Kimi Returns - So What?

[yurp 0]

A tyre is the black thing attached to the wheel, which is the magnesium alloy thing attached to the wheel hubs.

You can change the width of the wheel (rim), without changing the width of the tyre, and vice versa.

A skinny rim, with a wide tyre produces cantilever tyres - i.e. rather bulbous and over hanging the rim. This means that the tyre goes through much more lateral stress, and moves around on the rim, as you can appreciate. Hence wider rims will reduce this, and stop the tyres wandering. If the tyre is wandering then that corner of the car is stepping out of line.

So, it is correct in stating Wider Front Tyres, AND, Wider Front Wheels. Changing each will give a different feel in the car, and different response.

However, you can run cantilevered tyres, BUT you then need to adjust ride height, roll centers, bump steer, and camber etc. Case in point is on my own Formula Ford which is a 1974 Lola T340. The majority of the Lola T340's were sold into the USA where they ran slicks on the same skinny rims that UK/NZ/RSA ran narrower grooved tyres on (the Dunlop CR82). The slicks were wider and overhung the rim. Now that I race it on grooved tyres again, which are narrower, we have had to alter the suspension and swingarm/A-arm location points to re-adjust the roll center to suit. We have also widened the rims for 5" to 5.5", but still using the same tyre.

When we test / race, we go about adjusting mainly the tyre pressures, sway bar stiffness and spring preload (i.e. ride height) to dial in and out over/understeer. All of which can be observed by looking at the wear on the tyres themselves - where is the grain located, are the tyres scuffing across, is there only one hot side (or middle) etc. The goal is to achieve even graining patterns and even heat across the tyre.

And all that before we start playing with toe, bumpsteer and camber, which aid your turning ability.

Brake bias also plays a part as you don't want the back end locking up first, otherwise you will end up facing the other way - so in the wet you move the bias forward a click or two.

Weight distribution also plays it's part, but in terms of F1, they have a prescribed ballast, so that rules out playing with that.

I was joking about the wheels and tyres Craig - I know you can put fatter tyres on thinner rims - it was more of a cartoon image I had in my head for my own entertainment.

Saying that, I found your post very interesting. It makes me think I would absolutely love to spend a few days just standing with you next to a formula 1 car so that I could drink in everything you know about all this stuff. Fantastically detailed knowledge and a truly interesting/insightful post to read - I wish I knew more.

Thank you.

One thing you didn't answer though - doesn't the 'Take a different line' bit of advice mean that a car can suit one driver more than another as I described above? Even if only a little.

[HandyNZL 1]

the "Drive a different line" thing, is more about being in the car, racing, with a limited amount of adjustments at your disposal. Lower formula cars may only have sway bar (anti-roll) and brake bias available to the driver to adjust whilst actually driving the car on a track.

It is actually common sense, if you think about it, that if you approach a corner at a slightly different angle then the forces imposed on the cars corners will alter, and perhaps then you can drive around the under/oversteer.

When back in the pits, you can make a mechanical adjustment, and get back to the old line.

With F1, they have a few extra tricks up their sleeves, and as anyone will know, the drivers are always adjusting brake bias on every corner (especially MSC). As they have wings, these can be tweaked in the race via a pit stop. Some may even have ingenious little devices that a crew member can adjust to change toe in etc whilst in the pits...but with a 3-sec pit stop, I think this would not be too feasible, and they would leave it up to the guy to drive around the problem (another line).

But in general, the "drive a different line" is because you can't make wholesale changes whilst driving. So that comes down to the initial setup, and if someone has gone the worng way on their setup, then, yes, Button will have to run a different line to MSC in the same car, for example, until such time as you can make the change to the camber or toe in or whatever. It is not because the car is designed better for MSC.

In the good old days of James Hunt and co, the cars were much less complicated than today, and the factories did not have simulators to do the setup homework. In those days, there woould be an abundance of guys going off-piste as they tuned the car to "the edge", all done on feel, and changing one thing at a time, or if you were a bit smart and a gambler all in one, wholesale change three of four things at once.

