Future F1 Calendar

[JHS18 0]

Whilst it'd be great to have the French GP back, a shame they can't find a track better than Paul Ricard for it. It's not exactly the most visually appealing track with virtually no elevation changes and miles and miles of boring run off zones with no sight of a gravel trap. My overriding memory of watching races at Ricard is blue. Blue everywhere. Hypnotising blue...

Whatever happened to the talk a couple of years ago Tilke was designing a new facility for the French GP return? Even before that there was talk of a Paris street race.

[Massa 0]

I'm sure not building the track has absolutely nothing to do with money. The European economy is just looking wonderful.

Street race in Paris? Never was going to happen. Just like a street race in NYC or London. It just doesn't make economic sense to close the streets for a race, so they'll never do it. A street race vaguely near Paris? Maybe. But I'm not sure I'd really want one over Paul Ricard, if it were designed by Tilke. I've seen some good street circuits in my life (Las Vegas Champ Car in 2007, the Phoenix track they never ran in CCWS was really cool too...and no, neither was anything close to the old Vegas/CART parking lot track or the Phoenix right-angle Grand Prix. Long Beach is special, puts on a great show with sports cars. Didn't mind Denver for Champ Cars, and don't get me started on airport circuits again... ), but Tilke never had anything to do with them.

That said, I don't evaluate Weehawken, because I'm going to it if it happens, so I'd just be biased going on and on about how wonderful it is, and I don't want to do that because I have, on more than one occasion, said that if Silverstone were built in Saudi Arabia in 2005 instea you'd all talk about how crap of a track it was. I'd be the same way if Weehawken were in New York, let alone another country. Love my Jersey wasteland.

[JHS18 0]

Just wondered if Ricard is still owned by Ecclestone?

[HandyNZL 1]

What isn't?

[Massa 0]

This is the Circuit of the Americas. The largest building in Elroy, TX has been completed.

This is the worst article ever written:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/new-cars/motorsports/f1-attempts-to-win-over-us-fans-with-texas-comeback/article2366638/?utm_medium=Feeds%3A%20RSS%2FAtom&utm_source=Home&utm_content=2366638

Problems:

1) NASCAR has about 7,000,000 viewers per race. 40,000,000 hardcore fans? I'd have a hard time envisioning combinations of 33,000,000 "hardcore" fans skipping each and every race.

2) DuPont has not sponsored every race Jeff Gordon has driven. They aren't even his main sponsor this year (or last year).

3) Spelling, grammar, typos. MMontoya for example. Mmm. Montoya. Doesn't work.

Anyway, I dig and dig and dig for news about New Jersey and never find anyone. I'd be curious on Gordon's analysis of those "variables." Gordon has been involved in building a track: the Canadian Motor Speedway in Fort Erie. Never heard of it? That's because it never got built, and never is going to get built, despite the fact they would "have Indy and NASCAR races by 2010." So he knows a thing or two about how to not make things work and I think it's a very different view to say it's harder to put on that street race than to build a circuit from scratch on government money, and I'd like to know why he thinks that because he probably has an interesting take.

I think Montoya's a moron. F1 and NASCAR attract different people. The "play NASCAR's game and play it worse than NASCAR does" strategy of selling super niche racing (a niche sport as it is) to Americans has never worked and never will work. If you want NASCAR, you do NASCAR, you don't look at cheap NASCAR imitations.

It's this mentality that gives me no faith there will ever be a long-lasting USGP. No one understands anything.

For a laugh, fact-check this article. Even Mario Andretti is clueless. Two USGPs for the first time? Uh...there were three at one time...

http://www.cnbc.com/id/46746843

This is all I can find from Jersey. It's from November 2011.

I am glad it's quiet, I guess. At least no one is suing anyone yet.

[Massa 0]

Actually, now I see why Montoya wants F1 to copy NASCAR...

"MEATS: TASTE THE EXCITEMENT" might be the best thing I've ever read in my life. Ecclestone's missing out on this lucrative opportunity for F1 turkey jerky.

[Massa 0]

Wild Bubba believes Elroy, TX is going to take off any day now (this Wild Bubba guy has gotten more press than anyone else in F1 all year):

http://www.statesman.com/news/local/development-sluggish-around-f1-track-2276556.html

Not really surprising that there isn't much confidence in building near the track. You just can't speculate on the Grand Prix doing anything for Elroy.

They also want more government help. Something about McAngus Road. What a name...

http://www.statesman.com/sports/formula1/circuit-of-the-americas-seeks-assistance-from-travis-2286326.html

[Massa 0]

Why the delay on announcing the French Grand Prix?

