Replacing Massa

[Quiet One 15]

By the way, has anyone mentioned Adrian Sutil? Will I be allowed to show my face in public again if I suggest they look at him?

You can keep showing your face in public as long as you don't mind everybody scrambling around like in those old "Monster attacks Tokyo" movies.

As for Sutil, he was brought up many times. I have no clue why excpt that people ran out of names. The guy never showed anything beyond an acceptable level of performance. He might have been the next Senna or he might have been the next Senna (the other one) for all we know. What we are pretty sure, though, is that he might have been the next Son of Sam, and for that he is just not worth it. Whatever he has shown so far is the same Heidfeld or Alguersuari did.

As a plus, he hates Lewis with a vengeance so he might be worth having around for intimidation purposes...

[dribbler 6]

Hmm. Here we go. Juan Pablo Montoya?

He wouldn't fit in there. Or anywhere else, for that matter.

Fat chance.

[Massa 0]

You can keep showing your face in public as long as you don't mind everybody scrambling around like in those old "Monster attacks Tokyo" movies.

As for Sutil, he was brought up many times. I have no clue why excpt that people ran out of names. The guy never showed anything beyond an acceptable level of performance. He might have been the next Senna or he might have been the next Senna (the other one) for all we know. What we are pretty sure, though, is that he might have been the next Son of Sam, and for that he is just not worth it. Whatever he has shown so far is the same Heidfeld or Alguersuari did.

As a plus, he hates Lewis with a vengeance so he might be worth having around for intimidation purposes...

One rumor, not sure how credible it is, says Sutil will return to Force India and Hülkenberg will go to Ferrari. I guess Sutil and his manager were in the Force India camp a lot during the Spanish Grand Prix weekend; Sutil admitted it himself.

Could also be Paul di Resta moving on, though I'd doubt that, especially with Mercedes saying he's on the radar: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99742

[Quiet One 15]

How much does each driver get paid?

http://www.thef1time...s/display/06127

Massa earns as much as Webber and Vettel. Ain't it fun? Well, at least if you are not Webber, or Vettel.

For his price, you could get a Schumi/Grosjean combo lotsa bang for the buck or hire the bottom 14 (!) drivers together which means all except for the top ten and you still will save some cash.

And we applaud him for finishing 6th at Monaco??

[Massa 0]

I'm more concerned with how much someone got paid to "write" the related article on the "New York GP." They plagiarized word-for-word an article I read months ago and published it yesterday...unoriginal and late. On top of that, the race is in Weehawken and West New York, neither of which are ever referred to as New York city, and are in New Jersey, which is never referred to as New York state.

The only thing I care about concerning Massa's salary? That he'll outprice himself out of a 2013 ride if/when Ferrari cut him. Other than that, good for him, good for all of them, they're all doing well for themselves financially while doing something they like doing and always wanted to do. I'd wish that for anyone.

We can say he's overpaid, but Massa's contract wasn't made with the expectation of him winning the championship...they're paying that kind of money to the guy who has deliver a grand total of zero of those for them. Both drivers need to be replaced.

[apexhead 0]

IMO, Webber or Kubica would be perfect for pairing with Alonso. Lewis is obviously out of the question and I just can't see Red Bull letting Vettel go.

[JHS18 0]

Kubica? I can't see that in a million years.

Hamilton, it depresses me to say, I could see happening. I've seen it be argued more and more recently that Alonso never really had a problem with Hamilton, he had a problem with Ron Dennis. I think there's truth to that. Okay, Alonso and Hamilton probably aren't the best friends around, but there's mutual respect. You hear Hamilton complementing Alonso, you hear Alonso complementing Hamilton. They sure don't hate each other's guts like Senna and Prost did, however keen the media is to portray it like that. I personally think the whole Hamilton/Alonso frenzy was blown up massively by the media in 2007 anyway, knowing what we know now.

I remember when Alonso was confirmed as a Ferrari driver and there was the whole debate about whether him and Massa would get on because they argued after the German GP in '07 blah blah blah, but it has turned out to be nonsense. Has there been a major falling out between the two? Nope. I doubt there would be a major falling out between Alonso or Hamilton this time either.

It's an unlikely situation, but I think it is more likely than some people are saying.

[Massa 0]

It ain't what Big Nando wants. It's about what Lewis wants and it can't be this.