Today with the simulators, the factory works out the best settings for the car, to most likely provide a car close to neutral, but on the side of under//oversteer the driver prefers. Some simply like a drifting back end (Hamilton), whilst others like a drifty front (Button). Once at the track, it is all about the tyres - reading them and getting correct heat through them...so the changes are fairly minor, and adapted solely to the drivers liking. they don't adjust each car to be identical. Driver weight plays a part in the balance of the car, so there is no way to make the cars identical as the guys themselves don't weight he same, or have their body center of mass in the same spot relative to the wheelbase.

Back when there were T-cars, these would be setup for one person only, and would be identical (or close as possible) to what the guy's race car was set to. This is why you heard at the time, "The T-car was set up for Prost, so it was a pig to drive, but we pulled through, and the team got behind me" blah blah.

I hope that goes someway to explaining the comment.

[yurp 0]

That did indeed explain a lot - thanks Craig - fascinating stuff.

And Dribs - sorry but you don't deserve the plaudits for happening upon the right answer by accident.

This comes from a person practised in the art of stumbling upon the right answer, not realising it's right and then convincing himself that it's wrong through self-deception.

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4]

A number two driver will find that the car development is making driver #1 feel more and more comfortable about the car, while #2 must adapt and can only make the setup settings needed to make the car better for himself. At first I bet the differences aren't too high, as the car's inherent characteristics aren't too close for either, but as times goes on, he might end up struggling moe and more.

.... unless your name is Rosberg..

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4]

This comes from a person practised in the art of stumbling upon the right answer, not realising it's right and then convincing himself that it's wrong through self-deception.

Like not realising you are a twatface

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4]

Back when there were T-cars, these would be setup for one person only, and would be identical (or close as possible) to what the guy's race car was set to. This is why you heard at the time, "The T-car was set up for Prost, so it was a pig to drive, but we pulled through, and the team got behind me" blah blah.

Was trying to cast my mind back if there was a situation like this where the incoming driver actually found the T-Car better....

I miss the T-Cars

[yurp 0]

Like not realising you are a twatface

Yes - precisely.

No wait...

No.

...does that mean I am?

bollocks.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Alonso pleased to see Raikkonen return

Ferrari driver Fernando Alonso says he welcomes the return of his former rival Kimi Raikkonen, who recently announced a deal to return with Lotus in 2012.

The pair have often battled on track, and in 2007 the Spaniard lost out on his third title by a single point when he was at McLaren. Raikkonen, who drove for Ferrari, won the title. Just two years later, he was replaced by Alonso.

"I welcome him back. He's a great driver" said the 30-year-old on Monday. "He's one of the drivers with the biggest talent on the grid, a world champion, a wonderful person. It's going to be a pleasure to race alongside him."

Next season will see six champions on the grid, a record number, and Alonso believes racing against drivers which have proved their worth, gives a greater feeling of satisfaction when compared to a 'young driver or rookie'.

"It's not the same to start a race and get to the first corner and have Kimi Raikkonen alongside you than having a young driver or a rookie. Fighting with champions like this gives you a different feeling and more security," he added.

Six champions in 2012: Michael Schumacher (1994, 1995, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004), Fernando Alonso (2005, 2006), Kimi Raikkonen (2007), Lewis Hamilton (2008), Jenson Button (2009), Sebastian Vettel (2010, 2011).

Nice Alonso...his words warms my heart... sometimes it seems he's capable of saying a nice thing or two

[yurp 0]

"I welcome him back. He's a great driver" said the 30-year-old on Monday. "He's one of the drivers with the biggest talent on the grid, a world champion, a wonderful person. It's going to be a pleasure to race alongside him."

