Shadow Concept

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103 posts in this topic

Here is a thread to start discussions on this.

My opinion - Webber victory (This is based entirely on his trend so far and somehow he has to finish 0th in the race after and negative 1 in the race after that)

Discuss away.

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Here is a thread to start discussions on this.

My opinion - Webber victory (This is based entirely on his trend so far and somehow he has to finish 0th in the race after and negative 1 in the race after that)

Discuss away.

Highly unlikely. You ca'nt look at statistics like finishes he's had and because he's due a nr1 expect just that to work for him. What happens after he achieve a nr1, a nr 0? That means a retirement does'nt it? :D

Seriously, First he has to beat Vettel, and in order to do that he says he needs to be "inch perfect". That's him putting pressure on himself already, and with him not daring to go where Vettel does, I doubt victory for him...

Edited by BradSpeedMan

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I wasn't being entirely serious.

Just so far he's gone 5, 4, 3 and then 2.

He won't win against Vettel until he gets the confidence back he lost sometime through last year. I think a big chunk of the issue is that Vettel is much better at using the DRS during qualifying, Webber is much older and would have a harder time adapting to the new tech.

I hear the Mclarens have some decent upgrades so they should be more of a challenge this time.

I have no doubt we will see Nico up the front for a while then fall away like he has been.

I mainly just want Massa to beat Alonso, Button to beat Hamilton and Webber to beat Vettel really.

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He won't win against Vettel until he gets the confidence back he lost sometime through last year. I think a big chunk of the issue is that Vettel is much better at using the DRS during qualifying, Webber is much older and would have a harder time adapting to the new tech.

Since that crash at korea he has'nt been the same, he just faded. Difficult to pinpoint why???

Edited by BradSpeedMan

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May 13 (GMM) Ferrari is already working on the fundamental elements of its 2012 car, according to a report.The Spanish sports daily Marca said the Italian team is still developing the 150 Italia car in parallel, particularly the floor, diffuser, exhausts and the engine mapping.But the chassis, gearbox, suspension and cooling systems for its successor are also on the drawing board at Maranello, with the report saying the approach for next year "will be more aggressive".Ferrari is just third in the constructors' championship behind Red Bull and McLaren, with Fernando Alonso achieving the team's first podium of the season last weekend in Turkey.As for the 2012 car, chief designer Nikolas Tombazis said it is underway in May "because otherwise it will be too late"."For this development we have spoken about the problems of this year to have more aggressiveness in the project," he added. just waiting for ferrari updates for barcelona

Edited by Caesar

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Since that crash at korea he has'nt been the same, he just faded. Difficult to pinpoint why???

He lost it before then, he gained the lead of the WDC and almost instantly went into damage control mode. It almost felt like he had already lost when he still had the lead. Maybe he just isn't a good leader, it's pretty obvious he thrives on conflict and being the underdog so when he gets to the top he has nothing to fuel his drive and his confidence dips. It compounds the issue when he had a fairly big lead in the WDC and basically threw it away. At one stage last year he was the best driver on the grid, and I didn't see that same spark until China, kinda sad really.

Moving along though, I think Ferrari is in with a shot at another podium and I think Massa has a chance of being the one to get it. He made a few mistakes last race that ruined it for him but I think overall this season he has been as strong or stronger than Alonso, which is good to see.

I'm liking the battling between the McLaren drivers but I do think it hurt them last race, they used up a lot of rubber just battling each other - we might see them split strategies further just to keep them apart.

Should be another amazing race with DRS, but it's disappointing in that it takes some of the excitement away from the overtaking of my favourite driver - Kobayashi - though he still overtakes more than most.

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I wasn't being entirely serious.

Just so far he's gone 5, 4, 3 and then 2.

He won't win against Vettel until he gets the confidence back he lost sometime through last year. I think a big chunk of the issue is that Vettel is much better at using the DRS during qualifying, Webber is much older and would have a harder time adapting to the new tech.

I hear the Mclarens have some decent upgrades so they should be more of a challenge this time.

I have no doubt we will see Nico up the front for a while then fall away like he has been.

