Jense: 'michael Will Be Beaten'

[kiko01 0]

I dont want to argue about it, theres no point! I'm fine today thankyou how's the weather in Spain today

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The weather is allways ok in the sunny Spain!!! Well, to be honest, i live in the north of Spain where the weather

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Well its cloudy here it won't be sunny until about April!

[kiko01 0]

Thanks Kiko...eres un buen amigo.

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[Jem of the Shire 0]

ok lets not get carried away

[ksajoe 0]

This time i really think you

[ksajoe 0]

If you have watched all the races FA is certainly more consistent than Jarno. On his days Jarno might have beaten FA but if you take the all round performance I think FA is better

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Truli is truly a good driver (average) and FA is an excellent driver ,just not consistent enough (which makes him average too), but FA has more potential to mature into a better driver, Truli is on a decline curve

[Jem of the Shire 0]

I disagree with the last point, that Trulli is on a declining curve. When he was at Prost he was nothing special. When he was at Jordan he had some brilliant qualifying days but no decent results. In 2002 he was no match for Button and in 2003 Alonso was better. But this year he really has shown himself to be a top driver, consistently at the front, and did not deserve to be treated like he was around Monza-time. Next year I expect Toyota to move forward with Trulli actually now on an UPWARD curve!

[kiko01 0]

Truli is truly a good driver (average) and FA is an excellent driver ,just not consistent enough (which makes him  average too), but FA has more potential to mature into a better driver, Truli is on a decline curve

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I don

[ksajoe 0]

I disagree with the last point, that Trulli is on a declining curve. When he was at Prost he was nothing special. When he was at Jordan he had some brilliant qualifying days but no decent results. In 2002 he was no match for Button and in 2003 Alonso was better. But this year he really has shown himself to be a top driver, consistently at the front, and did not deserve to be treated like he was around Monza-time. Next year I expect Toyota to move forward with Trulli actually now on an UPWARD curve!

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A blip is not an upward curve, if history is anything to go by - he will be outgunned by his team mate. Truli is a one-quick-lap sort of guy! He might qualify higher than RS but it's the race day form that counts ( and his form is truli suspect!!!)

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Hmm witty. Trulli was more of a threat than Alonso this year, I admit he was outclassed in 2003. But its not a blip, its a turning point in his career!!

[ksajoe 0]

Hmm witty. Trulli was more of a threat than Alonso this year, I admit he was outclassed in 2003. But its not a blip, its a turning point in his career!!

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I hope it's a turning point, and not just for him but for the whole grid. We need to see some racing for once! Lets hope at least the rest of the grid develope good cars that are a match to ferrari - ferrari have actually gotten bored and winning too easily (but they will not complain!). We need the race decided on the last lap and last venue - China! Let all pretenders to the throne show what they are made of or forever (which only lasts until MS retires!) hold their peace!!

There has been enough talk about Kimi, JPM, Jenson, Alonso & Weber - so here is their golden chance! They are very talented drivers but whoever wins the four-way-race for best of the rest is the one to take over the mantle!!

[Sato 0]

Hey theres no proof that Elvis isnt alive!!

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Except his dead body ofcourse........

[Smoke 0]

So, the topic is:

Jense: 'michael Will Be Beaten'

Long, meandering thread this one. But, there have been lots of interesting reads getting through it...

JB has to say things like 'Michael Will Be Beaten'. All of the good drivers out there have to think the same thing. I can't believe any of them are out there without thinking they have a shot at winning. I'm not saying every driver out there on the grid thinks he has a shot, but at least anyone at BAR, McLaren, Renault or Williams has to believe he has a shot at winning. They wouldn't be driving for those teams if they didn't believe that.

Now to go off topic as this thread has done so well...

As for JV, I'm looking forwarding to seeing what he can do in the Sauber next year. Flourish or flounder, it's gonna be interesting. Sauber is an interesting place to be for JV, he can sort of safely test the waters as it were. If he does well, he looks good because he help lift the Sauber out of mid-field. If he doesn't do well, well, then the Sauber was only a mid-field car to begin with. Actually, I think Sauber currently has great potential, and that alone will be interesting to watch next year.

