Gilles V.

Has Hamilton Become As Good As Alonso?

228 posts in this topic

You're as good as your last race. With Hamilton this season he's been doing well everywhere so he closer to the very top than ever. The best I don't know, as good as the best yes he is.

Don´t agree. The main difference between nando and lewis is -or was- last year: nando seems to be utterly consistent driving at the edge with only a few mistakes; Lewis is doing the same this year but last year was a bad one for him. Maybe he has grown up and and from now on he will be always in the top 3 as nando did in the last years.

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Don´t agree. The main difference between nando and lewis is -or was- last year: nando seems to be utterly consistent driving at the edge with only a few mistakes; Lewis is doing the same this year but last year was a bad one for him. Maybe he has grown up and and from now on he will be always in the top 3  as nando did in the last years.

I only consider Hamilton's 2012 season where I see him driving maturely. Any other season Aloso's been the better of the two so there's no point talking about previous seasons.

After 7 races, this season so far I think it's fair to say he's as good as Alonso. I think he really is and I give him credit for his new approach to racing because I think it's a permanent one. To say his career will be better or as good as Alonso's we'll have to wait.

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We knew he was as fast as FA, but he was sometimes too anxious at the start or to anxious to overtake and made mistakes. This year, his speed is still there but he is now able to save his tyres and did not make any major (unless I'm forgetting one) mistakes in his overtaking manoeuvres or at the start. He only won one race, but is still in the fight for the top spot (which shows consistency). He severely beats Button in the same car, a little bit like FA does over Massa.

I' not quite ready yet to say he has joined the master at the top of the heap, but if he continues like this all year long and wins the WDC in such a fierce fight for the title, I will be forced to admit that he is as good as the master.

What do you think?

Button left him trailing in his wake last year. There is rarely more than 2-3/10ths between them unless Jenson has had a mare of some kind. He's certainly a much better asset to McLaren than Massa is to Ferrari.

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No wonder he was having those pit stop problems. He was using a 2 year old car. biggrin.png

My badblush.png

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He's certainly a much better asset to McLaren than Massa is to Ferrari.

No doubt about that. JB should be back, which should help LH in his quest for the title. Vettel can count on Weber (or is it the other way around?), but Massa is not there for FA, and that is a big handicap to overcome in such a tightn race. I hope Massa can be back two, because if he is not, FA's chances to win the title will be slim at best.

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No doubt about that. JB should be back, which should help LH in his quest for the title. Vettel can count on Weber (or is it the other way around?), but Massa is not there for FA, and that is a big handicap to overcome in such a tightn race. I hope Massa can be back two, because if he is not, FA's chances to win the title will be slim at best.

Unfortunately you're right.

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Not so terrible. He might not win this season but he will still come out firmly established as one of the legendary drivers of all time (this is the kind of stuff nobody will believe me, btw! :P) which is one of the things that still LH has to prove.

And, frankly, this is one of "those" seasons. Winning might be sweet, but he can still hope for next time. So even if he doesn't win the WDC and being as competitive as he is, he seems to still be pretty much enjoying driving his nuts off in a hell of a season.

Fortes Fortuna Juvat, and this season seems to prove just so.

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Yep. Plus it's always exaggerated how much having a strong team mate helps the other driver with a shot at the title. Alonso doesn't need Massa's help to win a title; he hasn't had it so far and has been at the front and is still near the front. In fact, as far as I can tell having two strong drivers in the same team is more likely to hurt title chances (although that's exaggerated too). That seems to be the way Ferrari see it too, and with that in mind, Hamilton or Vettel fans should hope their respective team mates don't take too many points from them.

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Yep. Plus it's always exaggerated how much having a strong team mate helps the other driver with a shot at the title.

Well, here is my point of view:

Take a situation where, with 5 races to go, only a handful of points separate 5 different drivers, which is very possible since we have had 7 different winners so far, and this trend should continue until the end of the year because 1) no car is being dominant, 2) the two Lotus cars being now strong enough to win; 3) Button who will no doubt be back in the mix few; 4) there will be a few surprises.

Now, let say Hamilton is in second place during a race and that Vettel runs fourth behind Jenson. Let’s also say Hamilton is trailing Vettel in the WDC by a few points. Jenson is a strong driver in a strong car and Vettel will have to take big risks to pass him if he is able at all. This is just one example of the edge having two cars in the top positions during a super tight race to the title can give a driver.

A strong teammate can also slow the opponents down just enough to allow his teammate to gain a few very useful seconds.

Here is another example:

Let say Webber leads the WDC before the last race with 2 point over Hamilton and that during the race he is in fifth position (10 points) and Hamilton in 4th (12 points) with Vettel in second place. So, if Hamilton passes Vettel he wins the WDC because even if their total would be the same, Hamilton has one win more than Weber in the season, but if he can't pass Vettel, Weber wins it.

There are dozens of such examples.

Isn’t nice to have a strong teammate in such a situation? Especially that these situations will inevitably occur this year in such a tight race to the title.

