monza gorilla 1 Report post Posted September 30, 2011 So Geoff and Aldo are off to help Ross and Norbert turn Mercedes into a force to be reckoned with. But will they? Willis's BARs were quite nifty, and Aldo is one of Ross's old mates from the Ferrari steamroller years, so the pedigree is good. But in recent times their haloes haven't been quite as shiny. And it's still, I assume, basically the old Honda outfit, who could never quite nail a decent car together without resorting to putting bunny ears on the nose. I see no magical turn around. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Caesar 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2011 So Geoff and Aldo are off to help Ross and Norbert turn Mercedes into a force to be reckoned with. But will they? Willis's BARs were quite nifty, and Aldo is one of Ross's old mates from the Ferrari steamroller years, so the pedigree is good. But in recent times their haloes haven't been quite as shiny. And it's still, I assume, basically the old Honda outfit, who could never quite nail a decent car together without resorting to putting bunny ears on the nose. I see no magical turn around. you asked and you answered it. don't forget that they have schumi,too. i think they are a decade too late. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dribbler 6 Report post Posted September 30, 2011 The issues will surely be 2012 rule consistency and how much more slippery/punchy/grippy they can make the Merc. I see no magic step forward either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted September 30, 2011 I see a BIG step forward, the know-how these 2 guys bring to the team is fundamental and invalueble.... Here's to Merc into the top 3!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Quiet One 15 Report post Posted September 30, 2011 ...and Rory Byrne back to Ferrari. I can't see any RBR-like car coming out from all this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dribbler 6 Report post Posted September 30, 2011 I see a BIG step forward, the know-how these 2 guys bring to the team is fundamental and invalueble.... Here's to Merc into the top 3!!! I'm guessing you're basing this more on hope than anything else. If not, what areas of improvement do you think they will bring to the car? As an armachair spectator I rather think that the potential of their current car has probably been maximised. Willis in particular will probably not be able to apply his philosophies to an existing design (which next year's Merc will almost certainly be an evolution of). It won't be until 2013 with a clean sheet of paper that he could add real gains. That's all assuming that he is capable of doing such a thing. If he was that good, he wouldn't have sat at HRT trying to haul their arses up the grid, would he? Or am I under estimating him? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tifosi too! 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2011 In other news, the consequences of them moving to the Mercedes F1 team haven't been properly calculated yet, regarding the team's average member age ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Autumnpuma 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2011 I'm guessing you're basing this more on hope than anything else. If not, what areas of improvement do you think they will bring to the car? As an armachair spectator I rather think that the potential of their current car has probably been maximised. Willis in particular will probably not be able to apply his philosophies to an existing design (which next year's Merc will almost certainly be an evolution of). It won't be until 2013 with a clean sheet of paper that he could add real gains. That's all assuming that he is capable of doing such a thing. If he was that good, he wouldn't have sat at HRT trying to haul their arses up the grid, would he? Or am I under estimating him? I wouldn't lay the blame on Willis for the horrid HRT. He was constantly quoted as saying the team needed more money to advance further. I expect he did the best he could with the money he had. Willis' best, however, is what is under scrutiny, yes? Willis was one of the first persons (if not *the* first person...have to research that) to apply CFD to a racing car. That bit of history aside, his actual designs have never been all that brilliant. His best designs were done at Williams alongside the genius of Gavin Fisher and it was Gavin that would design the car and Willis that would put the bits together and make it work. Since those Head-y days at Williams (see what I did there) we haven't seen a truly excellent car from Willis. Looking at his record, I would guess he needs a brilliant designer like Gavin to make a brilliant car. But that's true for every team, right? Willis won't make a bit of difference at Merc until they find a brilliant designer like Fisher. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dribbler 6 Report post Posted September 30, 2011 Since those Head-y days at Williams (see what I did there) I wasn't impressed by the joke, being Frank. