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rodders47

Just Wondering

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What are the rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When Alonso had to stop his car at then end of the final lap.and get a lift home with Weber, presumably because there was only the minimum amount of fuel left in the Ferrari, as was heard over the radio communication, what are the rules with relating to the car having to return to the pits under it's own power?

Yeah I know this is nit picking BUT if a car is brought back to the pits on a crane/truck after the finish of the race, has that car actually FINISHED the race? meaning if it cannot return to the pits with enough fuel in the tank for a 1 Litre fuel sample to be taken then I summise that IF no fuel sample can be taken, then the car would have to be disqualified!!

over to you wiser people

Rod

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I think the FIA have far more important things to worry about - I heard some of the drivers' overalls were missing their stitched FIA logos!

Prioritise.

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I think it's pretty clear cut. Here's what the 2011 FIA sporting regulations say;

regs1.jpg

So, Alonso's car was placed under the exclusive control of the Marshall's, checked and deemed legal because a fuel sample was found. Alonso's car crossed the line and finished the race. I don't see any ambiguity here.

An extra thought (and this really is nit picking!) As Mark 'received an object' (i.e. the Spanish two legged monobrow) was he not in breach of the reg's? Also, with the extra 80kgs of red overall wearing moany man aboard, would his car not be able to pick up more rubber from the track as a result, creating an unfiar weight advantage for post race scrutineering, should he be near the minimum weight limit?

Ah TF1, tackling the real issues in F1....

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Alonso's climbing aboard was Ferreri's dastardly plan to make Webber use more fuel and thus come in without enough fuel to test.

How about this though...

...all cars must proceed on the circuit directly to the post race parc ferme without any unnecessary delay...

Surely they should pull a u-turn right after the finish line and take the shortest route back to parc ferme. None of this driving around waving at the fans for a lap nonsense. Scoundrels!

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F1 has become a farce, a total joke. The rule clearly states that ALL cars should proceed to the parc fermé without delay after the race, yet I could clearly see from the windows of my home that no car was heading towards Nurburgring's parc fermé, not to mention that many cars were obviously in no rush to reach anywhere (typpical sunday morning traffic).

And what about YOUR cars, people? I haven't seen any of your cars, either!!!

And what has FIA done? Nothing! Nada! Zero! Zip!

A joke, I tell ya.

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F1 has become a farce, a total joke. The rule clearly states that ALL cars should proceed to the parc fermé without delay after the race, yet I could clearly see from the windows of my home that no car was heading towards Nurburgring's parc fermé, not to mention that many cars were obviously in no rush to reach anywhere (typpical sunday morning traffic).

And what about YOUR cars, people? I haven't seen any of your cars, either!!!

And what has FIA done? Nothing! Nada! Zero! Zip!

A joke, I tell ya.

Speak for yourself, my car was in parc ferme on Sunday. Wait........parc ferme is French for dogging right :eusa_think:

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Hi Dribbler,

Not sure that the Marshalls would be able to check IF there was sufficent fuel for a sample to be taken!! But I get your drift. anyway was just aking the question. Seems to me that a car that runs Soooooooooo close to the limit must only be doing it because of the extra performance it will get with limited on board weight, i.e. fuel

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Hi Dribbler,

Not sure that the Marshalls would be able to check IF there was sufficent fuel for a sample to be taken!! But I get your drift. anyway was just aking the question. Seems to me that a car that runs Soooooooooo close to the limit must only be doing it because of the extra performance it will get with limited on board weight, i.e. fuel

In the BBC's post race forum, both Martin Brundle and Eddie Jordan explained how it is highly unusual (for a car that has run out of fuel on track) no to to be able to find the required sample of one litre from somewhere. This is because the fuel pick ups are never able to drain a fuel tank dry. Even if they do, there will be fuel in a line or a trap somewhere.