I mainly just want Massa to beat Alonso, Button to beat Hamilton and Webber to beat Vettel really.

Huh? That makes no sense at all. Sure if he was 90...but even Brundle can drive a modern F1 car...and I'd bet Stirling Moss could too. To suggest Webbers age means he doesn't understand something like the new button for DRS on the steering wheel, for instance, is inane.

Edited by HandyNZL

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Highly unlikely. You ca'nt look at statistics like finishes he's had and because he's due a nr1 expect just that to work for him. What happens after he achieve a nr1, a nr 0? That means a retirement does'nt it? :D

Seriously, First he has to beat Vettel, and in order to do that he says he needs to be "inch perfect". That's him putting pressure on himself already, and with him not daring to go where Vettel does, I doubt victory for him...

I'm with you, Bradders. History is no guarantee of the future. Vettel is operating on a different level to Mark right now.

Mark will probably win now....

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I'm with you, Bradders. History is no guarantee of the future. Vettel is operating on a different level to Mark right now.

Mark will probably win now....

:lol: Mark for my PPP prediction as winner then :naughty:

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Huh? That makes no sense at all. Sure if he was 90...but even Brundle can drive a modern F1 car...and I'd bet Stirling Moss could too. To suggest Webbers age means he doesn't understand something like the new button for DRS on the steering wheel, for instance, is inane.

What I meant was changing his driving style to get the best out of it during qualifying where you can use the DRS anywhere on the track. Vettel was recorded using it much earlier in the corner than many others during the qualifying sessions.

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Seriously, First he has to beat Vettel, and in order to do that he says he needs to be "inch perfect". That's him putting pressure on himself already, and with him not daring to go where Vettel does, I doubt victory for him...

Or it could be a target to aim for?

I'm not sure it's a case of him not daring to go where Vettel does, in the side by side video of their qualifying laps last week he was quicker than Vettel in a few corners. Maybe an issue with his setup or confidence in his set up?

However, I do believe Vettel is in purple patch right now and is in a slightly different league at the moment.

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I'm not sure it's a case of him not daring to go where Vettel does, in the side by side video of their qualifying laps last week he was quicker than Vettel in a few corners. Maybe an issue with his setup or confidence in his set up?

Was he???I had to re-check and the bloody video was taken down due to stupid FIA blockage. It would make sense as he ended up only .4 sec of Vettel... Thing is, opening the DRS earlier at turn 8 just shows how more brave Vettel is for the feel of the road, nothing wrong with Webbo in his setup, it comes down to his driving style and the limits of it. Marks drives harder while Vettel's finesse suits the surface of the road better, and lets not talk about how differently they treat their tires. Also remember Vettel was alwasy faster than Webber during testing. Taking those risks then might be to Mark's detriment, cause it means Mark has to change the way he drives....

Edited by BradSpeedMan

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What I meant was changing his driving style to get the best out of it during qualifying where you can use the DRS anywhere on the track. Vettel was recorded using it much earlier in the corner than many others during the qualifying sessions.

It's entirely natural that some drivers will get more out of the toys available to them than others, and it's certainly possible Vettel is getting more out of the DRS than Mark. I believe it is more likely to do with skill and comfort in the car, rather than age, though.

Was he???I had to re-check and the bloody video was taken down due to stupid FIA blockage. It would make sense as he ended up only .4 sec of Vettel... Thing is, opening the DRS earlier at turn 8 just shows how more brave Vettel is for the feel of the road, nothing wrong with Webbo in his setup, it comes down to his driving style and the limits of it. Marks drives harder while Vettel's finesse suits the surface of the road better, and lets not talk about how differently they treat their tires. Also remember Vettel was alwasy faster than Webber during testing. Taking those risks then might be to Mark's detriment, cause it means Mark has to change the way he drives....

Webber might have been faster in one or two but Vettel was quicker in the rest (and quicker out of the ones leading onto long straights). Like you said, Vettel has more finesse, he was picking his lines very well, being tight into the corners where it mattered and choosing a wider line (of less resistance) where it didn't. That's what Webber was getting 'wrong' and why he ended up being 0.4 slower.

