Grabthaw the Hammerslayer

Is It Me Or Is Vettel Looking Ordinary....?

300 posts in this topic

To be honest, and im probably going to be torched for this, but i believe Vettel's car had an edge over Webber's car last year, and with his car, i think most of the front runners could have won the WDC. I would not be surprised at all if Webber can clime on top of Vettel as teams #1 driver or evened out this year.

Well, I'm not convinced their cars were any different, I think Vettel just pulled out an edge on Webbo with his driving. Apparently Seb was more comfortable with the exhaust system, at least that's what they say. This year might be a bit more like 2010 though, where Mark was very much on his case.

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With the caveat that these past two races are hardly an indication of any tendencies, if anyways we should try to extrapolate from there I still maintain that Seb might have gotten worse (or any chosen explanation to the fact that he performed worse than Mark in the end) but I still see not a single hint that Mark has actually improved.

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With the caveat that these past two races are hardly an indication of any tendencies, if anyways we should try to extrapolate from there I still maintain that Seb might have gotten worse (or any chosen explanation to the fact that he performed worse than Mark in the end) but I still see not a single hint that Mark has actually improved.

I did not understand a word of that. Are you stupid, or is it not me?

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To be honest, and im probably going to be torched for this, but i believe Vettel's car had an edge over Webber's car last year, and with his car, i think most of the front runners could have won the WDC. I would not be surprised at all if Webber can clime on top of Vettel as teams #1 driver or evened out this year.

:furious:

Consider yourself torched.

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I did not understand a word of that. Are you stupid, or is it not me?

Oh yeah? So I'm stupid now? Oh yeah? Well...you know? I'll tell you this...

YOU ARE NOT!

:eusa_think:

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Anyways, what I meant is that I see no Webber's ressurgence. I only see two poor races from Seb compared to his past two years, but Mark is still the guy that looks most likely to finish 4th in the championship for 3rd consecutive season or so.

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I think the difference in Vettel this year is that he knows going into Saturday that he hasn't got a pole winning car. That means he has to wring the neck of the redbull and isn't putting the calm, clean P1 laps together that he did last year.

He got into his stride very early in 2011 and chalked up one pole after another. That puts a drivers head in a great place during the weeks leading up to a race too. Easy to be calm when you know that pole should be yours.

Last year he only had to drive as well as anyone else to be sure of a win (and a little better than Mark - meh). This year he knows he has to drive better than both Macca drivers to make up the difference in cars. Perhaps he knows deep down that he can't do that.

Hamilton faced much the same battle the year after he won his WDC - we're seeing a similar inner battle here with slightly fewer fireworks so far (excluding the cucumber incident).

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To be honest, and im probably going to be torched for this, but i believe Vettel's car had an edge over Webber's car last year, and with his car, i think most of the front runners could have won the WDC. I would not be surprised at all if Webber can clime on top of Vettel as teams #1 driver or evened out this year.

I live in Madrid just where the Inquisition had the quemadero (bonfire) some centuries ago... :mellow: (not kidding)

Hey, don't look at me as if we had torched thousands there! :furious: (it was like 2 or 3 a year)

No, I'm not going to torch you. I have no doubt about Vettel's talent vs. Webber's but I said many times last season Red Bull could pick the WDC winner and still have the WCC title in their pocket. I don't think the difference between the two is as big as it was last season, I'd say their cars were not identical, but part of that difference relies on Webber's mistakes. Vettel did barely no mistake last season.

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I live in Madrid just where the Inquisition had the quemadero (bonfire) some centuries ago... :mellow: (not kidding)

Hey, don't look at me as if we had torched thousands there! :furious: (it was like 2 or 3 a year)

No, I'm not going to torch you. I have no doubt about Vettel's talent vs. Webber's but I said many times last season Red Bull could pick the WDC winner and still have the WCC title in their pocket. I don't think the difference between the two is as big as it was last season, I'd say their cars were not identical, but part of that difference relies on Webber's mistakes. Vettel did barely no mistake last season.

I agree with you, Webber made quite a few mistakes last year, and Vettel drove very well all year. I also agree that this year it will be a lot more even, similar to 2010. But I still think Redbull are very biased towards Vettel, just an opinion though. You can't take anything away from him though, had a dominant car last year, and drove it brilliantly. This year though, I think we are going to have a much more even and exciting season. As the year wears on, i think the teams will even out abit, and we could have up to 5 or 6 teams in contention to win a race.

Edited by Drag Reduction System

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I agree with you, Webber made quite a few mistakes last year, and Vettel drove very well all year. I also agree that this year it will be a lot more even, similar to 2010. But I still think Redbull are very biased towards Vettel, just an opinion though. You can't take anything away from him though, had a dominant car last year, and drove it brilliantly. This year though, I think we are going to have a much more even and exciting season. As the year wears on, i think the teams will even out abit, and we could have up to 5 or 6 teams in contention to win a race.

