The Ak47 Crowd Dispersal Grand Prix Protest Of Bahrain

[HandyNZL 1]

In other words:

We are the FIA. We write down stuff on paper and others are told they have to do what we just wrote on the paper, otherwise we can...um...what can we actually do? Oh yeah, give them a fine that they have to pay.....the mug's will pay that for sure, even though the law probably says they don't have to...ha...bloody mugs I tell you. And if they don't pay, we tell them they can't drive cars and stuff...ha ha...unless of course they just want to go hire some race track and drive on it I suppose. Ha! Bet they wouldn't have anyone else to drive against though, apart from all those other guys in all those other race car categories we have nothing to do with...I mean, have so far been unable to commercially benefit from....

But our point is this, and let us be clear. We printed, on a nice clean piece of white A4 environmentally friendly recycled paper (of which was shredded using a big hungry diesel powered shredder, then put through a chemical process, bleached, and then put through a paper mill, which uses about a small towns worth of electricity to produce paper every day, then it was transported hundreds if not thousands of miles by a stinky diesel truck, and then stored in an air conditioned (aka legionnaires disease spreading device) stationary shop, until Miss Clark in administration purchased it, but not before using the local bus service that still runs around on 1985 buses, so in short, very very environmentally friendly), the Formula One 2012 Race Calendar, and this, my friends, is the only thing anyone needs as protection from a bullet, or angry young folk wanting a fairer country to live on.

Maybe they should write what they want down on paper, and then they will see the royal family wet their under pants....

Like my dear old Nan used to say, there is nothing mightier than the quill....

Sincerely,

Jean

[Quiet One 15]

As Damon Hill has clearly, unmistakable, stated, he sees no problem in going forward with the Bahrain GP, except for the fact that is completely unacceptable to go there so, yes, he fully backs FIA decision to go there no matter what.

Thanks, Damon, for your firm stand on this.

http://www.totalf1.com/full_story/view/413224/Hill_now_fully_behind_Bahrain_decision/

[BradSpeedMan 6]

As Damon Hill has clearly, unmistakable, stated, he sees no problem in going forward with the Bahrain GP, except for the fact that is completely unacceptable to go there so, yes, he fully backs FIA decision to go there no matter what.

Thanks, Damon, for your firm stand on this.

http://www.totalf1.com/full_story/view/413224/Hill_now_fully_behind_Bahrain_decision/

Don't worry, he'll change his mind 2morrow AGAIN

[Rainmaster 7]

I'm not convinced this is the last we'll hear about this, whatever the FIA says.

Anyway, if everyone does end up going they've definitely left themselves open to some seriously bad PR and potentially worse from a safety point of view, if things do escalate. Hope it all goes smoothly.

[JHS18 0]

Completely wrong decision in my opinion.

Thankfully, this is a Sky race so I don't have to see the predictable mess this causes. No doubt the outcome will not be a pretty one.

Shame. I can see arguments for and against going, but I really don't think they should be going.

Complete shambles about F1's indecisiveness over this...

[The Shadow 0]

Completely wrong decision in my opinion.

Thankfully, this is a Sky race so I don't have to see the predictable mess this causes. No doubt the outcome will not be a pretty one.

Shame. I can see arguments for and against going, but I really don't think they should be going.

Complete shambles about F1's indecisivieness over this...

Isn't this the 1st live BBC race for 2012? I thought I heard Jake Humphrey mention it in Malaysia.

Sorry. It was China that's 1st

[LabradoRacer 2]

Protesters in Bahrain burnt flags depicting Bernie's face. It's all going smoothly, folks.

[JHS18 0]

Isn't this the 1st live BBC race for 2012? I thought I heard Jake Humphrey mention it in Malaysia.

Sorry. It was China that's 1st

Yep, China's the first, then I believe the next two after that are Barcelona and Monaco.

Maybe BBC hoped all along it'd be cancelled...

[omgwtf massa 0]

It's a dumb decision. It only takes one small incident involving a team members' safety to make them learn, which is a shame. The track is terrible and boring, the landscape isn't very appealing in terms of a viewers perspective.

I wish they would cancel it for good in my opinion but oh well. We shall see what happens.

[JHS18 0]

It's a dumb decision. It only takes one small incident involving a team members' safety to make them learn, which is a shame. The track is terrible and boring, the landscape isn't very appealing in terms of a viewers perspective.

I wish they would cancel it for good in my opinion but oh well. We shall see what happens.

It seems in this instance, and not for the first time, money clouds judgement.

Predictable with McLaren being part owned by Bahraini whatever etc. Realistically, I think F1 was always going to go whatever the situation because there's too much money involved for them not to go.

