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Grabthaw the Hammerslayer

Is It Me Or Is Vettel Looking Ordinary....?

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It amuses me a great deal that the proponents of the fact based defence of his worthiness as a two time wolrd champion are so quick to roll out the what might have been defence when he drives like a cucumber and runs others off the road. In the eyes of the Vettel worshippers here, he can do no wrong!

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I think there's a difference between worship and respecting someone who has accomplished so much in this sport.

I'm among the biggest group of Vettel haters; I've been, quite honestly, bashing him since 2007, on the basis that everyone else thought he was a future champion and I like being disagreeable. It had nothing to do with him replacing Scott Speed, nothing at all...

But it's just as poor, I think you'd agree, to never see anything good in a driver as it is to never see anything bad in a driver. I would think being open-minded would involve not writing off every praise of Vettel as worship, just as it would involve not writing off every criticism of Vettel as a negative bias.

And I say all this as the most biased, least fair poster here. :P

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I think you have misinterpreted the point I was making about Vettels supporters. Not Vettel himself.

Worship for me, means blindly following someone no matter what, which is something I am seeing on this forum. Respect means appreciating for what he has achieved based upon how an individual personally views that achievment.

I don't respect what he has achieved because of how I view it. Others do. I am fine with others respecting him, not so much for blindly worshipping him.

That is my point. Which is neither close minded or writing off anything I do not agree with as negative bias.

In point of fact, if you look at my very first post on this forum, in this thread, I stated admiration for the one thing I have seen that I liked about him.

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It amuses me a great deal that the proponents of the fact based defence of his worthiness as a two time wolrd champion are so quick to roll out the what might have been defence when he drives like a cucumber and runs others off the road. In the eyes of the Vettel worshippers here, he can do no wrong!

Indeed, I think Vettel can do no wrong, which is why I chose to bring up plenty of his mistakes eusa_think.gifBut give me a break hey, we can't all be as objective as you about Vettel!

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I think there's a difference between worship and respecting someone who has accomplished so much in this sport.

I'm among the biggest group of Vettel haters; I've been, quite honestly, bashing him since 2007, on the basis that everyone else thought he was a future champion and I like being disagreeable. It had nothing to do with him replacing Scott Speed, nothing at all...

But it's just as poor, I think you'd agree, to never see anything good in a driver as it is to never see anything bad in a driver. I would think being open-minded would involve not writing off every praise of Vettel as worship, just as it would involve not writing off every criticism of Vettel as a negative bias.

And I say all this as the most biased, least fair poster here. :P

you just beat me to this post.

It's really sad that just after one bad race when the incident was classified as a racing incident ppl just jump on the anti-Vettel bandwagon and use this excuse for him being an ordinary driver. To maintain the consistency that Vetel and RBR has achieved is remarkable, and in a year where they were the hardest hit by regulations, in my view to curb their dominance, it was and will be extremely difficult to keep that momentum as the leaders both in the driver's championship and the constructers. To achieve a triple was never really going to be easy...

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Indeed, I think Vettel can do no wrong, which is why I chose to bring up plenty of his mistakes eusa_think.gifBut give me a break hey, we can't all be as objective as you about Vettel!

Sorry, I did not want to single any one poster out. If you felt the need to respond so defensively when you propose how objective you are, makes me wonder why you bothered tbh.....

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you just beat me to this post.

It's really sad that just after one bad race when the incident was classified as a racing incident ppl just jump on the anti-Vettel bandwagon and use this excuse for him being an ordinary driver. To maintain the consistency that Vetel and RBR has achieved is remarkable, and in a year where they were the hardest hit by regulations, in my view to curb their dominance, it was and will be extremely difficult to keep that momentum as the leaders both in the driver's championship and the constructers. To achieve a triple was never really going to be easy...

This is exactly my point! ROFL

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This is exactly my point! ROFL

So basically for me he has always seemed ordinary and nothing special and not deserving of either of the WDC titles he has.

yeah, I seemed to have missed the point....