Two races in it's too early to say that Webber and Vettel are more even. In the same way, I expect Rosberg to get back on top of Schumacher.

Do you have any substance to your theory why you believe Vettel is favoured over Webber?

Personally, I think as the year progresses we will see less teams in contention for a win. It will be between Red Bull and McLaren. Mercedes and Lotus will fade. It's just what happens. The latter two are already behind which means their rate of development needs to be quicker than Red Bull and McLaren. If they couldn't start they year ahead, they will not leap frog them as the year goes on. I think Ferrari (in the hands of Alonso) will probably nestle into a predictable third.

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Helmut Marko has a preference for Seb.

Christian Horner and Mark Webber are in business together in GP3, so in that respect, I think Horner can only ever be neutral to both, and he has more control on the race team than Helmut.

The PR machine has naturally aligned to Vettel due to his better performance last year. They put the perception that Vettel is the best out there and/or expand on his talents so to speak. If Webber strung some good performances together and got to a point where it was unlikely Vettel would beat him, then PR would swing in his favour. And as the average person is little more than a sheep, then perception is reality.

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Two races in it's too early to say that Webber and Vettel are more even. In the same way, I expect Rosberg to get back on top of Schumacher.

Do you have any substance to your theory why you believe Vettel is favoured over Webber?

Personally, I think as the year progresses we will see less teams in contention for a win. It will be between Red Bull and McLaren. Mercedes and Lotus will fade. It's just what happens. The latter two are already behind which means their rate of development needs to be quicker than Red Bull and McLaren. If they couldn't start they year ahead, they will not leap frog them as the year goes on. I think Ferrari (in the hands of Alonso) will probably nestle into a predictable third.

I think Alonso alone cannot bring Ferrari up to 3rd in the constructors.

...and Alonso might as well be alone - either Kimi+Grosjean or Schumi+Rosberg will push Ferrari down to 4th in the WCC.

As for the WDC - it's between Hamilton, Button and Vettel for me. Webber/Alonso 4th and 5th. Kimi/Rosberg/Schumi battling over 6th/7th/8th.

But hey - what does anyone really know this early. Ferrari, Macca and Redbull have the cash to match any development from Merc and Lotus.

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Vettel said that they have problems getting the best of their setup and "unlocking the potential of the RB8"

I would have thought unlocking a package with an exhaust blown diffuser would be much more challenging since its an active downforce system compared to a relatively straight passive system now.

I suppose it goes to show that when you are dominant, you are not really pushing the limits and finding that diminishing return "zone". You could run a conservative set up and still beat the competition.

At least, it would be more fun for us spectators when they get hot under the collar. All of them.

Edited by The Shadow

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Vettel said that they have problems getting the best of their setup and "unlocking the potential of the RB8"

I would have thought unlocking a package with an exhaust blown diffuser would be much more challenging since its an active downforce system compared to a relatively straight passive system now.

I suppose it goes to show that when you are dominant, you are not really pushing the limits and finding that diminishing return "zone". You could run a conservative set up and still beat the competition.

At least, it would be more fun for us spectators when they get hot under the collar. All of them.

you reckon it's that easy?

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you reckon it's that easy?

Of course not. We are of course speculating about some of the best engineering companies in the world.

I suppose I was mistaken in talking about physical set up. What I meant to convey was in fact driving limits. In this case perhaps Vettel is showing some rough edges now because he really needs to drag the car up the grid on a raceday, reducing his margin for errors. Last year he probably did not need to be in that sort of mindset where he went attacking all the way.

Doesn't of course detract from the displays of perfection he showed all last year, but just a reflection on the mindset now that the momentum has been shifted away from vettel and RB. All dynasties fall, its just how quick they can learn and get back up.

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Of course not. We are of course speculating about some of the best engineering companies in the world.

I suppose I was mistaken in talking about physical set up. What I meant to convey was in fact driving limits. In this case perhaps Vettel is showing some rough edges now because he really needs to drag the car up the grid on a raceday, reducing his margin for errors. Last year he probably did not need to be in that sort of mindset where he went attacking all the way.

Doesn't of course detract from the displays of perfection he showed all last year, but just a reflection on the mindset now that the momentum has been shifted away from vettel and RB. All dynasties fall, its just how quick they can learn and get back up.

Yes, I thought you were reflecting on physical setup, cause I read he quite knows how to to it...

the rest of your post I agree with too :thbup:

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Is it ordinary, or is Vettel looking like me?

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Is it ordinary, or is Vettel looking like me?

Okay Steve, I know it's friday, but isn't it still a bit too early in the UK to be as drunk as I am right now?

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...drunk as I am right now?

Ditto. Cheers!

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Okay Steve, I know it's friday, but isn't it still a bit too early in the UK to be as drunk as I am right now?

Whass that? You're in the UK right now? *hic*

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Ditto. Cheers!

Bottoms up, old bean.

Ben, no.

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Bottoms up, old bean.

Ben, no.

:lol: That made me choke on my cucumber!

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