Msc V. Sen: Hit Uncle, Hit Nephew

[MichealJS 0]

When I was watching the race someone in the chat room said "kill father, kill son."

I was shocked and checked and learned that MSC indeed collided with A.Senna in France 1992.

20 years. Amazing.

PS:maybe God is telling MSC to retire. After he retires I'll be a Rosberg fan.

[Massa 0]

I'll ask this:

Was Senna's move legal? He made two moves. I seem to recall the new FIA blocking rule giving you one. However, neither move was too distinct, but he definitely made multiple moves.

Regardless of legality, Schumacher is still a moron for trying to chop to the inside last second. I know it's easy to be the Monday morning quarterback, but I just figured a driver of his experience would say "alright, just move outside into the grass and get on with it." It just didn't make sense to try to chop to Senna's inside like that when he should have just had an off and hoped it was harmless.

Not saying Senna should have forced Schumacher to make that choice, of course, but Schumacher took the 100% "we're going to wreck" option rather than the "there's a possibility I run wide and off, get back on, no damage done" option. Weird to me, I guess, but I've never gotten out of youth karting leages and video games while he has, so maybe my instincts are all wrong.

So is it within the rules, as they are written and not as you think they should be written, for Senna to have done what he did?

[Quiet One 15]

Senna moved only once to defend, and then he actually tried to move out of the way because Schumi's car was coming in FAST!

That is how it seemed to me, at least.

Just as I am writing this somebody commented that Schumi is being investigated for having his DRS activated outside the DRS zone, which might explain the speed diffeential bewteen both of them and the subsequent clash.

[Massa 0]

Okay, so...let's say Schumacher's DRS is activated outside of the DRS zone.

Is that an FIA error? In which case, they can't penalize him for that. Or is there a way for Mercedes to circumvent the DRS rules?

Now I have to see it again. Did Senna go high-low-high or low-high-low? If he ended going high, he was out of the rules. If he ended going low, maybe not, but do the rules say "defensive" move in the wording?

[Delta 0]

Senna's tyres were worn. Senna moved anticipating that Michael was going to do something that he didn't with the intention of letting him go by and Michael creamed into the back of him. Racing incident.

[JHS18 0]

Reports that Schumacher gets a five place grid drop for Monaco. Ouch.

That's not going to help his already slim chances. Generally, the further back in the pack you are, the more cars there are to hit...

[Delta 0]

Kinda surprised that he got penalised to be honest, too many racing incidents are resulting in penalties for my liking. These things happen in F1, I don't think Michael did anything worse than making a minor breaking misjudgement

[LabradoRacer 2]

A 5-place penalty for Monaco. Sad to see Schumi finding a new nadir with each race.

[Massa 0]

I don't like that penalty. Penalties should impact the session you were in, not the next one. I understand penalizing a guy who retired from the race is pointless, but if it ruined his own race, why does it even need to be penalized? I think the loss of potential championship points is a big enough penalty to a driver. I've never been a fan of penalizing someone who ruined their own race. Especially not when the penalty is applied to an unrelated session. He screwed up in the race, not in Monaco qualifying. Silly, silly, silly.

That said, it's just been a case of not meant to be for Schumacher. Some things are, some things aren't, try to explain it however you want, it's just reality. Things happen with ease, other things never work out. It's not working out for Schumacher for all sorts of reasons. He doesn't get results, so he's not good enough anymore, and that's it.

[JHS18 0]

Kinda surprised that he got penalised to be honest, too many racing incidents are resulting in penalties for my liking. These things happen in F1, I don't think Michael did anything worse than making a minor breaking misjudgement

I don't like that penalty. Penalties should impact the session you were in, not the next one. I understand penalizing a guy who retired from the race is pointless, but if it ruined his own race, why does it even need to be penalized? I think the loss of potential championship points is a big enough penalty to a driver. I've never been a fan of penalizing someone who ruined their own race. Especially not when the penalty is applied to an unrelated session. He screwed up in the race, not in Monaco qualifying. Silly, silly, silly.

Agree with all this. It is to be expected that in racing accidents will take place from time to time. I think there is a good argument to be had that there are too many penalties in F1 at the moment, and sometimes they're incredibly inconsistent from one race to the next.

Eric speaks a lot of sense in that comment (surprisingly ) - it is fairly academic penalising a driver who is out of the race anyway. But I guess that penalty was more on the basis that he wrecked Senna's race as well. Had Senna continued, I guess they wouldn't have taken any further action, but because it took out another driver, they had to.

It sort of spoils the show in a way. Say by some miracle Michael has a genuine race winning potential car in Monaco then it sort of negatively effects the overall result, but hey, it isn't the first time a driver has been penalised for contact and it certainly won't be the last.

[Delta 0]

That said, it's just been a case of not meant to be for Schumacher. Some things are, some things aren't, try to explain it however you want, it's just reality. Things happen with ease, other things never work out. It's not working out for Schumacher for all sorts of reasons. He doesn't get results, so he's not good enough anymore, and that's it.

A lot of things are different. Has Michael lost some of his ability? Maybe... but I think the biggest factor is that he no longer has a car and tyre package built explicitly around his driving style. The tyres are equal, the cars are as close to equal as they've ever been. The conditions just don't exist for him to dominate any more. I still think his returning was a mistake to be honest, he retired with a bang and so far his return has proven nothing. He doesn't need any more money, the records he's set are probably never going to be broken. He should have kept his gloves in the garage.

But I guess that penalty was more on the basis that he wrecked Senna's race as well. Had Senna continued, I guess they wouldn't have taken any further action, but because it took out another driver, they had to.

