Grabthaw the Hammerslayer

Is It Me Or Is Vettel Looking Ordinary....?

300 posts in this topic

Eric, you can't turn everything into a Survivor series... Formula 1 Grand Prix Survivor just aint sounds cool man...

But it's one of just three good shows on TV. One of the others is Kourtney and Kim Kardashian Take New York, and I don't think you want me to turn that into F1, though I could.

The Kardashians' adopted father Bruce Jenner raced sports cars for Jack Roush alongside Scott Pruett. Scott Pruett tested for Larrousse in 1987.

2012-03-22_celebridades_02.jpg

Their mother, Kris Jenner, and Kourtney's boyfriend, Scott Disick, are behind weight loss pill QuickTrim. QuickTrim sponsored Graham Rahal in IndyCar (the car had Kim on it before they were asked to remove her, sort of like removing a mass damper so Schumacher can make the championship battle less dull). Graham's father Bobby was in charge of Jaguar F1 for a while.

Scott Disick wanted to be a racecar driver. Sebastian Vettel wanted to be a racecar driver. And sure enough he became one.

Bruce Jenner has won the Toyota Celebrity/Pro race before, and his son Brody will run it this year. It's held at Long Beach. The USGP used to be held there.

Bruce has been grand marshal for a NASCAR race due to his connections to the DRIVE4COPD charity. DRIVE4COPD is also supported by Danica Patrick. Danica almost did an F1 test for Honda, and then another with Renault.

Three women are posing with some guy in this picture. Grid girls do this all the time in F1.

FULL.jpg

This is Kim touching a firesuit. F1 drivers wear firesuits.

mikebliss2010_display_image.jpg?1296671164

The possibilities and connections are endless. The family was at the NASCAR race this past yesterday. Disick and Jenner raced in the celebrity race held on Saturday.

If Perez had won, would Hamilton not be in the lead on points without having won a race?

Not if Pérez had won and Hamilton had finished fourth. :P

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First we need to get your head out of yours... :)

Yes, I will have to remove it in time to enjoy watching Vettel squirm this season. Without the best car he won't be making it a third WDC anytime soon, if ever again.

So all the Vettel fanboys will have to get over their own delusions and deal with reality. Ergo, pull their heads out their asses.

yes? :)

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But it's one of just three good shows on TV. One of the others is Kourtney and Kim Kardashian Take New York, and I don't think you want me to turn that into F1, though I could.

The Kardashians' adopted father Bruce Jenner raced sports cars for Jack Roush alongside Scott Pruett. Scott Pruett tested for Larrousse in 1987.

2012-03-22_celebridades_02.jpg

Their mother, Kris Jenner, and Kourtney's boyfriend, Scott Disick, are behind weight loss pill QuickTrim. QuickTrim sponsored Graham Rahal in IndyCar (the car had Kim on it before they were asked to remove her, sort of like removing a mass damper so Schumacher can make the championship battle less dull). Graham's father Bobby was in charge of Jaguar F1 for a while.

Scott Disick wanted to be a racecar driver. Sebastian Vettel wanted to be a racecar driver. And sure enough he became one.

Bruce Jenner has won the Toyota Celebrity/Pro race before, and his son Brody will run it this year. It's held at Long Beach. The USGP used to be held there.

Bruce has been grand marshal for a NASCAR race due to his connections to the DRIVE4COPD charity. DRIVE4COPD is also supported by Danica Patrick. Danica almost did an F1 test for Honda, and then another with Renault.

Three women are posing with some guy in this picture. Grid girls do this all the time in F1.

FULL.jpg

This is Kim touching a firesuit. F1 drivers wear firesuits.

mikebliss2010_display_image.jpg?1296671164

The possibilities and connections are endless. The family was at the NASCAR race this past yesterday. Disick and Jenner raced in the celebrity race held on Saturday.

Not if Pérez had won and Hamilton had finished fourth. :P

Lol. Still, in an ideal set of circumstances you could lead without winning :P

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Yes, I will have to remove it in time to enjoy watching Vettel squirm this season. Without the best car he won't be making it a third WDC anytime soon, if ever again.

So all the Vettel fanboys will have to get over their own delusions and deal with reality. Ergo, pull their heads out their asses.

yes? :)

so who do you support Volatilis?

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I mostly enjoy the rich tapestry of the sport as to any one partiicular team or driver. Though when I first started watching I'd probably say Mclaren, Sauber & Williams were particular favourites.

As for drivers I currently respect; Webber, Hamilton, Perez, Alonso, Kubica, Senna.

Off topic, has anyone else noticed how Paul Di Resta keeps bouncing up on the balls of his feet when he talks. It's really annoying and it's on my list of point deductable offences as far as I am concerned.