I don't think Lewis will have a problem working with Fernando, and I don't think Fernando will have a problem working with Lewis, but I don't think that plays into the decision at all. Do Ferrari want two number one drivers? They've never structured their team like that in the years I've watched. Even when you had Massa and Räikkönen, they always favored one clearly, even though both were obviously capable of delivering good performances at the time (and we could open the whole Räikkönen was better and should have been backed argument, because he probably was, and certainly is). I don't see how Hamilton would think at any point that being at Ferrari is a better situation than McLaren. McLaren has management issues, wait til you see Ferrari, pal. No better; probably worse, and if the tires are more "normal" next year, I'd hate to see the results Ferrari get if they don't improve on this one. That's maybe the only downside to this season; Ferrari will start thinking they're good and not change anything.

I don't think Hamilton would want Ferrari, not at all, over McLaren. I don't really know why Ferrari would want Hamilton, either, when their team hasn't seemed to be "get the best two drivers out there" in the years I'm familiar with. It's always have someone great and someone good (not saying the results always back that up but on paper Alonso is great and Massa is good).

It would eventually be Kubica if Kubica ever returns at 100% performance. There is nothing anyone on this forum can really say about whether or not that will happen, though, and I'm just going to assume if he returns, it will be elsewhere and then he'd go to Ferrari if it went well. But that's pure made-up crap guessing on my part.

SparkNotes: It's Webber or it's Pérez.

[Quiet One 15]

Lots of reports (or, more probably, the same report being repeated over and over again in different websites) that Lewis is seriously considering leaving his Macca cocoon (they say "even before end of season", although I think that would be a little bit too much, even for a rumour). The rumour also says that Macca has already contacted Di Resta (managed by Hamilton Sr, nonethless) to replace Lewis.

Jokes and snide comments aside, I think it would be stupid from Macca to let their best asset to walk out or trying to keep him around merely by pouring bucketloads of money on his head. Button is good, he is nice and probably a lot easier to work with. But I am not so sure he can galvanize the team behind him the way Lewis did (entirely my subjective perception, granted).

As for dropping bucketloads of money <insert joke about dropping things on Lewis head at Monaco here>. He is not after money. He has that stupid Lewis brand and all that stuff to take care of that. He wants to WIN. I am not sure which other team can give him any more assurances, but with the current level of (mis)management at McLaren I guess at least a couple would be able to give him as much confidence with the added value of being a fresh enviroment, and perhaps more freedom to sell his next music album/pubic hair remover/canary food or whatever he plans to sell.

it all depends if he wants the more conservative "let's stay at Macca, they have to get it right sooner or later" which is probably true, or "I'd risk a Alonso back to Renault move than having to endure another year here". In any case, I don't think cold numbers will tell the whole story here.

Personally, I would like to see him in another competitive team, RBR or even Ferrari (yeah, as if...) just because I am sure it will have a huge impact on his behavior and it will be great to see a new version of Hamilton. He loves to compare himself to Senna but he has so far shown very little except for lots of potential. Its about time for him to release it and if McLaren is not the proper enviroment perhaps another team will make his expectations come true? (I will eat my own hat and any other hat you might provide if he actually performs at something even remotely close to that level)

[Argento Reloaded 1]

Next year we´ll see lot of driver moves... Webber, Hamilton, Massa and Schumi won´t reamin at their current teams and will begin the shake of the entire grid

[Quiet One 15]

Next year we´ll see lot of driver moves... Webber, Hamilton, Massa and Schumi won´t reamin at their current teams and will begin the shake of the entire grid

I think the next question is, who will kickstart the big migration of drivers? I think it will all start with C.Pic being kicked off from Marussia or, probably, left behind at some track without anybody noticing he is around no more.

[Massa 0]

If Hamilton bases his decision on wanting to win, the teams need to figure out how to win more predictably. If the tires don't change, I'm signing with whichever of Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren, Merceds, or Lotus offers me the most money because this might be the first time I've ever seen the driver not in the best car (Alonso in the Ferrari) be a serious title contender. The tires make winning hard to determine, but money's guaranteed. I'll take good enough for a lot of cash if the tires are this way next year...

Obviously, I'm not Hamilton, but there's no such thing as "the best possible team" anymore in terms of winning. Not with these rules, and I enjoy that of course. It just makes it impossible to know who to sign with if performance is your huge goal.

As for McLaren contacting di Resta...I somehow feel as though Mercedes politics are going to get in the way there, especially if McLaren are looking around for 2014 (as the Honda rumors indicate they may be). They aren't going to invest so much in a driver only to let the supplied team get him over the supplier.