"It's not the same to start a race and get to the first corner and have Kimi Raikkonen alongside you than having a young driver or a rookie. Fighting with champions like this gives you a different feeling and more security,"

Nice Alonso...his words warms my heart... sometimes it seems he's capable of saying a nice thing or two

Well he was hardly likely to say the opposite was he? "Bollocks - that morose twat is coming back. Oh well - he'll be in a Sh#theap of a car so I can say loads of nice bulls##t about him and trounce his drunken arse next year anyway - it'll make me look good, but still I can't stand the d#ck".

All the drivers will say similarly cuddly things to the press - what else are they going to do? They're all competing in the secondary F1 championship for the nicest, most sponsorable guy award - it's worth a lot of money in merchandise.

Ah bollocks - sorry to be such a cynic - perhaps I'm wrong. Alonso probably loves Kimi and they'll have a right good chin wag when his old buddy returns. I can see it now...

"Hey Kimster! How about that rallying?"

"hmmm"

"Good to see you back here old chap."

"umm"

"So I'm in your old car now."

"mm"

"And I'm beating Massa."

"m"

*long pause as Alonso starts to choke up with emotion*

".........god I missed you man!"

*Alonso bursts into tears of joy and runs off like an embarrassed little girl ashamed of his man love*

[Caesar 0]

Alonso pleased to see Raikkonen return

Ferrari driver Fernando Alonso says he welcomes the return of his former rival Kimi Raikkonen, who recently announced a deal to return with Lotus in 2012.

The pair have often battled on track, and in 2007 the Spaniard lost out on his third title by a single point when he was at McLaren. Raikkonen, who drove for Ferrari, won the title. Just two years later, he was replaced by Alonso.

"I welcome him back. He's a great driver" said the 30-year-old on Monday. "He's one of the drivers with the biggest talent on the grid, a world champion, a wonderful person. It's going to be a pleasure to race alongside him."

Next season will see six champions on the grid, a record number, and Alonso believes racing against drivers which have proved their worth, gives a greater feeling of satisfaction when compared to a 'young driver or rookie'.

"It's not the same to start a race and get to the first corner and have Kimi Raikkonen alongside you than having a young driver or a rookie. Fighting with champions like this gives you a different feeling and more security," he added.

Six champions in 2012: Michael Schumacher (1994, 1995, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004), Fernando Alonso (2005, 2006), Kimi Raikkonen (2007), Lewis Hamilton (2008), Jenson Button (2009), Sebastian Vettel (2010, 2011).

Nice Alonso...his words warms my heart... sometimes it seems he's capable of saying a nice thing or two

Ha ha, we all know that alonso knows what to say in specific situation, he is born for politics. What he really wanted to say is; who is Kimi?

[Caesar 0]

Well he was hardly likely to say the opposite was he? "Bollocks - that morose twat is coming back. Oh well - he'll be in a Sh#theap of a car so I can say loads of nice bulls##t about him and trounce his drunken arse next year anyway - it'll make me look good, but still I can't stand the d#ck".

All the drivers will say similarly cuddly things to the press - what else are they going to do? They're all competing in the secondary F1 championship for the nicest, most sponsorable guy award - it's worth a lot of money in merchandise.

Ah bollocks - sorry to be such a cynic - perhaps I'm wrong. Alonso probably loves Kimi and they'll have a right good chin wag when his old buddy returns. I can see it now...

"Hey Kimster! How about that rallying?"

"hmmm"

"Good to see you back here old chap."

"umm"

"So I'm in your old car now."

"mm"

"And I'm beating Massa."

"m"

*long pause as Alonso starts to choke up with emotion*

".........god I missed you man!"

*Alonso bursts into tears of joy and runs off like an embarrassed little girl ashamed of his man love*

funny that alonso divorced when kimi came back. Does this makes him a bit gay?

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Well he was hardly likely to say the opposite was he? "Bollocks - that morose twat is coming back. Oh well - he'll be in a Sh#theap of a car so I can say loads of nice bulls##t about him and trounce his drunken arse next year anyway - it'll make me look good, but still I can't stand the d#ck".

