KoolMonkey 0 Report post Posted February 4, 2012 After seeing the 3rd team present their 2012 car, I'm left wondering and not for the first time just how secrets are kept in F1. I find it odd that teams can come up with evolutions or revolutions at the exact same time. For real, how is this possible. Do the FIA leak designs to other teams or 3rd parties, do the teams actually share info? is it the Kool-Aid they are drinking? 3 teams came up with the double diffuser at the same time as well. I think only one came up with the F-duct however. But it baffles me to the point that I'm getting suspicious of all this. This new drooped nose look is fugly. Yet 3 teams now have all released their new 2012 chargers looking pretty much the same. Now why is that I wonder. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Caesar 0 Report post Posted February 4, 2012 After seeing the 3rd team present their 2012 car, I'm left wondering and not for the first time just how secrets are kept in F1. I find it odd that teams can come up with evolutions or revolutions at the exact same time. For real, how is this possible. Do the FIA leak designs to other teams or 3rd parties, do the teams actually share info? is it the Kool-Aid they are drinking? 3 teams came up with the double diffuser at the same time as well. I think only one came up with the F-duct however. But it baffles me to the point that I'm getting suspicious of all this. This new drooped nose look is fugly. Yet 3 teams now have all released their new 2012 chargers looking pretty much the same. Now why is that I wonder. scarbs made drawing of that nose too. two months ago. rules are same many years now, and teams just modified their designing concepts to new rules. mclaren didn't have to masacre their nose cause it was low enough in 2011. the rest decided to masacre, at least for now.we will se what wil lotus, redbull and merc do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Piotr 0 Report post Posted February 4, 2012 That's funny. I just had a very simialr discussion at my office (there are 3 of us weirdos who care more about actual sports then who is going to be a defensive coordinator for some local football team). The conclusiuons were very similar. It's either a conspiracy, good spies, or an evolutionary adaptation to new regs. personally, I think its a bit of all three. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rainmaster 7 Report post Posted February 4, 2012 Well, designing a car is an objective thing, based on simulations, wind tunnel numbers, etc, a design is either fast or not. So there are only so many ways of doing it, if you want a fast car. When you introduce tight regulations, you are left with only a choice of a couple of avenues of development in each area of the car. Furthermore, the fact all these people are using the same tools and design equipment and so on, and have similar levels of knowledge and experience, etc, it doesn't seem odd at all to me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Quiet One 15 Report post Posted February 4, 2012 Plus, F1 is a rather small family with the same names carousselling around the same teams. In the end, each guy knows a gazillion guys in the other teams, former members of his crew. It's not too hard to make a call to "the old pals" and find out what are they up to, despite the severe anti espionage policies. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4 Report post Posted February 4, 2012 I flew back on a plane from Brazil once, post race and it was full of mechanics all wearing their team outfits. Very obvious they all knew each other as there was so much banter going on between them So the thought that anything could be kept secret is probably unlikely. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dribbler 6 Report post Posted February 4, 2012 There are commonly understood performance parameters in F1 car design. Witht the new nose/wing height regulations there are effectively two choices, the step nose or the gradula nose(a la McLaren). No conspriacy, just a commonly understood choice based on the regulations. There simply isn't the scope for too many different design languages. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KoolMonkey 0 Report post Posted February 4, 2012 If there are a tight set of regulations, it still doesn't mean we should be ending up with virtually all teams having the same interpretations. Otherwise how do you explain the "Walrus". Some secrets can obviously be kept, other innovations are not so evident like the RBR ride height and flexing wing dealio. It seems the golden rule in F1 is if you can't copy an idea, moan to the FIA to get it deemed illegal. Ferrari are notorious for this, acting like they somehow have had honest integrity all along. There has to be more to this that it simply being regulations, and each team interprets them the same, designs their car the same and so forth. Secondly despite their being the most optimal way to design a car for greatest aero, it doesn't mean each and every team can achieve this concurrently. I'm not so much talking about the noses of this years cars as that is a visual thing. But even then these cars were designed up to a year ago, so how on earth can all teams thus far other than McLaren come up with the same design. But what bothers me more was the double diffuser and how Brawn, Toyota and Williams wasn't it? had all figured it out at the same time. The only innovation of late that seemed to be confined to one team in the beginning was the F-duct. All other recent ones have been in tandem or been deployed with multiple teams. Thus I think there is a mixture of spying, sharing and backhanded notes being passed around. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rainmaster 7 Report post Posted February 4, 2012 If there are a tight set of regulations, it still doesn't mean we should be ending up with virtually all teams having the same interpretations. Otherwise how do you explain the "Walrus". Some secrets can obviously be kept, other innovations are not so evident like the RBR ride height and flexing wing dealio. It seems the golden rule in F1 is if you can't copy an idea, moan to the FIA to get it deemed illegal. Ferrari are notorious for this, acting like they somehow have had honest integrity all along. There has to be more to this that it simply being regulations, and each team interprets them the same, designs their car the same and so forth. Secondly despite their being the most optimal way to design a car for greatest aero, it doesn't mean each and every team can achieve this concurrently. I'm not so much talking about the noses of this years cars as that is a visual thing. But even then these cars were designed up to a year ago, so how on earth can all teams thus far other than McLaren come up with the same design. But what bothers me more was the double diffuser and how Brawn, Toyota and Williams wasn't it? had all figured it out at the same time. The only innovation of late that seemed to be confined to one team in the beginning was the F-duct. All other recent ones have been in tandem or been deployed with multiple teams. Thus I think there is a mixture of spying, sharing and backhanded notes being passed around. To a point, that may happen. But different people working towards the same (objective) goal are always likely to find a similar or the same way of doing things, whether information is exchanged or not*. If the goal is a scientific one with only certain means of achieving it (like designing an F1 car to an incredibly specific set of regulations), that will always happen. *Consider that many inventions/solutions to problems were developed thousands of miles apart, at almost exactly the same time (before modern communication technology to exchange information). Why is it the case? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Caesar 0 Report post Posted February 4, 2012 i think that this thread is FIA conspiracy to diminish the importance of their 'duck-nose' conspiracy by going public with it and diverting us from asking questions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Delta 0 Report post Posted February 5, 2012 Most of the teams have admitted that the aerodynamic effect of the nose is practically nothing. Besides, teams don't actually present their designs to the FIA, the first the FIA know of their design is when scrutineering checks are first performed? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KoolMonkey 0 Report post Posted February 5, 2012 Hmm so that rules out a possible mole or double agent for the highest price embedded in the FIA then. But the Ferrari insider / dublous dublous le secret agente spy is still in place I'm sure lol Good on McLaren for making a car that looks nice. I still loath the newer wide front wings and the small useless rear wings we've had these past few years. The cars just look horrible. Why can't we have cars that look good again? Was never a race winner, but it wasn't ugly either, and most important, the proportions were pleasing to the eye. It was simple, free of all the gizmos and crapola addons on the front wing, and minimal aero bits towards the rear. I thought they introduced some rules a few years back to remove all the aero bits and pieces, and clean up the air behind the cars to make following easier. It had to happen after seeing absurb and silly attempts like this... Hopefully RBR will have a nice looking car, and Renault as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Insider 0 Report post Posted February 5, 2012 There are commonly understood performance parameters in F1 car design. Witht the new nose/wing height regulations there are effectively two choices, the step nose or the gradula nose(a la McLaren). No conspriacy, just a commonly understood choice based on the regulations. There simply isn't the scope for too many different design languages. That's about it plus there is a constant reshuffle of design and aero staffers between teams, year on year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