Yeah, that probably is the justification being used. And if so, it's wrong. Wheel to wheel racing in open c#ckpit cars that break from 200 to 60 in 3 seconds, corner at 5G and top 200MPH is always going to be risky, and one of those risks is that occasionally a driver will make a mistake and you'll be caught up as an innocent party. I feel the legislators in F1 need to stop penalising honest errors and just crack down on things that are genuinely dangerous or reckless. Michael wasn't reckless he was just caught off guard. He had to react to a sudden change in the blink of an eye, I was never Michael's greatest fan but he isn't a damn robot, there was little he could have done.

[F1 FANatic 1]

I think the penalty is a bit over done.

Looking at the inccident I think both drivers were equally at fault. Senna was way to indecisive. He went a little to the right, a little to the left, back to the right and back to the left and then a hard kink left but half way through he decided to just go strait. Schumi on the other had believed that the driver infront of him had a plan. Which was probably the bigger mistake. You always have to assume the driver infront is asleep. And Schumi then could not decide what to do and then senna pulled half way infront of him and schumi hoped that he would pull more to the left and in the end the strait was over and both guys looked into the mountains with a stove pipe. If i may translate a german saying literally.

[brambilla 0]

... so far his return has proven nothing. He doesn't need any more money, the records he's set are probably never going to be broken. He should have ...

Until he takes over a struggling backmarker team, and renames it "Schumi Racing" , only for it to fall apart ... he doesnt have enough money

[Quiet One 15]

I think the penalty is a bit over done.

Looking at the inccident I think both drivers were equally at fault. Senna was way to indecisive. He went a little to the right, a little to the left, back to the right and back to the left and then a hard kink left but half way through he decided to just go strait. Schumi on the other had believed that the driver infront of him had a plan. Which was probably the bigger mistake. You always have to assume the driver infront is asleep. And Schumi then could not decide what to do and then senna pulled half way infront of him and schumi hoped that he would pull more to the left and in the end the strait was over and both guys looked into the mountains with a stove pipe. If i may translate a german saying literally.

This. Semmed like one of those hallway dances in which you meet a person in the middle of a straight hallway or corridor and spend a few awkward seconds as each one tries to allow the other one to pass, ending up in some synchronized sillyness.

Schumacher more to blame than Senna, but a racing incident in any case.

[Rainmaster 7]

Edit: Something amazing used to be here, honest.

[Rainmaster 7]

I watched it again. I don't think Senna was at fault, whatsoever (unless you count driving around on degraded tyres as a crime these days). 1) MS was never even close to being alongside, 2) Schumi had room on the outside in any case. So any moves by Senna were irrelevant because MS could have easily stayed on the outside! Why he chose to dive in is beyond me. I can only speculate that he intended on following Senna through the corner? Or he thought Senna would close the door completely (which he didn't)? Or perhaps he was attempting to sell a dummy and was heading for a pass on the inside? Either way: as there are no points for contact whatever scenario he was attempting he obviously misjudged Senna's braking. A fairly small but unusual mistake for a racer (but always more likely in this era of different tyre strategies, DRS and KERS). Penalties which affect the following race are ugly, and don't exactly serve justice to the other driver in this case either. But I do think it's important to assign blame for an incident if there is any; and assigning blame without a penalty wouldn't make a lot of sense. 5 places is fair enough.

Schumi clearly hasn't learned a thing in all those years!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfmJ8mivNxw

[Delta 0]

Until he takes over a struggling backmarker team, and renames it "Schumi Racing" , only for it to fall apart ... he doesnt have enough money

I'd be quite surprised if he did that to be honest. A look at how Marussia, Caterham, and HRT are fairing should be enough to put anyone off coming into the sport as a team owner without some form of extraneous financial backing (and I'm not talking pithy amounts like the odd million here and there I'm talking about seriously competitive cash)

[dribbler 6]

This. Semmed like one of those hallway dances in which you meet a person in the middle of a straight hallway or corridor and spend a few awkward seconds as each one tries to allow the other one to pass, ending up in some synchronized sillyness.

I like this analogy.

Michael made a poor judgement.

Now, we have a Mercedes that is becoming distinctly average (as the other teams find their feet) and a Michael who is returning to errors under pressure. It's starting to feel like 2010 again. Very soon (if not already) Michael's opportunity for a win (or even a podium) before bowing out is slipping away.

Having said that, the pay driver anomoly gives me hope!

[Guest]

I think the video does show senna slightly weaving.

However, schumi was going to hit him - no matter which way senna was moving.

[Argento Reloaded 1]

I watched it again. I don't think Senna was at fault, whatsoever (unless you count driving around on degraded tyres as a crime these days). 1) MS was never even close to being alongside, 2) Schumi had room on the outside in any case. So any moves by Senna were irrelevant because MS could have easily stayed on the outside! Why he chose to dive in is beyond me. I can only speculate that he intended on following Senna through the corner? Or he thought Senna would close the door completely (which he didn't)? Or perhaps he was attempting to sell a dummy and was heading for a pass on the inside? Either way: as there are no points for contact whatever scenario he was attempting he obviously misjudged Senna's braking. A fairly small but unusual mistake for a racer (but always more likely in this era of different tyre strategies, DRS and KERS). Penalties which affect the following race are ugly, and don't exactly serve justice to the other driver in this case either. But I do think it's important to assign blame for an incident if there is any; and assigning blame without a penalty wouldn't make a lot of sense. 5 places is fair enough.

Schumi clearly hasn't learned a thing in all those years!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfmJ8mivNxw

But Bruno seemed to learnt to be a classy person not a judge above his pairs asking for explanations...