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Eh, just as people can see Vettel differently, we can see the posts here differently. I see some people who are excited about a young champion with presumably an even brighter future adding yet another potential winner to every race's grid, and I see some people who are tired of him already. I'm not sure I really see worship, but perhaps you do, and that's fine enough.

Vettel himself...has he looked (exact word in the thread title) the same way he looked in the past? Not yet, because he hasn't won races, poles, and set fast lap. But if him not winning the title this year makes him a fluke, I'd hate to know what Alonso is, six years dry and everything like that, or Hamilton, who never even got to two, or Webber, who has never won a title in any level of motorsport beyond karting.

Kid's got another 18 races to prove something this year. Could have another 18 years to prove something if he ages well and boy would I hate to have to watch that. :lol:

The thing with opinions is it's easy to dismiss something as worship, and something else as close-minded bias. But it's more fun to push thought without judgments to cloud it. Saying that makes me a hypocrite, I know. :P

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It's definately not a cucumber, I have noticed one in my fridge. Looks abit like Narain if I tilt it slightly...

I'll give you this if nothing else, Narain is one 'cool' cucumber. :)

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OK, point one: why can't we have Vettel worshippers on TF1? Or Schumi worshippers? Or any other driver worshippers? I believe we have more than enough, for a variety of drivers. I don't think every single person can be unbiased, at most we can strive to be, and that's if we want to. I think you'll find that for any "worshipper" it is hard to admit his favourite driver's mistakes or shortcomings and it takes an interesting amount of inventive to gloss over them (and boy, the rest of us have fun reading it). But in the end it's all in good fun, and it won't do to gang on 2 people (AleHop and Andrés could probably testify) just because they won't change their mind.

I know sometimes I sound like "peace, please", but that's how I feel. Let's have the next race, and the next, and so on and it might prove someone right (doubt it). Of course we can discuss it at length, but let's just stop short of flogging the dead horse.

Rant over, sorry to disturb.

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OK, point one: why can't we have Vettel worshippers on TF1? Or Schumi worshippers? Or any other driver worshippers? I believe we have more than enough, for a variety of drivers. I don't think every single person can be unbiased, at most we can strive to be, and that's if we want to. I think you'll find that for any "worshipper" it is hard to admit his favourite driver's mistakes or shortcomings and it takes an interesting amount of inventive to gloss over them (and boy, the rest of us have fun reading it). But in the end it's all in good fun, and it won't do to gang on 2 people (AleHop and Andrés could probably testify) just because they won't change their mind.

I know sometimes I sound like "peace, please", but that's how I feel. Let's have the next race, and the next, and so on and it might prove someone right (doubt it). Of course we can discuss it at length, but let's just stop short of flogging the dead horse.

Rant over, sorry to disturb.

Who said we could not have worshippers? I am totally open to being worshipped.

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OK, point one: why can't we have Vettel worshippers on TF1? Or Schumi worshippers? Or any other driver worshippers? I believe we have more than enough, for a variety of drivers. I don't think every single person can be unbiased, at most we can strive to be, and that's if we want to. I think you'll find that for any "worshipper" it is hard to admit his favourite driver's mistakes or shortcomings and it takes an interesting amount of inventive to gloss over them (and boy, the rest of us have fun reading it). But in the end it's all in good fun, and it won't do to gang on 2 people (AleHop and Andrés could probably testify) just because they won't change their mind.

I know sometimes I sound like "peace, please", but that's how I feel. Let's have the next race, and the next, and so on and it might prove someone right (doubt it). Of course we can discuss it at length, but let's just stop short of flogging the dead horse.

Rant over, sorry to disturb.

The reason we can't have Vettel worshippers, or any other driver worshippers for that matter, is because only Schumi is worthy of being worshipped.

Not sure why I even have to explain this :whistling:

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...

Vettel himself...has he looked (exact word in the thread title) the same way he looked in the past? Not yet, because he hasn't won races, poles, and set fast lap. But if him not winning the title this year makes him a fluke, I'd hate to know what Alonso is, six years dry and everything like that, or Hamilton, who never even got to two, or Webber, who has never won a title in any level of motorsport beyond karting.