Let's get it pure and simple: this decision wasn't made on the basis of what it is safe, what is moral, making a stand, blah blah blah - it was made simply because of the money.

Why else would a boring track with poor track side attendance still be on the calendar?

[JHS18 0]

Edit: double post.

[Rainmaster 7]

It seems in this instance, and not for the first time, money clouds judgement.

Predictable with McLaren being part owned by Bahraini whatever etc. Realistically, I think F1 was always going to go whatever the situation because there's too much money involved for them not to go.

Let's get it pure and simple: this decision wasn't made on the basis of what it is safe, what is moral, making a stand, blah blah blah - it was made simply because of the money.

Why else would a boring track with poor track side attendance still be on the calendar?

As much as I think going is probably the wrong thing to do, it isn't just about money. Mclaren were still part Bahrain owned last year, money was still important, yet it was cancelled then because the situation was supposedly worse.

[Massa 0]

I agree with Mark Webber, who said he just wants to race and if the FIA go ahead with the race he trusts that. I know everyone wants to just jump to the "the FIA and Ecclestone are always wrong and I am always right" mentality that just about every issue in F1 gets treated with, but...eh...they made the call, I'll be watching the race, and I hope everyone is safe. It's a messy thing and these decisions aren't as cut-and-dry outside of your computer chair and either choice would have been the wrong one, so I'll just accept the choice they made because the whole situation just sucks anyway, and certainly the "well Bahrain's a bad track anyway" thing doesn't factor in at all because that's totally unrelated to the situation...situation happens around Spa and I'd hope and trust the same people would want it canceled too, in which case, it makes no difference to throw the Bahrain Grand Prix under the bus in general (and, on another note, still irrelevant, I think Sakhir is a fine track, it just doesn't look pretty on TV, oh well, plenty of things on TV don't look too pretty to me, most of the drivers' significant others, for example, but they get airtime...I'm tired, I don't even know, I hope no one reads anything I post), and there is no way I'm ever going to EVER get into a discussion of money/greed again (I did it once and it turned into I'm a bad person and everyone else is a good person) because I'll end up banning myself or something.

What I'm trying to say: the FIA made a terrible decision but the other decision they could have made sucked too so there's going to be a race and I'm here for the racing so I'm just going to hope for the best and watch the race and stay in my own little bubble of naïve ignorance and there's nothing you can do about it because the only thing worse that not caring is not caring and pretending you really do care. Please don't respond to this.

It's a dumb decision. It only takes one small incident involving a team members' safety to make them learn, which is a shame. The track is terrible and boring, the landscape isn't very appealing in terms of a viewers perspective.

I wish they would cancel it for good in my opinion but oh well. We shall see what happens.

You better change your location if you want Brian Burke to put you on the Taranna Maple Leafs and everythink like that. (It's really okay if you don't get the joke, I only make jokes so I can laugh at my own...)

[Quiet One 15]

As the only difference between those who opposed and those who supported the race in Bahrain went down to simply matters of personal security, I don't really think there are any "good guys" here.

If some of those really didn't want to go because they would be accepting acting as propaganda for a questioned government, I would respect that.

Guys that opposed only because they feared to be shot but had no real qualms about other people being shot is a position I personally understand (I am not particularly a fan of getting shot myself) I also have no sympathy for those who are not sure about going there. After all, if we are all taking t he egotistical approach, then why would I care if any of them or all of them are blown up by some bahraini faction? I want a race! Race, mother****ers!!

From a more human approach, however, is rather disappointing that none of them really give a Sh#t about what happens in the country they will be going with all the millions in marketing parafernalia.

Oh, well

[AleHop 0]

From a more human approach, however, is rather disappointing that none of them really give a Sh#t about what happens in the country they will be going with all the millions in marketing parafernalia.

They are now in China with all the marketing parafernalia. I see no difference with them going to Bahrain from that point of view. They should skip Bahrain because there could be damage caused to team/FIA/FOM/Media/etc. workers and at the same time they would avoid damage caused to protesters.

[Quiet One 15]

They are now in China with all the marketing parafernalia. I see no difference with them going to Bahrain from that point of view. They should skip Bahrain because there could be damage caused to team/FIA/FOM/Media/etc. workers and at the same time they would avoid damage caused to protesters.

Yes they are in China and China is bad and they kill people or, worse yet, they make them eat chinese food and don't let them use google etc. Then they will go to USA and they have Guantanamo, and KFC, and they think that when they torture is for the greater good and they look better on youtube than iraqi torturers, and NASCAR and Eric and whatnot. I am not asking for F1 people to become the World Liberation Front.