All the drivers will say similarly cuddly things to the press - what else are they going to do? They're all competing in the secondary F1 championship for the nicest, most sponsorable guy award - it's worth a lot of money in merchandise.

Ah bollocks - sorry to be such a cynic - perhaps I'm wrong. Alonso probably loves Kimi and they'll have a right good chin wag when his old buddy returns. I can see it now...

"Hey Kimster! How about that rallying?"

"hmmm"

"Good to see you back here old chap."

"umm"

"So I'm in your old car now."

"mm"

"And I'm beating Massa."

"m"

*long pause as Alonso starts to choke up with emotion*

".........god I missed you man!"

*Alonso bursts into tears of joy and runs off like an embarrassed little girl ashamed of his man love*

Anything to adhere me to the guy

They have had a fairly respectful relationship, so I think the comments are geniune....

[yurp 0]

Anything to adhere me to the guy

glue? sticky tape? a drawing pin? - you have other options.

[Rainmaster 7]

I think Alonso and Kimi always had respect for each other, PR aside.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

There's something very diffrent with Kimi's return to F1... he's also more open to the media etc etc...

[Negative Ions 0]

There's something very diffrent with Kimi's return to F1... he's also more open to the media etc etc...

Hes a bit older, hes seen the grass isn't always greener on the other side, hes had time to get away from racing for the first time in his life, and hes probably more comfortable with himself as a man as he enters his 30s.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Hes a bit older, hes seen the grass isn't always greener on the other side, hes had time to get away from racing for the first time in his life, and hes probably more comfortable with himself as a man as he enters his 30s.

which mens he'll also be more serious about his racing....and win 2 more world titles.... lovely stuff!

[forzaferrari 0]

I hope Kimi has a good season with lotus.

[Massa 0]

I hope you have a good season with us. Welcome.

[Quiet One 15]

I hope you have a good season with us. Welcome.

Why, thank you!

[Negative Ions 0]

Its funny to read all these articles and expressions of opinion from old drivers and experts etc about how Kimi will struggle to adjust to F1 again. I call bs. Hes fast, full stop, he was fast off the bat at the start of his career in F1, he didnt have to adjust then, and he wont have to adjust now. hes not over the hill yet, unlike Schumaker.

[Caesar 0]

Its funny to read all these articles and expressions of opinion from old drivers and experts etc about how Kimi will struggle to adjust to F1 again. I call bs. Hes fast, full stop, he was fast off the bat at the start of his career in F1, he didnt have to adjust then, and he wont have to adjust now. hes not over the hill yet, unlike Schumaker.

agree with you about kimi, still he will have to learn to use Pirelli's and DRS in qualy.about schumacher, i have found comparison of all f1 cars driving through chicane during Australian GP 2011 on youtube.RB7 holds race line as it was on railway tracks, using full throttle in 6th gear. merc and other cars arent so impressive.RB7 drives through that corner at least 20 km/h faster than other car and believe me it's not because of the driver.i would love to see schumacher in RB7.

[Caesar 0]

another comparison. i think that there is more predator instinct in old schumi than young vettel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zj5WKP0kjEk&feature=related

[Massa 0]

I'm personally curious to see how Räikkönen does for the perspective it provides on Schumacher. Does F1 just move on too quickly to be away from it, or is Schumacher past it? I know that's not an exact science, but seeing someone else make a comeback to modern F1 has to help settle any discussion of Schumacher.

[HandyNZL 1]

I'm personally curious to see how Räikkönen does for the perspective it provides on Schumacher. Does F1 just move on too quickly to be away from it, or is Schumacher past it? I know that's not an exact science, but seeing someone else make a comeback to modern F1 has to help settle any discussion of Schumacher.

That, is a very good point, and one I did not think of, though one I shall claim when talking to people at the racetrack...hehe It's not plagiarism if I don't write it down, right????