So my bias extends further than just Vettel :)

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So is his driving better or worse than it has been at other times?

I have no idea. I doubt it has gotten worse. I just don't think the Red Bull gives him what he needs.

Still curious about qualifying, though, and why he's been behind Webber.

You didn't read my post then, did you, Eric?

Not talking to you now :P

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I mostly enjoy the rich tapestry of the sport as to any one partiicular team or driver. Though when I first started watching I'd probably say Mclaren, Sauber & Williams were particular favourites.

As for drivers I currently respect; Webber, Hamilton, Perez, Alonso, Kubica, Senna.

Off topic, has anyone else noticed how Paul Di Resta keeps bouncing up on the balls of his feet when he talks. It's really annoying and it's on my list of point deductable offences as far as I am concerned.

So my bias extends further than just Vettel :)

Some very good drivers in your list.

How many points has Vettel lost in Malaysia with the cucumber? :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SYn6fAIRU4

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I mostly enjoy the rich tapestry of the sport as to any one partiicular team or driver. Though when I first started watching I'd probably say Mclaren, Sauber & Williams were particular favourites.

As for drivers I currently respect; Webber, Hamilton, Perez, Alonso, Kubica, Senna.

Off topic, has anyone else noticed how Paul Di Resta keeps bouncing up on the balls of his feet when he talks. It's really annoying and it's on my list of point deductable offences as far as I am concerned.

So my bias extends further than just Vettel :)

somehow I knew Webber was on the list :lol:

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Some very good drivers in your list.

How many points has Vettel lost in Malaysia with the cucumber? :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SYn6fAIRU4

Have you looked at the footage Handy, sure Vettel cut in abit in front of the HRT, but I think Vettel thought the move was done. What suprises me is that the cucumber moves right into the RB with speed while having enough space to his left.

Cucumber should be banned from F1, the sooner the better...

Edited by BradSpeedMan

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Have you looked at the footage Handy, sure Vettel cut in abit in front of the HRT, but I think Vettel thought the move was done. What suprises me is that the cucumber moves right into the RB with speed while having enough space to his left.

Cucumber should be banned from F1, the sooner the better...

You are going frame by frame like people last year trying to over analyse every incident until it lost all its meaning. In the context of a race, all this takes less than a second, in very complex scenarios. At normal speed, under normal circumstances, you don't have the time, nor the duty of instantaneous decisions, not to mention teleporting :P

NK clearly moves over to let Vettel through, then keeps his line. That is the most any thinking being should expect from his fellow driver. Seb fails at that. He does what most front drivers do to divert their frustration: bully the weaker guy. He cuts in front of the HRT suddenly.

That was not just dangerous per se, it was also completely useless and what is even worse, he failed at it. A 2 times WDC should at least know better than to move so suddenly in front of a car and/or driver that is considered hazardous precisely because of its ill handling. It's only natural to keep your line until you can at least see the car in your rearview mirror before closing the door on it. He didn't do that. He just tried to scare the guy away. Crashing was a certain possibility and he went for it. And he found it.

He was a total cucumber there, your kid. Sorry.

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You are going frame by frame like people last year trying to over analyse every incident until it lost all its meaning. In the context of a race, all this takes less than a second, in very complex scenarios. At normal speed, under normal circumstances, you don't have the time, nor the duty of instantaneous decisions, not to mention teleporting :P

NK clearly moves over to let Vettel through, then keeps his line. That is the most any thinking being should expect from his fellow driver. Seb fails at that. He does what most front drivers do to divert their frustration: bully the weaker guy. He cuts in front of the HRT suddenly.

That was not just dangerous per se, it was also completely useless and what is even worse, he failed at it. A 2 times WDC should at least know better than to move so suddenly in front of a car and/or driver that is considered hazardous precisely because of its ill handling. It's only natural to keep your line until you can at least see the car in your rearview mirror before closing the door on it. He didn't do that. He just tried to scare the guy away. Crashing was a certain possibility and he went for it. And he found it.

He was a total cucumber there, your kid. Sorry.

Where do you see him holding his line???? The cucumber (the rightful one) clearly moves to the right??? Have you even looked at the video b4 posting this, or did the frame by frame discourage you?

EDIT: How do you think the stewards came to their conclusions, by frame by frame viewing and telemetry of course. Now you might say the stewards are wrong in this regard, as per usual, but something prompted them to hand the penalty, and it's derived from footage like this. An I agree with them looking at these replays

Edited by BradSpeedMan

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I know there hasn't been any occasion of this before. And I know it sets some kind of crazy precedent here. But I'm going to go right out on a limb and say... the stewards got it wrong.

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There shouldn't have been any penalty handed out and it was more Vettel's responsibility to make a clean pass than Karthy's. He could have done it easily too. Silly.