Does everyone feel this is fair, or should the rules be amended to the effect that any sample should come from the tank only? For me, it doesn't matter. If there is alitre of fuel in the car at least somewhere, it weighs the same wherever it is.

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In the BBC's post race forum, both Martin Brundle and Eddie Jordan explained how it is highly unusual (for a car that has run out of fuel on track) no to to be able to find the required sample of one litre from somewhere. This is because the fuel pick ups are never able to drain a fuel tank dry. Even if they do, there will be fuel in a line or a trap somewhere.

Does everyone feel this is fair, or should the rules be amended to the effect that any sample should come from the tank only? For me, it doesn't matter. If there is alitre of fuel in the car at least somewhere, it weighs the same wherever it is.

I think as long as they can get the fuel, then it's fine. If a team wants to inconvenience their driver by making him walk or get a ride back to the pit, especially if he has won the race, then it's their call :lol:

I didn't hear the team radio, but presumably they told Nando to stop the car before it ran out of fuel anyway, for that very reason?

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Oops, with all the jokes I forgot to reply seriously to Rodders. Actually, I think it was a case of FIA being unfair and favouring Ferrari (or Alonso). I am amazed no mobs were marching picking on this. I guess they were too happy revelling on Lewis' win to pay enough attention to this.

You make a really good point and I asked myself if it was not a breach of the rules when I saw Nando taking a lift on Mark's car. I watched the race with some friends and we even had a short argument about whether he could just leave his car anywhere. The FIA deemed the whole issue as legit before I could even get back home and thus I forgot to check up the rules.

But now, seeing the rule itself, I can't help buut notice that it says that all cars should go to parc fermée blah blah blah...unless they are UNABLE to do so.

Well, Alonso's car was not UNABLE to reach parc fermée. Nando was told to switch off the engine. So I think that it was at least against the spirit of the rule.

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Oops, with all the jokes I forgot to reply seriously to Rodders. Actually, I think it was a case of FIA being unfair and favouring Ferrari (or Alonso). I am amazed no mobs were marching picking on this. I guess they were too happy revelling on Lewis' win to pay enough attention to this.

You make a really good point and I asked myself if it was not a breach of the rules when I saw Nando taking a lift on Mark's car. I watched the race with some friends and we even had a short argument about whether he could just leave his car anywhere. The FIA deemed the whole issue as legit before I could even get back home and thus I forgot to check up the rules.

But now, seeing the rule itself, I can't help buut notice that it says that all cars should go to parc fermée blah blah blah...unless they are UNABLE to do so.

Well, Alonso's car was not UNABLE to reach parc fermée. Nando was told to switch off the engine. So I think that it was at least against the spirit of the rule.

Well I have to admit i expected punishment until I read the rule Steve posted. Nothing wrong, they were lenient with the same issue when Hamilton had it, albeit within a qualifying context.....

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Oops, with all the jokes I forgot to reply seriously to Rodders. Actually, I think it was a case of FIA being unfair and favouring Ferrari (or Alonso). I am amazed no mobs were marching picking on this. I guess they were too happy revelling on Lewis' win to pay enough attention to this.

You make a really good point and I asked myself if it was not a breach of the rules when I saw Nando taking a lift on Mark's car. I watched the race with some friends and we even had a short argument about whether he could just leave his car anywhere. The FIA deemed the whole issue as legit before I could even get back home and thus I forgot to check up the rules.

But now, seeing the rule itself, I can't help buut notice that it says that all cars should go to parc fermée blah blah blah...unless they are UNABLE to do so.

Well, Alonso's car was not UNABLE to reach parc fermée. Nando was told to switch off the engine. So I think that it was at least against the spirit of the rule.

I'm guessing it's just Alonso fans that don't know the proper rules of F1 then :whistling::eekout:

I don't think it's against the spirit of the rules, to be honest, it's more an inconvenience to them and the driver than anything else. And surely the gain from having 1 lap or 1/2 lap less fuel is negligible in the scheme of the whole race. It's not like he wasn't pushing until the end and I'd rather see this and then run out of fuel after the finish line more than having to conserve fuel for 15 laps, like Macca last race.