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted September 30, 2011 I'm guessing you're basing this more on hope than anything else. If not, what areas of improvement do you think they will bring to the car? When you a "abit gay" you rely alot on hope and instinct Steve... I sometimes allow common sense to prevail. Logic might be a goddess in her own right, but let's not give her too much credit....but last time I checked 1 plus 1 still made 2... Actually logic can be a really dangerous thing. It carries a heavy weight and can stop new ideas right at the start. It won't allow an idea to nurture. Enough rambling for now... Since Merc is looking for areas of improvement, I think they fit the glove, so to speak. As you mentioned with the evolution bit, the existing design won't change much. Last year Ferrari was able to improve significantly over the course of the season to the point where Alonso was relatively competitive, essentially the car that they build had alot of potential. With this in mind let's remind ourselves though that the other reason was that that RBR intra-teammate battle allowed Alonso close the gap and lead the standings going to the last race. Anyway, let's look at Ferrari where they are now, I think they made a big mistake in sacking Aldo, for whatever reason. The standings tell a tale does'nt it? With the rules and regulations not changing much for 2012, and "Costa will be responsible for design and development" I think the other goddess called experience counts alot Stevie. I see a change in Merc's future. Yeah Geoff's Willis HRT tenure hurts when looking at his CV, but he was with Adrain Newey just as the RBR team started to compete at the top. Together with Brawn and Schumie, they will be able to build a good car, I'm sure of it... So essentially I'm hopeful yes, but it's a good hopeful... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dribbler 6 Report post Posted September 30, 2011 When you a "abit gay" you rely alot on hope and instinct Steve... I sometimes allow common sense to prevail. Logic might be a goddess in her own right, but let's not give her too much credit....but last time I checked 1 plus 1 still made 2... Actually logic can be a really dangerous thing. It carries a heavy weight and can stop new ideas right at the start. It won't allow an idea to nurture. Enough rambling for now... Since Merc is looking for areas of improvement, I think they fit the glove, so to speak. As you mentioned with the evolution bit, the existing design won't change much. Last year Ferrari was able to improve significantly over the course of the season to the point where Alonso was relatively competitive, essentially the car that they build had alot of potential. With this in mind let's remind ourselves though that the other reason was that that RBR intra-teammate battle allowed Alonso close the gap and lead the standings going to the last race. Anyway, let's look at Ferrari where they are now, I think they made a big mistake in sacking Aldo, for whatever reason. The standings tell a tale does'nt it? With the rules and regulations not changing much for 2012, and "Costa will be responsible for design and development" I think the other goddess called experience counts alot Stevie. I see a change in Merc's future. Yeah Geoff's Willis HRT tenure hurts when looking at his CV, but he was with Adrain Newey just as the RBR team started to compete at the top. Together with Brawn and Schumie, they will be able to build a good car, I'm sure of it... So essentially I'm hopeful yes, but it's a good hopeful... No one would be happier than me if you are correct, my dearest Bradley. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Caesar 0 Report post Posted October 1, 2011 found this on other forum: "i was always a little concerned that in F1 there was no provision for any sort of retirement plan for drivers and team personel, but now i see the grand plan,Mercedes is a brand which is always associated with older and semi retired people who enjoy comfort.i think it is very good of Brawn to provide a retirement home for old Ferrari drivers and engineers....." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HandyNZL 1 Report post Posted October 1, 2011 I guess they will design a car with four wheels, a couple of wings and some sort of suspension. Then they will race it against some other cars designed along a similar idea and see where the cookie crumbles. That's about how inspired I am with Mercedes-riding-on-the-coat-tails-of-1950's-success-and-some-other-Formula-One-relics Team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LabradoRacer 2 Report post Posted October 2, 2011 Fingers crossed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Caesar 0 Report post Posted October 2, 2011 ...and Rory Byrne back to Ferrari. I can't see any RBR-like car coming out from all this. actually Ferrari is hiring Roary Racing Car, not Rory Byrne. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