Next years Gascoyne designed Toyota with JT and RS in the seat will be another interesting thing to watch. I thing JT and RS are good drivers, maybe at times great. I think next year is going to be a big test for the lot of them. They all need to start performing at the top level or Toyota's decision to enter F1 is going to start looking like folly. Let's see what Gascoyne can do with the chasis over next year and the year after. I think he will be able to move Toyota forward like he moved his last couple of teams forward.

Boy, I was suprised to see how much of a squabble FA caused. I think he did struggle a little be last year, but the 2 years before, there were times when he looked brilliant. Will he win a WDC? Hell, I don't know, can Renault give him a car capable of doing it?

And that's the whole thing with MS and Ferrari right now. Now there is a team. Is MS the best driver ever? On pure talent alone, probably not. As a talent and a team motivator, probably. What Ferrari and MS have done is amazing, they are probably the best team ever, so far, anyway. I think RB showed how good the car was when he was given free rein at the end of the season. But, I think next year is going to be much tougher for them. But, with the folks running the show at Ferrari right now, the strength of their race strategies, they will still be the team to beat.

Not going to say much about McLaren. If they can produce a car, they are going to get results, they have the strongest driver line up around. If they can carry on like they did once they got the B car last year, they could just as easily dominate next season as Ferrari did this. I'm not saying they will, because they need to start the season as strong as they finish it, and they haven't been able to do that the last few years. But watch out if they start off strong. Gonna be fun to watch KR and JPM going at it next season.

Williams is a mystery for me. The car will probably be good. But they are going to be starting with two fresh drivers, and I think it will take the team a while to settle in. That will probably take them out of the championship chase next season. Can't wait to find out who fills the second seat there. I know there are a lot of Webber fans out there. They will find out if there hearts are in the right place next year. But, if he can duplicate his efforts in the Jag, but at the level of the Williams, he should be okay. He did have some strong showings in what was clearly not a front running Jag.

Speaking of Jag, I wish Red Bull a lot of luck next year. And the next couple of years after. Sure they were heavily involved with Sauber, but I think they are going to have a lot to learn in the hunting grounds of F1. But, if they can put the right cast of characters in place, anything is possible. But, I wouldn't expect too much from them next year. We have to wait to see what the Red Bull $ can do over the next couple of years to decide if Red Bull has the balls it takes to make it in F1. I think if they are smart they will hire DC. He's going to be able to help them learn about their cars better then most drivers out there.

BAR is going to be strong again next year. Are they going to win any races? I think if they can plan the right race strategy, they can win, I just don't know if they can come up with and execute the perfect strategy. So, I guess I'm saying I think Button can win a race in a BAR. But I don't think BAR can win a championship, not yet, anyway. But, Honda's increased involvement with the team can only be a good thing. In fact, I bet Button doesn't leave now that Honda is buying a large piece of the team.

So, back to the topic of this thread. I think it's good JB showed some balls and mouthed off. I want to know he believes he can win, otherwise kick his butt out of the c##Kpit! Good luck to him!

Good luck to KR, JPM, MW, ??, FA, GF, JB, TS and the rest. It would be great to see someone at least take MS to the wire the way Kimi did two years ago. We can all at least hope that next year will bring competition!

Flame on!

[Shadow 0]

there's obviously no convincing you people that JV's time is up, his glory days are long behind him. I guess i'll just let his 2005 results convince u instead!

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Hey jemstride long time no see. I just want to say a point. You support JB for whatever he does and we support JV.It is as simple as that

[Shadow 0]

hey forgot ter mention in the last post. how many times do you think JV will beat JB in 2005?

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Absolutely none of course! Hey I accept that you support JV for what he does. But there's no use arguing that he did a good job for Renault, because he didn't and we all know it. Fair enough, he needed time to adjust. So instead they should have used their test driver, who was used to the car.

[ksajoe 0]

hey forgot ter mention in the last post. how many times do you think JV will beat JB in 2005?