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I know there hasn't been any occasion of this before. And I know it sets some kind of crazy precedent here. But I'm going to go right out on a limb and say... the stewards got it wrong.

YOUR point of view, wait till the next Hamilton crash, then they usually get it right...

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for poor driving, crashing into team mates,

Hmm, yes, because Vettel is the first champion EVER to make a couple of errors over the duration of a season.

pointing fingers and naming your chassis after prostitutes.

I find it quite amusing people in the past have criticised drivers for not showing much of a human side, not much humour, etc, and then Vettel gets slated for his light-hearted moments. Oh I forgot, this is F1, unless you're some sort of corporate machine, then you're clearly an unprofessional kid with no place in F1. ;)

In 2010 I would have given the title to Webber or Alonso. In 2011, most likely to Button.

:rofl:

Oh wait - you were being serious?

Let's get some perspective - okay, I'll admit, Vettel made a couple of driving errors, but he lost a whole bunch of points through reliability problems in '10 when running in a strong position - notably Bahrain and Australia. Considering the small margin of points the title was actually decided by, you cannot say seriously that he didn't "deserve" it.

Webber had the better reliability and choked when in a strong position at Korea.

Alonso resorted to team orders in Germany and still didn't win. And that is coming from an Alonso fan.

2011 - sure, Red Bull had the superior car, but still, he had to put a consistent season together with no errors. Consider that all his rivals at some point made errors - Hamilton indeed couldn't even put most races together without some error...

You fail to acknowledge the brilliant strategy that helped Vettel win at Monaco - or a performance like Korea when he managed to get to the front on the very first lap, despite not being on pole?

Okay, whatever you want to believe. I won't bother getting into any of his brilliant Toro Rosso drives either then.

Welcome to the forum anyway.

Edited by JHS18

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:ph34r:

Where do you see him holding his line???? The cucumber (the rightful one) clearly moves to the right??? Have you even looked at the video b4 posting this, or did the frame by frame discourage you?

EDIT: How do you think the stewards came to their conclusions, by frame by frame viewing and telemetry of course. Now you might say the stewards are wrong in this regard, as per usual, but something prompted them to hand the penalty, and it's derived from footage like this. An I agree with them looking at these replays

Errrm, I am sorry Brad me old mucker, but I agree with baldy.....to a point.

Looking at the incident, Karthikeyan does move over and at that time clips Vettel, I agree with that, but I don't really think Vettel should have been over there near him.

If you look at the next corner after the incident, it is a left hander (they have just come out of a right hander), Vettel's line for lapping Karthikeyan should have naturally kept him more over towards the right hand side of the track for the upcoming left hander. However, coming out of the corner, Vettel looks like he is trying to get back on the racing line as soon as possible. From the onboards, we know Karthikeyan is struggling with his car as he has just put a wheel in the dirt, so he is trying to get back on the racing line for the next corner too. Vettel must have seen the plume of dirt too, in that case the sensible thing would have been to give him more room than normal, not less :ph34r:

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Hmm, yes, because Vettel is the first champion EVER to make a couple of errors over the duration of a season.

I find it quite amusing people in the past have criticised drivers for not showing much of a human side, not much humour, etc, and then Vettel gets slated for his light-hearted moments. Oh I forgot, this is F1, unless you're some sort of corporate machine, then you're clearly an unprofessional kid with no place in F1. ;)

:rofl:

Oh wait - you were being serious?

Let's get some perspective - okay, I'll admit, Vettel made a couple of driving errors, but he lost a whole bunch of points through reliability problems in '10 when running in a strong position - notably Bahrain and Australia. Considering the small margin of points the title was actually decided by, you cannot say seriously that he didn't "deserve" it.

Webber had the better reliability and choked when in a strong position at Korea.

Alonso resorted to team orders in Germany and still didn't win. And that is coming from an Alonso fan.

2011 - sure, Red Bull had the superior car, but still, he had to put a consistent season together with no errors. Consider that all his rivals at some point made errors - Hamilton indeed couldn't even put most races together without some error...

You fail to acknowledge the brilliant strategy that helped Vettel win at Monaco - or a performance like Korea when he managed to get to the front on the very first lap, despite not being on pole?

Okay, whatever you want to believe. I won't bother getting into any of his brilliant Toro Rosso drives either then.

Welcome to the forum anyway.

Its just my opinion, though I think you may be taking me a little too seriously with the jokes about naming his car.....

Feel free to tell me about his brilliant drives in his Toro Rosso, I am always open to having my mind changed :D

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YOUR point of view, wait till the next Hamilton crash, then they usually get it right...

Nope - the stewards often get things wrong and since I don't support any driver I tend to take each case as I see it regardless of who's involved. It's called objectivity. tongue.gif

Hamilton's got away without penalties when he should have had one and has equally been punished when it was just a driving incident.