Apparently they haven't finalized a track.

http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-ligier-pushing-magny-cours-as-french-gp-host/

[Massa 0]

That Argentina street race is believed to be replacing the Korean Grand Prix in 2013.

I love this news. Takes a race that's on at 2 or 3 AM and gives one that would be on in the afternoon. Perfect.

[dribbler 6]

Why the delay on announcing the French Grand Prix?

Apparently they haven't finalized a track.

http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-ligier-pushing-magny-cours-as-french-gp-host/

Some people think Magny Cours was boring but personally I used to really enjoy it. It has seen some action over the years, notably Kim and Michael in 2002, and Coulthard's one finger salute to Michael.

[Massa 0]

Elroy, TX is offering their personal seating licenses and season tickets now:

No wonder they need taxpayer money; no one's paying them voluntarily.

[JHS18 0]

Some people think Magny Cours was boring but personally I used to really enjoy it. It has seen some action over the years, notably Kim and Michael in 2002, and Coulthard's one finger salute to Michael.

I'll echo that. I always liked the track. And if being in the middle of nowhere was counting against it, why the heck was the South Korean circuit ever built then?

[HandyNZL 1]

To get one over North Korea......like, duh!

[Massa 0]

I think Magny-Cours is one of those hindsight things. No one was saying they liked the track until they saw Valencia etc. in the subsequent years.

What's happening in the real middle of nowhere: Elroy, TX?

Well:

$6750 maximum for a PSL and season ticket (V8 Supercars in 2013 included with the 2012 Grand Prix). That's $366.67 per year for the seating license (guarantees the seat for fifteen years), plus $1250 per year to have that seat at every event held at COTA. $625 per race for the first year. Of course that's the high end. Individual, normal ticket sales will likely be in the $300-$600 range. NASCAR seats max out at $250 per seat, which includes meals, private restrooms, a view of the entire track, pre-race pit road/fan area access (not actual garage access; that's separate and usually you need to know someone on a team to get that, same with hot passes to be in the pits for the actual race), and a race that lasts three or four hours compared to F1's ninety minutes. There will be no support races for the United States Grand Prix. Seriously. Not a single one. No idea what general admission to sit on dirt mounds will be; the article mentions it's about $125 at Montréal, which is a massive ripoff. You can't see anything but trees if you do GA at Montréal. $125, might pay that to sit in the T1/T2 grandstand, but only at the very top, great view if you're up top in that grandstand, great by F1/road course standards at least. But that'd run, what, $500, and at Austin, there won't be views like that because the track, assuming it gets built, is too big. But none of that matters, every individual can make their own decision and if I go to New Jersey, it will cost $360 to look at buildings and catch-fencing and maybe possibly hear the cars.

So how are sales going? 11,000 were on the waiting list and are now being solicited. 90% U.S. Americans, 10% international. 39% Texan. [1, for both paragraphs]

Paul Mitchell and Tequila Patrón guy John Paul DeJoria has invested in the project. [2] He has been largely involved in ALMS, though there will not be an ALMS race at the track (yet). He would also like to see drag racing (his daughter does drag racing) added to COTA. [3] This is a really positive development for the track, I think.

Construction...is happening. [4]

It's also a political issue now. I guess F1 should abstain from coming here. The comments on the article are interesting. [5]

Bobby Epstein wants arbitration. Tavo Hellmund wants a public hearing. Draw your own conclusions. [6]

And best for last...the power struggle: Hellmund/Full Throttle want to buy out Red McCombs. Red McCombs has the option to buy them out instead. [7]

Links to all this information:

[1] http://www.statesman.com/sports/formula1/f1-track-selling-seats-for-as-much-as-2303252.html

[2] http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/racing/entries/2012/04/10/haircare_tequila_magnate_john.html?cxntfid=blogs_formula_austin

[3] http://www.statesman.com/sports/formula1/new-investor-dejoria-helps-wish-f1-in-austin-2300962.html

[4] http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/racing/entries/2012/04/12/austin_circuit_officials_celeb.html?cxntfid=blogs_formula_austin

[5] http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/racing/entries/2012/04/10/county_commissioners_still_hav.html?cxntfid=blogs_formula_austin

[6] http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/racing/entries/2012/04/09/in_march_racing_promoter_tavo.html?cxntfid=blogs_formula_austin

[7] http://www.statesman.com/sports/formula1/mccombs-hellmund-square-off-over-f1-track-shares-2298638.html

My personal conclusions: I have no idea if this is going to happen or not. If it does, I am still convinced it will not be anything close to successful.