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Well, here is my point of view:

Take a situation where, with 5 races to go, only a handful of points separate 5 different drivers, which is very possible since we have had 7 different winners so far, and this trend should continue until the end of the year because 1) no car is being dominant, 2) the two Lotus cars being now strong enough to win; 3) Button who will no doubt be back in the mix few; 4) there will be a few surprises.

Now, let say Hamilton is in second place during a race and that Vettel runs fourth behind Jenson. Let’s also say Hamilton is trailing Vettel in the WDC by a few points. Jenson is a strong driver in a strong car and Vettel will have to take big risks to pass him if he is able at all. This is just one example of the edge having two cars in the top positions during a super tight race to the title can give a driver.

A strong teammate can also slow the opponents down just enough to allow his teammate to gain a few very useful seconds.

Here is another example:

Let say Webber leads the WDC before the last race with 2 point over Hamilton and that during the race he is in fifth position (10 points) and Hamilton in 4th (12 points) with Vettel in second place. So, if Hamilton passes Vettel he wins the WDC because even if their total would be the same, Hamilton has one win more than Weber in the season, but if he can't pass Vettel, Weber wins it.

There are dozens of such examples.

Isn’t nice to have a strong teammate in such a situation? Especially that these situations will inevitably occur this year in such a tight race to the title.

I never said it can't be helpful sometimes, and especially in a tight battle. I just think it's rare that having a strong number two driver actually helps decide a title (and even less likely to in this awful era of races where overtaking is easier). Even where you might argue it did, let's say Massa yielding wins to Raikkonen in 2007, you'd also have to look at the points lost to Massa earlier in the season (easy to quantify), and how much having a strong team mate affected the performance of Raikkonen more generally (impossible to quantify), which could be negative or positive. So it goes both ways, imo.

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I think Alonso's a great driver. He might be the best on the grid and certainly of the three guys that you're sort of forced to pick from when it comes to the title (Vettel, Hamilton, and Alonso), Big Nando's my preference...

...but I think there's an element of being stuck in 2006 going on, and I think there's always been, for whatever reason, a tendency to under-estimate the cars he's been in. Every car Alonso has had a less-than-stellar season is allegedly a complete pig (and yeah, this year's Ferrari was, but it's also a lot better now) that should have finished last in the championship if not for Alonso. Every car Hamilton has had a less-than-stellar season is allegedly a top ride that any other driver could win the title in. My point being, I think we over-value Alonso's fifth place finishes and under-value Hamilton's. At the end of the day, they pay the same points. We expect too much from Hamilton and too little from Alonso, though I guess it's time to start expecting a championship from both. Neither one's been relevant since 2008 because they haven't won titles. It seems weird to me that we can call Alonso the benchmark for Hamilton when Alonso's never held accountable for the fact that he hasn't won a title since 2006. With wide rear wings, on Michelin tires, with refueling, against a grid of different teams and drivers.

The benchmark is Vettel. I think Alonso and Hamilton are both great drivers and I'm impressed with Alonso this year in that car. But the benchmark is actually Vettel because he's the only one of the three with a recent championship (two, in fact). No one's noticing Vettel at all this year and that's exactly why I'm convinced he'll quietly win the title. He's just right there, every weekend, and it's great to see him overtaking and defending so well. He hasn't really had to before.

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I think Alonso's a great driver. He might be the best on the grid and certainly of the three guys that you're sort of forced to pick from when it comes to the title (Vettel, Hamilton, and Alonso), Big Nando's my preference...

...but I think there's an element of being stuck in 2006 going on, and I think there's always been, for whatever reason, a tendency to under-estimate the cars he's been in. Every car Alonso has had a less-than-stellar season is allegedly a complete pig (and yeah, this year's Ferrari was, but it's also a lot better now) that should have finished last in the championship if not for Alonso. Every car Hamilton has had a less-than-stellar season is allegedly a top ride that any other driver could win the title in. My point being, I think we over-value Alonso's fifth place finishes and under-value Hamilton's. At the end of the day, they pay the same points. We expect too much from Hamilton and too little from Alonso, though I guess it's time to start expecting a championship from both. Neither one's been relevant since 2008 because they haven't won titles. It seems weird to me that we can call Alonso the benchmark for Hamilton when Alonso's never held accountable for the fact that he hasn't won a title since 2006. With wide rear wings, on Michelin tires, with refueling, against a grid of different teams and drivers.

The benchmark is Vettel. I think Alonso and Hamilton are both great drivers and I'm impressed with Alonso this year in that car. But the benchmark is actually Vettel because he's the only one of the three with a recent championship (two, in fact). No one's noticing Vettel at all this year and that's exactly why I'm convinced he'll quietly win the title. He's just right there, every weekend, and it's great to see him overtaking and defending so well. He hasn't really had to before.

thbup.gif

yeah, I'm saying it again. You are wise beyond your years my friend... this post came from somewhere very deep. If you probably write a sad play I will cry. You and Steve have the ability to move me man...