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I would say about five times! JB will shock alot of people in 2005 (by under-performing!!)

[ksajoe 0]

So, the topic is:

  Jense: 'michael Will Be Beaten'

Long, meandering thread this one. But, there have been lots of interesting reads getting through it...

JB has to say things like 'Michael Will Be Beaten'. All of the good drivers out there have to think the same thing. I can't believe any of them are out there without thinking they have a shot at winning. I'm not saying every driver out there on the grid thinks he has a shot, but at least anyone at BAR, McLaren, Renault or Williams has to believe he has a shot at winning. They wouldn't be driving for those teams if they didn't believe that.

Now to go off topic as this thread has done so well...

As for JV, I'm looking forwarding to seeing what he can do in the Sauber next year. Flourish or flounder, it's gonna be interesting. Sauber is an interesting place to be for JV, he can sort of safely test the waters as it were. If he does well, he looks good because he help lift the Sauber out of mid-field. If he doesn't do well, well, then the Sauber was only a mid-field car to begin with. Actually, I think Sauber currently has great potential, and that alone will be interesting to watch next year.

Next years Gascoyne designed Toyota with JT and RS in the seat will be another interesting thing to watch. I thing JT and RS are good drivers, maybe at times great. I think next year is going to be a big test for the lot of them. They all need to start performing at the top level or Toyota's decision to enter F1 is going to start looking like folly. Let's see what Gascoyne can do with the chasis over next year and the year after. I think he will be able to move Toyota forward like he moved his last couple of teams forward.

Boy, I was suprised to see how much of a squabble FA caused. I think he did struggle a little be last year, but the 2 years before, there were times when he looked brilliant. Will he win a WDC? Hell, I don't know, can Renault give him a car capable of doing it?

And that's the whole thing with MS and Ferrari right now. Now there is a team. Is MS the best driver ever? On pure talent alone, probably not. As a talent and a team motivator, probably. What Ferrari and MS have done is amazing, they are probably the best team ever, so far, anyway. I think RB showed how good the car was when he was given free rein at the end of the season. But, I think next year is going to be much tougher for them. But, with the folks running the show at Ferrari right now, the strength of their race strategies, they will still be the team to beat.

Not going to say much about McLaren. If they can produce a car, they are going to get results, they have the strongest driver line up around. If they can carry on like they did once they got the B car last year, they could just as easily dominate next season as Ferrari did this. I'm not saying they will, because they need to start the season as strong as they finish it, and they haven't been able to do that the last few years. But watch out if they start off strong. Gonna be fun to watch KR and JPM going at it next season.

Williams is a mystery for me. The car will probably be good. But they are going to be starting with two fresh drivers, and I think it will take the team a while to settle in. That will probably take them out of the championship chase next season. Can't wait to find out who fills the second seat there. I know there are a lot of Webber fans out there. They will find out if there hearts are in the right place next year. But, if he can duplicate his efforts in the Jag, but at the level of the Williams, he should be okay. He did have some strong showings in what was clearly not a front running Jag.

Speaking of Jag, I wish Red Bull a lot of luck next year. And the next couple of years after. Sure they were heavily involved with Sauber, but I think they are going to have a lot to learn in the hunting grounds of F1. But, if they can put the right cast of characters in place, anything is possible. But, I wouldn't expect too much from them next year. We have to wait to see what the Red Bull $ can do over the next couple of years to decide if Red Bull has the balls it takes to make it in F1. I think if they are smart they will hire DC. He's going to be able to help them learn about their cars better then most drivers out there.

BAR is going to be strong again next year. Are they going to win any races? I think if they can plan the right race strategy, they can win, I just don't know if they can come up with and execute the perfect strategy. So, I guess I'm saying I think Button can win a race in a BAR. But I don't think BAR can win a championship, not yet, anyway. But, Honda's increased involvement with the team can only be a good thing. In fact, I bet Button doesn't leave now that Honda is buying a large piece of the team.

So, back to the topic of this thread.  I think it's good JB showed some balls and mouthed off. I want to know he believes he can win, otherwise kick his butt out of the c##Kpit! Good luck to him!