[Massa 0]

Ecclestone is unsure if New Jersey will be in 2013 or 2014 (quit calling it New York, that really bothers me, the race is in New Jersey, it is New Jersey's race and I am sick and tired of New Jersey being treated like it's some second-rate nuclear waste dump for New York even if it is, Jersey pride always and forever). Also mentions that the French Grand Prix is likely to be at Paul Ricard and alternate with Spa. Argentina would have to replace an existing race (if Valencia and Barcelona alternate, that would open something up).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/17738493

[Massa 0]

Someone made a model of the Argentina circuit and simulated it. I don't know how accurate it really is. The track gets a lot more interesting, I think, around that impossibly tight Surfers' Paradise-style diversion (less of a corner honestly, more of just insanity in an F1 car) and beyond. Obviously I'd want to see the real thing and all that before judging. It has moments of originality, though, if it's accurate.

There's apparently a rumor about a Red Bull-backed race in Thailand. Obviously not for 2013. I'll believe it when I see it.

[Jack Acid 0]

I was really hoping to see the US GP in Austin this year (I have 2 good friends that live there) but there is no way I'm paying $500+ for a ticket. Just no way, especially because of other travel expenses that would be involved.

[Massa 0]

Current prices are season tickets (F1 and V8 Supercars for now, would later include music events and MotoGP, I believe) and personal seating licenses, which reserve those seats for fifteen years.

This summer, normal tickets (a ticket just for the 2012 United States Grand Prix and nothing more; I assume that's a weekend ticket of course but I have no idea how F1 ticketing works) will be available. As low as $125 anticipated for general admission (sitting on dirt, peeing in the woods), probably around $250-$300 to get one of the less-demanded seats.

Still very expensive, of course, compared to a whole of other sporting events one could attend, but it won't quite be $500 unless you are truly in the market for a season ticket or want one of the best views (which one would presumably want if he/she could afford it).

We were planning to go to New Jersey in 2013 (or 2014, depending on when it debuts) but decided not to when discussing future vacation plans the other day given the poor value (New Jersey estimated $360, and estimates always increase just in time for reality) of not being able to see much of anything at a street circuit.

On the bright side, with you being in California, if you don't go to Austin, it will at least be a race that isn't being televised at 5 AM.

[Jack Acid 0]

Current prices are season tickets (F1 and V8 Supercars for now, would later include music events and MotoGP, I believe) and personal seating licenses, which reserve those seats for fifteen years.

This summer, normal tickets (a ticket just for the 2012 United States Grand Prix and nothing more; I assume that's a weekend ticket of course but I have no idea how F1 ticketing works) will be available. As low as $125 anticipated for general admission (sitting on dirt, peeing in the woods), probably around $250-$300 to get one of the less-demanded seats.

Still very expensive, of course, compared to a whole of other sporting events one could attend, but it won't quite be $500 unless you are truly in the market for a season ticket or want one of the best views (which one would presumably want if he/she could afford it).

We were planning to go to New Jersey in 2013 (or 2014, depending on when it debuts) but decided not to when discussing future vacation plans the other day given the poor value (New Jersey estimated $360, and estimates always increase just in time for reality) of not being able to see much of anything at a street circuit.

On the bright side, with you being in California, if you don't go to Austin, it will at least be a race that isn't being televised at 5 AM.

Thanks again mate. I'd plunk $125 for a ticket, that is much more manageable as an annual event expense. I'd have a free place to stay, so it's really air fare and the admission. Glad to hear the initial numbers I heard are not the final totals, will have to look into it closer to then. I don't believe tickets are even on sale yet.

And yes, looking forward to a "normal" start time!

[Massa 0]

Saw some construction photos from the track in Weehawken/West New York, NJ. Pit/paddock building isn't far behind the one in Elroy.

I wish Ecclestone would have elaborated on what is causing him concerns. I'm assuming, 100% honestly, the thing is funded at least in part by mafia money, which I'd actually think would be reliable.

[The Shadow 0]

I wonder what would happen if we had an oval race in F1. Say Indy? Or maybe the old circuit in Monza?

[Massa 0]

It's an interesting idea, but...

F1 cars are not designed for close-range, high-speed impact (not much is; IndyCar still has a spotty record on ovals...basically the only thing you can drive on an oval is a tank of a stock car). So you'd have a major safety issue. They don't have so much run-off room to make it easier for the drivers to make mistakes; they have it because these cars can't go this fast that close to barriers. Look at the races at Indy on the road course; drivers had crashes in the oval section and were injured. Not knocking F1's safety, but the tracks play as much of a role as the cars do.