But Bahrain wants to use F1 as a pivotal symbol of one ruling system that is currently being questioned in a rather violent way. I have no idea whether the protesters are 500 maniacal homicides, 1,000,000 poor peasants being robbed of their most basic human rights or 20 fans of Paris Hilton who cannot watch her porn videos on the web. The thing is that the Bahraini Government propaganda is closely tied to the event. So by going there they are giving the Government a seal of approval. There is no "We just wanna race". In such case, they will obviously become targets of the opposition. F1 in China, or US is just an event with perhaps an important propagandistic role in local politics, but hardly the way that China's or USA's Governments are looking to redeem themselves in the eyes of the world.

Ok, I'm being more confusing than usual, sorry.

[Rainmaster 7]

What he said.

[AleHop 0]

Yes they are in China and China is bad and they kill people or, worse yet, they make them eat chinese food and don't let them use google etc. Then they will go to USA and they have Guantanamo, and KFC, and they think that when they torture is for the greater good and they look better on youtube than iraqi torturers, and NASCAR and Eric and whatnot. I am not asking for F1 people to become the World Liberation Front.

But Bahrain wants to use F1 as a pivotal symbol of one ruling system that is currently being questioned in a rather violent way. I have no idea whether the protesters are 500 maniacal homicides, 1,000,000 poor peasants being robbed of their most basic human rights or 20 fans of Paris Hilton who cannot watch her porn videos on the web. The thing is that the Bahraini Government propaganda is closely tied to the event. So by going there they are giving the Government a seal of approval. There is no "We just wanna race". In such case, they will obviously become targets of the opposition. F1 in China, or US is just an event with perhaps an important propagandistic role in local politics, but hardly the way that China's or USA's Governments are looking to redeem themselves in the eyes of the world.

Ok, I'm being more confusing than usual, sorry.

People in USA can leave the country whenever they want, people in China are in a huge prison. In USA they can express their disagree with whatever their government do, in China they can't. Every big event like the Olympic Games, an F1 GP, etc. is a big big big oportunity for chinese government that they use to redeem themselves before the rest of the world. It's up to you to believe they are really like an imperfect democracy, they're not.

I think they are not giving a seal of approval to Bahrain government in the same way they are not giving an approval to any other government in the rest of the world. They can't say they just wanna race because the situation in the country is too unstable at the moment. People are being killed and what's worse, more people could die if they go there, both protesters and F1 workers. Althought they wouldn't be guilty of those deaths in some way they would be responsible for them.

[Quiet One 15]

People in USA can leave the country whenever they want, people in China are in a huge prison. In USA they can express their disagree with whatever their government do, in China they can't. Every big event like the Olympic Games, an F1 GP, etc. is a big big big oportunity for chinese government that they use to redeem themselves before the rest of the world. It's up to you to believe they are really like an imperfect democracy, they're not.

Debatable and entirely irrelevant with regards to my point

I think they are not giving a seal of approval to Bahrain government in the same way they are not giving an approval to any other government in the rest of the world. They can't say they just wanna race because the situation in the country is too unstable at the moment. People are being killed and what's worse, more people could die if they go there, both protesters and F1 workers. Althought they wouldn't be guilty of those deaths in some way they would be responsible for them.

I respectfully disagree.

[yurp 0]

If some of those really didn't want to go because they would be accepting acting as propaganda for a questioned government, I would respect that.

yep. that's why I'm not going.

[AleHop 0]

Debatable and entirely irrelevant with regards to my point

You don't want them to race in Bahrain because Alonso's car sucks.

[Quiet One 15]

You don't want them to race in Bahrain because Alonso's car sucks.

You are accusing me of wanting more races cancelled so Ferrari gets more time to develop their car? Pffft...bollocks! I'm not that shallow. I just oppose injustice.

BTW, I think Spain should be called off as well. Those guys oppressed us up until 19th century!

And Monaco as well...oh, those despicable Grimaldis!

And...ermmm...Canada! Yeah...don't even get me started about those murderous, barbaric Canadians

From then on, the season can go on as planned.

Unless Alonso's car is still crap by then. But in that case, the only way to enjoy this season would be to imagine that Massa is actually Alonso and playing the whole season backwards...

[JHS18 0]

What more evidence does Bernie or anyone else need before they'll admit it is the wrong decision?

[Massa 0]

Maybe I wrote a little too much here, and got a little too wound up...I respect all opinions and I know this is a sensitive issue. I really hope you guys know that. I just think there's a little bit of an unfairness toward the FIA (who made the choice) and Ecclestone, and I think that all starts with only blaming them and not the teams who can do no wrong go FOTA I can't wait look at all these old out-of-date tracks they're going to race at next year, weeeheeee. Their hands are dirty, too, everyone's hands are dirty, if anyone's hands are dirty.