...

Well Alonso - Came VERY Close to a Three peat in 2007, '08 and '09 he was driving a Renault Twingo, VERY Close in '10, Drove a Fiat Panda last year, and has a Fiat 500 this year

Hammy - Dont Care, Slam away.

Webber - Didnt care for him much after he humiliated Britney at Williams :)

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Well Alonso - Came VERY Close to a Three peat in 2007, '08 and '09 he was driving a Renault Twingo, VERY Close in '10, Drove a Fiat Panda last year, and has a Fiat 500 this year

Hammy - Dont Care, Slam away.

Webber - Loved how he dragged that Jaguar up the grid in Quali. Didnt care for him much after he humiliated Britney at Williams :)

<br><br>Hah , was trying to edit my earlier post and ended up Replying to it :P<br>

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Probably Vettel looks ordinary if your short term memory only shows the greats of 2011. We have a more accurate portrait of Vettel if we remember 2010 and before. And we'll need more than just two very peculiar races in a season of 20 to make a fair statement about any F1 driver.

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Probably Vettel looks ordinary if your short term memory only shows the greats of 2011. We have a more accurate portrait of Vettel if we remember 2010 and before. And we'll need more than just two very peculiar races in a season of 20 to make a fair statement about any F1 driver.

My long term and short term memory are both reminding me of the quotidian qualities of fingerboy. He is not special at all, he has had a car that has dominated for the last 3 seasons. In the last 3 seasons the only real challenge he has faced is having to put up with some reliabilty isues. Now that Red Bull are playing catch up (having had to incorporate the Mclaren exhaust system towards the end of testing) the massive advatage they have had for the previous seasons no longer exists. Hence, the dummy being spat out in Malaysia and the unchampion like behaviour.

I am loving 2012! :D

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My long term and short term memory are both reminding me of the quotidian qualities of fingerboy. He is not special at all, he has had a car that has dominated for the last 3 seasons. In the last 3 seasons the only real challenge he has faced is having to put up with some reliabilty isues. Now that Red Bull are playing catch up (having had to incorporate the Mclaren exhaust system towards the end of testing) the massive advatage they have had for the previous seasons no longer exists. Hence, the dummy being spat out in Malaysia and the unchampion like behaviour.

I am loving 2012! :D

I think you've made your point now. Okay, we get it, you don't think Vettel's special, no matter what anyone says. No need to keep repeating yourself if that's the case.

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I think you've made your point now. Okay, we get it, you don't think Vettel's special, no matter what anyone says. No need to keep repeating yourself if that's the case.

like talking to a brick?

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i have only read the title of this thread, didn't read any coments.

vettel is good but he has many things to learn yet, but he has enough time. people tend to exaggerate about qualities of modern day heroes, and with that they put huge burden on their shoulders.

so if modern day heroes don't deliver expectation of the people they suck big time. vettel was young and naive when he accepted glory and media attention saying he is the best, but who wouldn't do the same.

just think what would people expect from perez if he won in sepang. even with his second place they said that he is new senna. P.S. i enjoy the myth of magic alonso right now, the lord of crappy cars and crappy weather :D

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like talking to a brick?

Haha, pretty much.

In fact this emoticon sums it up pretty well. :frusty:

Funny that someone who clearly dislikes a driver so much can therefore add the most posts to a thread about said driver...

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Haha, pretty much.

In fact this emoticon sums it up pretty well. :frusty:

Funny that someone who clearly dislikes a driver so much can therefore add the most posts to a thread about said driver...

Yes, in a thread asking about Vettels ability, my opinion is a lesser one that should not be heard because the Vettel fanclub are at a loss as to how to respond to my thoughts.

I am picturing your bedrooms adorned with Vettel posters, bed sheets and curtains.

You don't like my opinion, we all get it.

You and brad should have a little tea party together and opine on the cruelties of other people not agreeing with you.

I feel sad for you guys that your self worth seems so wrapped up in what I say about your boyfriend! I fear you will be crying into those tea cups soon!

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