[Quiet One 15]

If Hamilton bases his decision on wanting to win, the teams need to figure out how to win more predictably. If the tires don't change, I'm signing with whichever of Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren, Merceds, or Lotus offers me the most money because this might be the first time I've ever seen the driver not in the best car (Alonso in the Ferrari) be a serious title contender. The tires make winning hard to determine, but money's guaranteed. I'll take good enough for a lot of cash if the tires are this way next year...

Obviously, I'm not Hamilton, but there's no such thing as "the best possible team" anymore in terms of winning. Not with these rules, and I enjoy that of course. It just makes it impossible to know who to sign with if performance is your huge goal.

As for McLaren contacting di Resta...I somehow feel as though Mercedes politics are going to get in the way there, especially if McLaren are looking around for 2014 (as the Honda rumors indicate they may be). They aren't going to invest so much in a driver only to let the supplied team get him over the supplier.

In both cases (Di Resta and Hammy) my guess is that thinking about money figures or capacity to produce a winning car by merely extrapolating what we have seen this year will miss the mark. Macca, RBR, Ferrari, Merc or Lotus know all how to win a championship and I am pretty sure nobody in those teams would like to bet on which among those is the main candidate to win 2013's WCC. Besides, as Alonso has proved, if the team enviroment suits a driver well you might see some surprising results. Maybe Hamilton can win more WDCs at Force India if he feels better there even in a substandard car than he can win in an always threatening but never quite McLaren, if he does not feel comfortable there.

I would not discount Hamilton moving to a less restrictive enviroment like Lotus, and I would not rule him off the championship just because Lotus does not seem out of the box as competitive as the RBRs, Maccas or Mercs or Ferraris.

Actually, a Kimi/Hamilton or even Grosjean/Hamilton pairing at Poochie make my Poochie heart go bleurgh, but my F1 fan heart go "awesome!". Only if Poochie team can keep delivering a winning car as they are doing now.

As for DiResta, well...I guess he has the big advantage that Whitmarsh won't have to teach him how to sing God Save the Queen.

[apexhead 0]

Kubica? I can't see that in a million years.

Well his name has been linked to Ferrari for months, but the bigger question is if he'll ever race in F1 again. As of now, that sounds like a pretty big "if".

[JHS18 0]

Exactly that. I think the key point in your post is that he was linked to Ferrari BEFORE his accident.

Ferrari would be taking a massive punt on Kubica right now when no-one really knows what sort of physical condition he is in, or whether his injuries have had any lasting impact on his driving.

[Massa 0]

What if every driver returns to the exact same teams as in 2011?

[Massa 0]

Fun fact: it's 2012. I'd rather not edit so you can all see my gaffe.

[AleHop 0]

Kubica won't come back any time soon to F1. AFAIK he's ready to start racing in some other categories, it would ne a good test for him.

Will he actually race anywhere in 2013? I wish we could see him racing soon DTM or WRC, maybe? Time will tell.

[JHS18 0]

Said before and I'll say it again - his F1 career is done.

Other forms of racing? Possibly.

[Massa 0]

His F1 career may be done, but I have no idea how anyone on this forum could ever have an actual idea of how Kubica's recovery is going and what condition he needs to be in to return to F1. That's not an insult or disrespect to anyone speculating, but it just seems to me it's impossible for any of us to have any idea. I think we all knew from day one that a return to F1 would be difficult and time-consuming. Other than that, I don't think we know anything.

I've seen it take 21 separate surgeries and six years for a driver to get back in the Indianapolis 500. I know you're all going to say "blah blah blah oval racing is dumb and stupid this is F1 blah blah blah" and Rubens Barrichello will tell you the four corners at IMS are among the hardest he's ever driven and Jean Alesi will tell you he learned more in one week at Indy than in a career in F1 (both said exactly those things). The only difference with F1 is that it would be a lot harder to find a team to hire you after six years of recovery than it is for that race but it might not take him six years and 21 surgeries and he was a whole lot better in F1 than the driver I'm talking about ever was in IndyCars (great of a guy as he is) so there's that.

I've also seen a lot of careers end due to injuries, too.

My point being I'm not writing him off, I'm not expecting him back, either. I have no way of knowing. Every individual situation is different with injuries and quite honestly there is nothing we've heard actually confirmed about how he's doing in a while, and maybe that's enough to say he's not coming back but, eh, I'm not ready to tell him his career in F1 is over.

[Gilles V. 0]

Looks like Massa won't be needing a replacement if he goes on like that (3rd time in 2nd sessions: WOW, who would have believed - not me, I admit)

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Looks like Massa won't be needing a replacement if he goes on like that (3rd time in 2nd sessions: WOW, who would have believed - not me, I admit)

The car more suited to his liking, the rear end does'nt step out so much anymore. Explains alot about the situation at Ferrari...