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All good points guys, I just wonder sometimes when rules are applied differently to different drivers/cars over time, why they are not consistent> I think that if Hamilton had parked his car on the run down lap, some questions would have been asked, and no I am not taking sides here.

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Alonso crossed the finishing line and won his points fair and square. If a habit was made of it to gain an advantage then i'd be worried, but it's just a one off. The regulations as they are encourage the teams to put in as little fuel as possible and on this occasion Ferrari just got it a touch wrong. No big deal IMO

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Stopping was never a problem. Being sat atop another car was.

One is about the mechanics, the other a safety issue.

If Nando had driven back to the pits, then he may not have had enough fuel for the check, and therefore would have been excluded from the race.

By catching a lift Nando broke a few safety rules, namely being on the race track whilst cars are circulating. At worst he and Webber would have been fined, and we all know that the $100,000.00 was not enough of a put off to break the rules last year, so a little slap on the (monetary) wrist was the least of Ferrari's concerns. Unless the FIA deducted points, then Ferrari will always instruct the driver to stop.

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I agree with you on the second point, it was unsafe and pretty silly

A bit like F1 on the whole, really. I loved the fact that Mark gave him a lift. If nothing else, it showed the genuine friendship between Mark and Fernando, and the fact that Fernando had no problem with putting his trust in him. An extension of the respect and philosophy they have for each other on track. It was refreshing and insightful, in my opinion.

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In the BBC's post race forum, both Martin Brundle and Eddie Jordan explained how it is highly unusual (for a car that has run out of fuel on track) no to to be able to find the required sample of one litre from somewhere. This is because the fuel pick ups are never able to drain a fuel tank dry. Even if they do, there will be fuel in a line or a trap somewhere.

Does everyone feel this is fair, or should the rules be amended to the effect that any sample should come from the tank only? For me, it doesn't matter. If there is alitre of fuel in the car at least somewhere, it weighs the same wherever it is.

There generally is a fuel trap designed into the reservoirs from which the FIA may recover fuel at the termination of the race.

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There generally is a fuel trap designed into the reservoirs from which the FIA may recover fuel at the termination of the race.

The secret Bar-Honda fuel reserve which got them banned, which was never a secret afterall...

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The secret Bar-Honda fuel reserve which got them banned, which was never a secret afterall...

As I recall, that was a secret compartment in the tank itself, as opposed to a trap or a line.

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As I recall, that was a secret compartment in the tank itself, as opposed to a trap or a line.

No secret compartment my friend, it was the fuel trap that was checked and then found that there was nothing wrong when they inspected it 3 races prior to being banned. When they then added the fuel weight of the fuel trap the overall weight of the car was legal. The mistake that BAR made was to tackle the issue without the fuel weight trap. Mosley's politics then came into play.

well, story for another day I suppose

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If you look at the footage in slow motion, I am sure that you are able to see Alonso flexing. Is this another example on how RedBull are getting away with illegal parts? Adrian Newey is a genuis - who else would come up with the idea of attaching an Alsonso to the side of the car.

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If you look at the footage in slow motion, I am sure that you are able to see Alonso flexing. Is this another example on how RedBull are getting away with illegal parts? Adrian Newey is a genuis - who else would come up with the idea of attaching an Alsonso to the side of the car.

Lmao, I thought it was a good thing to watch, formula one has too many rules and regulations... Just let the drivers race and be normal people which is this case was Mark helping out a mate in Alonso. Okay so it was not the 'safest' method of getting back to the pits but its not like Mark was doing speeds of 200-300kms with other cars doing the same around him, common sense needs to prevail over the stupid FIA!

I remember three drives taking a ride on one car, was it at the Mexico Grand Prix if I recall correctly? Would have been a fair few years ago now.

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