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It's entirely natural that some drivers will get more out of the toys available to them than others, and it's certainly possible Vettel is getting more out of the DRS than Mark. I believe it is more likely to do with skill and comfort in the car, rather than age, though.

Webber might have been faster in one or two but Vettel was quicker in the rest (and quicker out of the ones leading onto long straights). Like you said, Vettel has more finesse, he was picking his lines very well, being tight into the corners where it mattered and choosing a wider line (of less resistance) where it didn't. That's what Webber was getting 'wrong' and why he ended up being 0.4 slower.

lovely stuff :thbup:

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Was he???I had to re-check and the bloody video was taken down due to stupid FIA blockage. It would make sense as he ended up only .4 sec of Vettel... Thing is, opening the DRS earlier at turn 8 just shows how more brave Vettel is for the feel of the road, nothing wrong with Webbo in his setup, it comes down to his driving style and the limits of it. Marks drives harder while Vettel's finesse suits the surface of the road better, and lets not talk about how differently they treat their tires. Also remember Vettel was alwasy faster than Webber during testing. Taking those risks then might be to Mark's detriment, cause it means Mark has to change the way he drives....

Aye, he was. Obviously not anywhere that mattered since he ended up being 0.4s slower though :lol:

Regarding the switching drs earlier in turn 8, I have not really thought about this before, but does drs move a set amount or does it always move to a default position? I know different teams have slightly different implementations, but just curious if it moves relative to rear wing set up or to a set position when activated.

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Webber might have been faster in one or two but Vettel was quicker in the rest (and quicker out of the ones leading onto long straights). Like you said, Vettel has more finesse, he was picking his lines very well, being tight into the corners where it mattered and choosing a wider line (of less resistance) where it didn't. That's what Webber was getting 'wrong' and why he ended up being 0.4 slower.

Oooh hark at you Mr Critical :lol:

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Oooh hark at you Mr Critical :lol:

:P I wasn't actually trying to be critical, my post was supposed to be an admiration of Vettel's driving rather than a criticism of Webber's! I just thought it was interesting that Webber didn't really make any clear 'mistakes' on his lap compared to Vettel, and his lap was actually pretty tidy, the only difference being in their lines through the corners. In that sense I really do think Vettel is on a different level to Webber atm. I mean, if Mark was slower due to a mistake on his lap it would presumably be easier for him to live with, instead he is just slower in his driving style, which has got to be more worrying (a driving style is harder to remedy/improve than the odd mistake..).

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:P I wasn't actually trying to be critical, my post was supposed to be an admiration of Vettel's driving rather than a criticism of Webber's! I just thought it was interesting that Webber didn't really make any clear 'mistakes' on his lap compared to Vettel, and his lap was actually pretty tidy, the only difference being in their lines through the corners. In that sense I really do think Vettel is on a different level to Webber atm. I mean, if Mark was slower due to a mistake on his lap it would presumably be easier for him to live with, instead he is just slower in his driving style, which has got to be more worrying (a driving style is harder to remedy/improve than the odd mistake..).

He didn't make any 'mistakes' as such, however, he did miss a few apexes, not by much, but it starts to compound, I guess.

Surely, all Webber has to do is watch that video and he will know where he is going wrong :whistling::lol:

I think most people are agreed that Vettel is in a rich vein of form at the moment.

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:P I wasn't actually trying to be critical, my post was supposed to be an admiration of Vettel's driving rather than a criticism of Webber's

No it wasn't. Come clean Gerorge - you just hate Webber. We know.

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No it wasn't. Come clean Gerorge - you just hate Webber. We know.

I don't hate him I just think he has bad security underpinnings. Jeez!

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I don't hate him I just think he has bad security underpinnings. Jeez!

Troll :mf_tongue:

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I don't hate him I just think he has bad security underpinnings. Jeez!

I heard he didn't even have a fully working ASLR.... <shakes head sorrowfully> :)

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I heard he didn't even have a fully working ASLR.... <shakes head sorrowfully> :)

That's just Google propaganda. :whistling:

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Webber doesn't care. He knows he's going to win every race once he gets used to the car. :unsure:

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