1) Where's the evidence that people wouldn't be killed/injured if F1 canceled the race? They still would be.

2) Where's the evidence that the protesters wouldn't find another thing to protest about if not for F1? They would.

3) Where's the evidence that, while this was the wrong decision, the other decision was the right one? They were both the wrong decisions.

It sucks, I don't think anyone doesn't think it sucks. But I also don't think anyone can really say they know enough to make the "right" decision without any arrogance, and I don't think it's really fair to say the decisions are so cut-and-dry and easy to make, just as I don't find it fair to say that F1 is the cause of these problems, that these problems are worsened by F1, that this doesn't happen without F1. Yeah there are F1-specific protests but that's also a really visible way to get the protests at the forefront of the media, because five-minute-humanitarian news readers who have lost interest in that are now re-interested because it pertains to something they understand better. And that's not a knock on the protesters or anything, because I don't think it's fair to say either side is right or wrong when I'm not there or living their lives, but my point is, if not F1, there would still be protests, there would still be killings.

The problem can't be that people are getting killed in protests. Preventable deaths have been and are being caused by every government in the world, some more directly than others. So cancel all the races, then, cancel every last one of them. Cancel F1; I'm sure F1 has caused someone to have a preventable death at some point, maybe someone drank too much celebrating their driver's win in a Grand Prix and then drove home, maybe some kid thought he was Schumacher and drove recklessly on the roads, maybe someone's had serious medical complications after years in the paddock around all the exhaust and fuel and everything. But what do you know...you cancel F1...and someone's still driving drunk, and someone's still driving recklessly, and someone's still working in dangerous conditions (or not working at all with no livelihood on the streets somewhere). It's the same thing with the protests. They linked the protests to F1; F1 did not cause the protests. F1 does not stop them. F1 does not solve the issues they really care about. They are using F1 to lure people into seeing the real issues, and that is 100% fair and sensible to do, but it's not that F1 is the real issue. It's just knowing that Joe Internetnews doesn't really understand much of anything.

I know it sounds cruel and stupid and mean, whatever, but the only thing they can make their decision on is "will this be safe for the FIA, the FOM, the drivers, the crew members, etc." And the answer they came to was yes, the same answer they come to before they go to São Paulo or New Jersey or anywhere else. The teams were involved in that decision, the drivers were involved in that decision, they feel safe to go. And that's all they can do because the FIA is not a foreign diplomacy body and what they do or do not do has completely unpredictable consequences on protests in Bahrain. The world isn't as simple as "do this, don't do that."

If running Bahrain's the wrong choice, don't watch it. If you care that much, you can't watch the race. You watch the race, you are supporting the decision, so that's up to anyone to decide how much they really care and I respect anyone who says "no, I will not watch this race," because I'm not going to say anyone's wrong for believing this was a worse decision than canceling; that's why I said both decisions are wrong honestly.

[JHS18 0]

Look at last year's cancellation - that was the right decision that time, and the situation has hardly changed, so why go now? Amnesty International who probably know more about the situation than all of us put together say the situation there is no different to 2011. Their word is good enough for me.

F1's turned a blind eye to all the comments from people who know better than they would. I respect the difficulty of the decision that has been made, but when you've got human rights groups, politicians, etc, all saying it is wrong to go, who the hell does F1 think it is to turn a blind eye to that? Even Bernie Ecclestone says he doesn't entirely know the full situation - so if that's the case, wouldn't it be wise to listen to organisations and people who do? I found it incredibly amusing that he can claim the press hasn't got a clue what's going on, and then he confesses he doesn't either, whilst still defending the race.

I know what I'm going to say next isn't going to be popular - but let's for sake of argument look at it like this. Okay, it is true that some other countries probably have an equally dodgy Government or whatever - but look at China. Are there massed protests at the moment? Nope. Are there massed protests on the scale of the situation in Bahrain going on in any other countries F1 visits? Nope. There are protests going on in Bahrain right now - and there have been for some time. Are there any signs that those protests will die down any time soon? Probably not. On a sport that prides itself on safety, I find it completely ridiculous that they just choose to ignore a blatant safety hazard.

Who knows what will happen next Sunday? All we know is protestors say they will target all three days of the event. What if that means they somehow manage to get onto the track? What if media or mechanics are targeted? What if someone in F1 is injured? If that happens, F1 will be in deep trouble for even going there - knowing that people like Amnesty International, etc have said they shouldn't go. Then what? Well they've effectively brought it on themselves, so maybe they should be left to face the consequences of even going there in the first place.

I'm just glad I won't have to see this play out live.