Good luck to KR, JPM, MW, ??, FA, GF, JB, TS and the rest. It would be great to see someone at least take MS to the wire the way Kimi did two years ago. We can all at least hope that next year will bring competition!

Flame on!

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Lengthy analysis but good stuff. I personally think BAR will find it abit hard to sustain the momentum and Maclaren & Williams will want to spare themselves blushes. Gascoyne has to justify his wages and toyota need to justify the resources they are throwing at the team - so I think this will be very interesting and the Toyota is a car to look forward to next year.

Sauber will have to find a new engine supplier in 2006 and any gains made in 2005 will be reversed (unfortunately!) - michelin rubbers should shoot them straight into the middle of the pack. Williams might suffer due to lack of consistency brought on by change in their driver line-up as well as loosing Gene to ferrari - they might be playing catch up to Ferrari , Maclaren & Toyota.

First half of the season will be extremely competitive as all teams try to get to terms with the rules.I think there will be at least 4 different winners in the 1st half (MS, Kimi, JPM,FA), the fact that MS will finish 2nd in any race he does not win, coupled with the fact that he will have taken the most wins by the end of the season makes it suicidal to bet against him lifting the WDC. Also every driver will be trying to rediscover their form on a "nervous car" as a result of low downforce, overtaking will be a nightmare and a preserve for the very best - driver skills will come into play more than the car in the new season, so will be interesting to see what JV will do.

Second half will go to the team that can react best to it's first half woes, ferrari as has been their custom are best under pressure - so the bar will be raised afresh all culminating with calls to change even more rules in 2006!

[kiko01 0]

I would say about five times! JB will shock alot of people in 2005 (by under-performing!!)

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JB have shown this year he

[ksajoe 0]

JB have shown this year he

[Jem of the Shire 0]

I won't know whether or not I'm glad about Button staying at BAR until we see the performances of the Williams compared to BAR in March. I'm hoping BAR are going to stay at the front!

[ksajoe 0]

I won't know whether or not I'm glad about Button staying at BAR until we see the performances of the Williams compared to BAR in March. I'm hoping BAR are going to stay at the front!

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If they (BAR) did they would surprise even themselves. But this is F1 and anything can happen, heck - Ferrari might be chasing them in the 1st half of the season (but only for a couple of races!!).

[Shadow 0]

Personally I think it is a crying shame he could not move to Williams this season. We would have been treated to enough sparks! Can you imagine the race-within-a-race between KIMI/JMP , WEBBER/JB , TRULLI/RS , JV/MASSA - that would have been heaven. But we should still have fun!

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you left out fisi/FA. But yes JB not moving to Williams is a pity.

[kiko01 0]

Personally I think it is a crying shame he could not move to Williams this season. We would have been treated to enough sparks! Can you imagine the race-within-a-race between KIMI/JMP , WEBBER/JB , TRULLI/RS , JV/MASSA - that would have been heaven. But we should still have fun!

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I do agree KR/JPM and MW/JB sounds very well but you forget MS/RB and FA/GF. JT/RS and JV/FM sounds horrible for me, the only good among that 4 is JV

[Smoke 0]

I do agree KR/JPM and MW/JB sounds very well but you forget MS/RB and FA/GF. JT/RS and JV/FM sounds horrible for me, the only good among that 4 is JV

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If RB can step up to it, MS/RB will be a good race. He was really standing on it at the end of the year. RB needs to start ahead of MS more often to make it fair. I really don't like the qualifying rules... Since race strategy comes into play, MS is always going to be given the advantage over RB on the qualifying/starting lap fuel load.

It's going to be interesting to see how McLaren works their qual/race strategy out. I think KR got preference last year, but JPM wouldn't stand for that. Since they have to plan to pit on different laps, either they both qual with the same amount of fuel and the loser comes in with fuel in his tank, or they flip a coin to decide who's coming in first and has a 1 lap lighter fuel load for qual.

I long for the good old days when the whoever qualified best among teammates got to designate the team race strategy.

Thoughts?