[KoolMonkey 0]

I havn't changed my view we'll ever see Kubica back again. After he was injured we were subjected to almost weekly news bites on how well he's recovering and how soon he'd be back in a car. They soon evaporated and we haven't heard anything in nearly a year now. It's not going to happen, his F1 career is done. Maybe he'll get the chance to parade around a track in an F1 car or do a demonstration run. Possibly a Friday practice or two, but this will all be in the vein of giving him a proper farewell to F1.

Look at it this way, some argue Schumi is past it. He may well be, I don't know the answer to that question, but he came back into F1 only having suffered long days spent at home with his wife, and I think a motorcycle accident or two. Kubica basically had his whole hand severed and arm nearly ripped off. So if the naysayers are true in that Schumi is past it because he sat out 3 years in F1 without serious injury, how on earth can Kubica make a comeback in anything other than a symbolic role after his extensive and horrific injuries. It's not going to happen. He was a good driver, he may have been great in time, but we'll never know. I get annoyed when I see articles referring to him as some godly gift to F1 in the vein of Prost and Senna. He won one F1 race. Maldonado has won one F1 race. I rate Kubica higher than I do Maldonado, but he will never be in the top echelon of F1 drivers like Senna, Prost, Mansell, Hakkinen, Schumi, Kimi, Alonso, Hamilton simply because he will never be in F1 again. What ifs don't matter at this point.

[Massa 0]

Actually, there was news about Kubica just last week. He was recoving well from an operation on his arm and going in to get another (presumably on the other arm).

There is no doubt a comeback is hard. Schumacher's a good example, Räikkönen's done well but still not too Räikkönen-like (and perhaps that's for factors like the tires).

It's even tougher when you can't choose when you get to return. I have no idea how far down the road he is, and no one else does either, so I can't say he will or he won't, but at 27, if it takes him a few more years, teams are going to want to invest in someone younger who they can more accurately predict how future performances will go. Taking on Kubica is a high-risk. Ferrari aren't going to do that if they think even Pérez is too risky, as they stated.

But that doesn't mean Kubica is or isn't going to make an F1 comeback. I don't think Kubica or his doctors are even at the point of knowing whether or not he can. It would be a mighty cool story if he did, though I just hope he recovers well enough to do everything normally and enjoy some kind of second career after racing.

As for Massa, I figure with the way the tires are, Ferrari won't bother replacing him mid-season. The kid isn't doing much for his future ride prospects and he gets paid way too much to be of value to anyone. I think he's going to retire with Ferrari and serve some meaningless role within the Scuderia (test driver) and just drive road cars around Mugello and make some public appearances and maybe do a sports car race or two. He had his fifteen minutes and he proved a lot of people wrong for a very long time. He has a wife and he has at least one child that I know of and he showed a lot of heart this whole experience, tons of it. What more can you want? I'd hate to see my favorite driver go, but I think he already went sometime in 2010 and never came back.

[dribbler 6]

I havn't changed my view we'll ever see Kubica back again. After he was injured we were subjected to almost weekly news bites on how well he's recovering and how soon he'd be back in a car. They soon evaporated and we haven't heard anything in nearly a year now. It's not going to happen, his F1 career is done. Maybe he'll get the chance to parade around a track in an F1 car or do a demonstration run. Possibly a Friday practice or two, but this will all be in the vein of giving him a proper farewell to F1.

Look at it this way, some argue Schumi is past it. He may well be, I don't know the answer to that question, but he came back into F1 only having suffered long days spent at home with his wife, and I think a motorcycle accident or two. Kubica basically had his whole hand severed and arm nearly ripped off. So if the naysayers are true in that Schumi is past it because he sat out 3 years in F1 without serious injury, how on earth can Kubica make a comeback in anything other than a symbolic role after his extensive and horrific injuries. It's not going to happen. He was a good driver, he may have been great in time, but we'll never know. I get annoyed when I see articles referring to him as some godly gift to F1 in the vein of Prost and Senna. He won one F1 race. Maldonado has won one F1 race. I rate Kubica higher than I do Maldonado, but he will never be in the top echelon of F1 drivers like Senna, Prost, Mansell, Hakkinen, Schumi, Kimi, Alonso, Hamilton simply because he will never be in F1 again. What ifs don't matter at this point.

People who know a bit about F1 rated Robert highly and with good reason, in my opinion.

Not all judgements should be based on results, when there are differences in car performance.

Therefore comparing Kubica to Maldonado is like comparing a handbag with a Russian wedding, and just as stupid.