Beyond that, they'd need to completely redesign the cars for performance. Very expensive.

And then you'd run into one final factor: it would be terribly boring. Oval racing is exciting when 1) the cars look like they are on the absolute edge and/or 2) the drivers are racing each other. F1 cars handle too well to look like they are on the absolute edge and the racing wouldn't be particularly close (you couldn't really do DRS on a speedway, either, it would just be insane).

That doesn't mean there are great speedways out there; you guys know I enjoy oval racing quite a bit, and wish tracks like Rockingham (UK) and Lausitz (Germany) could be updated with SAFER barriers and used for something, same with Phakisa in South Africa or Calder Park in Australia or the now defunct Rio oval in Brazil, all five of which were horribly unsafe to begin with. But it's not F1's place.

What you could theoretically do, that they will never do, is take the Burke Lakefront Airport where they used to race Champ Cars in Cleveland...you can make a 1.54 mile oval circuit on that track (four corners, four straights...basically a rectangle like Indy). You can only do that because the airport itself is very, very, very wide, the braking for the corners would be immense, and, being an airport, the run-off room is sufficient. They'll obviously never, ever, ever do that but it would be about the only thing they could do.

[The Shadow 0]

It's an interesting idea, but...

What you could theoretically do, that they will never do, is take the Burke Lakefront Airport where they used to race Champ Cars in Cleveland...you can make a 1.54 mile oval circuit on that track (four corners, four straights...basically a rectangle like Indy). You can only do that because the airport itself is very, very, very wide, the braking for the corners would be immense, and, being an airport, the run-off room is sufficient. They'll obviously never, ever, ever do that but it would be about the only thing they could do.

That would be a good solution. At least it would appeal to those who like oval racing. Interesting thought experiment

[Massa 0]

Interestingly enough, though a bit off-topic, FISA were asked in the early 90s about sanctioning an international, all-oval formula car series including the Indianapolis 500 (the proposal came from Tony George). It was to follow the "Disney World" concept, where you have Walt Disney World (the Indy 500), Euro Disney, Tokyo Disney, etc. Essentially a series of a lot of "Indy 500s" being run all over the world. Sort of an all-oval F1 was being planned. FISA and Ecclestone didn't really understand the proposal and decided against doing it; George then went into an entirely different direction with a low-cost, all-American, all-oval series catering to young American oval racers...it did one of those four things...until 2005.

Anyway, it's appearing as though Red McCombs is leaning toward not selling his shares to Tavo Hellmund. This means he would buy out all of Tavo Hellmund's shares, I believe. Hellmund is Bernie Ecclestone's buddy and the only reason this really happened (Hellmund was to be in charge of the New Jersey race for Ecclestone, but did this instead). It will be interesting to see how quickly 1) Ecclestone stops caring about Austin, which isn't his little project like the New Jersey race and only got the green-light for Tavo and 2) Ecclestone forces New Jersey to take on Hellmund as a promoter.

You know, if two is actually about to come true, I think I now know why Ecclestone says the Jersey race may be postponed until 2014. He knows that Hellmund is headed over there and if he does a job like he's done with Austin...

That aside, Leo Hindery, Jr. (YES Network, Jersey guy) is giving the generic "we're fine blah blah blah" stuff. Which means they're behind schedule and it's never going to happen and all that.

Maybe.

[Massa 0]

Ecclestone: Paul Ricard is on for 2013, Spa will alternate with it. Ecclestone is truly wonderful at what he does, and I say that sincerely. Anyone who can create a situation such that tracks sign on to be part of his calendar even when they know they are going to lose money (every race is losing money, every single one, no matter what) is just brilliantly clever. I'm assuming the losses are even worse for the tracks if they don't run the races, and Ecclestone knows that. He's intelligent. I hope he retires soon and his heir isn't as intelligent.

Ecclestone also says they will return to Bahrain next year.

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/277769/ecclestone-confirms-f1-s-return-to-france/

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/277757/ecclestone-f1-will-be-back-in-bahrain/

With the confirmation that Spa is not on the calendar for 2013, now just Suzuka and Marina Bay remain to sign to a new contract. All other 2012 races are contracted for 2013 (which doesn't mean they will be running them; Valencia and Yeongam being obvious doubts, and the contracted Weehawken race has had its stuff).