This was a racing incident - no penalty, just bad luck.

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Vettel is looking nervous and rude since things are not going as well as last year. He must grown up and realise "not all the year is Xmas" (sorry an spanish tale). If he overcome through a bad year then he will be one of the best of his era. Something like happened with Hamilton: he had his bad year (2011) and now he must deliver with a front row car. No excuses. Maybe 2012 will bring us the real measure of both.

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I think as soon as Seb and everybody else at RBR stop panicking about being behind Mclaren they will do just fine.

All the teams seem to be struggling converting quali pace to race pace. The non-blown diffuser simulators obviously need a major software update.

Lets not forget, so far we've had a street race in Australia and a wet wacky races day in Malaysia. Over the course of the season, the weather and most other things will calm down - then we'll see what the cars can actually do.

I remember DC once saying that a newey designed car was the most difficult to drive as it had such a narrow window of performance - that window has not yet opened!

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I think as soon as Seb and everybody else at RBR stop panicking about being behind Mclaren they will do just fine.

All the teams seem to be struggling converting quali pace to race pace. The non-blown diffuser simulators obviously need a major software update.

Lets not forget, so far we've had a street race in Australia and a wet wacky races day in Malaysia. Over the course of the season, the weather and most other things will calm down - then we'll see what the cars can actually do.

I remember DC once saying that a newey designed car was the most difficult to drive as it had such a narrow window of performance - that window has not yet opened!

Yup.

That's the main reason for the difference in performance for the Mercs, to mention the most notorious case. They came up with that wonderful DRS W Tape Duct Cucumbering Gizmo which gives them an advantage every time they use the DRS. Obviously, one thing is being able to use it every time you want to on Qualy and a very different matter is something that only works once every lap and only if you are less than 1s behind another car...not so useful then.

Even more so when one of your drivers manages to be less than 1s behind another just right before he crashes into the other guy and your other driver spends most of the race with guys less than 1s BEHIND him :P

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You didn't read my post then, did you, Eric?

Not talking to you now :P

You're supposed to read the other posts before you reply? :P

I read it, but my comprehension skills must have been worse than usual.

Vettel...he's still the spoiled brat who cried and cried about his own terrible mistake at Japan in 2008. Had everything handed to him, except for a haircut (at least his sometimes looks washed, whereas Pic clearly doesn't shower/shampoo). No one has any right to be on the track with him, when in reality, Vettel's not even a Skip Barber champion! He's just like most people. He's wonderful when he's winning and a real ***** when he's losing. Few lose with dignity. Button's one example in F1, the only I can think of at the moment. He just kind of tells it like it is these days. He's also, what, a decade older than Vettel, and dealt with a lot more in his career so far.

But I love that he's doing this, I really do. I like that it gives me someone to really, really dislike. It's wonderful to have someone so obnoxious in the sport; it makes me like everyone else a lot more. I've said from the start, whoever beats him this year, wins my love, and sure enough, guys are beating him. Drivers don't make a difference in F1. I make a difference in F1. :P

Though I have to ask...is a bird really that big of a deal in F1? Do drivers not get mad on the radio, or do they just not air that kind of stuff? They always seem so calm. I've never heard anyone the least bit calm in NASCAR or IndyCar, but there's also a lot more contact, poor driving, pit road stuff (since all the cars usually pit at once under yellow), etc.

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I find it quite amusing people in the past have criticised drivers for not showing much of a human side, not much humour, etc, and then Vettel gets slated for his light-hearted moments. Oh I forgot, this is F1, unless you're some sort of corporate machine, then you're clearly an unprofessional kid with no place in F1. ;)

I like drivers who speak honestly, are good leaders within their teams, recognize how fortunate they are, and are involved in something honorable away from the track, maybe have a nice family, too...or they had to fight really hard to get here...or they're Americans racing in Europe...

...but I much prefer drivers to be who they are, rather than fake it. Vettel shows way too many situational personalities. He acts like a big tough guy but we know he isn't. He acts like a happy-go-lucky kid, but now he wants you to respect him. He cries and cries and cries in Japan, then he wants you to think he's so appreciative of everything, win or lose. I just don't think he's very believable and, humor wise, I don't find him very funny. :P

Still, I'm glad he does it all. I don't like him for it, but I'm glad he does it. It's fun to fault him for the same things people probably fault me for. ;)

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So I still have it very unclear whether NK is a cucumber or is Vettel? There are some other posibility: Bernie is a cucumber, Whiting is a cucumber, the FIA is the mother of all cucumbers...

In my opinio, talking about title contenders, Vettel and Button had their share of cucumber in Malaysia. Others will have theirs in the coming races.

You cucumbers! :P

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