured enough to have a great race and remain unflustered by a 2 time champ up his rear end lap after lap. I think he's got more chance of staying in F1 for a while than quite a few other rookies - and not just because he's got money behind him.

I think that whats happenin here. We were spoilt by an extraordinary gift and now unfortunately every rookie is judge accordingly.

[yurp 0]

I think that whats happenin here. We were spoilt by an extraordinary gift and now unfortunately every rookie is judge accordingly.

Entirely true.

That's why I compared Petrov's first season with Alonso, Raikonnen, Senna etc.*

EDIT

*Okay - I just checked (I like to be sure of my facts) - Current F1 drivers who retired less than Petrov (5 times) in their first season...

Hamilton - 1 retirement

Kovi - 1 retirement

Schumacher - 4 retirements - but only had 16 races rather than 19

Liuzzi - 4 retirements

Glock - 4 retirements

EVERYONE else retired more than Petrov in their first season (excluding this year's rookies).

PS - Rubens retired from 14 of 17 races in 1997!