Edited by BradSpeedMan

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[quote name='Massa' timestamp='1339857551' post='346924']
I think Alonso's a great driver. He might be the best on the grid and certainly of the three guys that you're sort of forced to pick from when it comes to the title (Vettel, Hamilton, and Alonso), Big Nando's my preference...

...but I think there's an element of being stuck in 2006 going on, and I think there's always been, for whatever reason, a tendency to under-estimate the cars he's been in. Every car Alonso has had a less-than-stellar season is allegedly a complete pig (and yeah, this year's Ferrari was, but it's also a lot better now) that should have finished last in the championship if not for Alonso. Every car Hamilton has had a less-than-stellar season is allegedly a top ride that any other driver could win the title in. My point being, I think we over-value Alonso's fifth place finishes and under-value Hamilton's. At the end of the day, they pay the same points. We expect too much from Hamilton and too little from Alonso, though I guess it's time to start expecting a championship from both. Neither one's been relevant since 2008 because they haven't won titles. It seems weird to me that we can call Alonso the benchmark for Hamilton when Alonso's never held accountable for the fact that he hasn't won a title since 2006. With wide rear wings, on Michelin tires, with refueling, against a grid of different teams and drivers.

The benchmark is Vettel. I think Alonso and Hamilton are both great drivers and I'm impressed with Alonso this year in that car. But the benchmark is actually Vettel because he's the only one of the three with a recent championship (two, in fact). [b][i]No one's noticing Vettel at all this year[/i][/b] and that's exactly why I'm convinced he'll quietly win the title. He's just right there, every weekend, and it's great to see him overtaking and defending so well. He hasn't really had to before.
[/quote]
i don't know what are you trying to say!
you probably want to say he gets less space than in 2011 cause there are more winners this season.
but if you look at all web news, magazines or tv shows there is always Vettel. everybody is talking about Vettel.
from TopGear, to David Letterman Show, to every new track demo's etc.

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This question is a joke, right?

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This question is a joke, right?

Your question ? or the topic question?

In case it is the latter, could you please explain the joke ?

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Don't worry about KG, she thinks Jenson "two points in four races" Button is the best! eekout.gif

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Haha! Well he'd beat Rossi in an F1 car and you're just jealous because his bumfluff is longer than yours. :P:D

Gilles baby. I meant the topic question. 'Almost' as good as Alonso? Fair enough FA has 2 more championships under his paella, but Lewis is a champion too. I think that may put them on an equal footing. The best driver is the current champion and as much as I hate to say it, its Sauerkraut Sunday in F1.

And yes, Jenson Button really is the best. So there.

And Gilles Villeneuve is a legend. So there.

And I'm off to watch Inception again for the 45th time, so I can stare at Eames. So there.

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Haha! Well he'd beat Rossi in an F1 car and you're just jealous because his bumfluff is longer than yours. tongue.pngbiggrin.png

Gilles baby. I meant the topic question. 'Almost' as good as Alonso? Fair enough FA has 2 more championships under his paella, but Lewis is a champion too. I think that may put them on an equal footing. The best driver is the current champion and as much as I hate to say it, its Sauerkraut Sunday in F1.

And yes, Jenson Button really is the best. So there.

And Gilles Villeneuve is a legend. So there.

And I'm off to watch Inception again for the 45th time, so I can stare at Eames. So there.

I think I'm going to change my name, Gilles V. I'm begining to feel pressure when people address me with this name; big shoes to fill! I just wanted to underscore the anniversary of his death when I started here, but now I think I'm going to be called Jean-Pierre, if at all possible.

Button is good, but the best? Hum... na. Top 5, may be top 3 IMHO (Vettel is not top 3 yet in my book)

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Haha! Well he'd beat Rossi in an F1 car and you're just jealous because his bumfluff is longer than yours. tongue.pngbiggrin.png

Gilles baby. I meant the topic question. 'Almost' as good as Alonso? Fair enough FA has 2 more championships under his paella, but Lewis is a champion too. I think that may put them on an equal footing. The best driver is the current champion and as much as I hate to say it, its Sauerkraut Sunday in F1.

And yes, Jenson Button really is the best. So there.

And Gilles Villeneuve is a legend. So there.

And I'm off to watch Inception again for the 45th time, so I can stare at Eames. So there.

Steph - ask the doc's to put that bit of brain back in...because before hand you knew that TWO was only ONE greater than ONE and not TWO which would be THREE :P

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I think I'm going to be called Jean-Pierre, if at all possible.

It is, in fact.

Click "Gilles V." in the black bar up at the top.

Click "My Settings" in the menu.

Click "Display Name" in the sidebar and fill it out.

Note that you will still use "Gilles V." to log in, regardless of your display name.

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I miss Maure. frusty.gif

He's gone to find Gorilla's in the mist

Oh get a room.......

There isn't one big enough for the love

The best driver is the current champion and as much as I hate to say it, its Sauerkraut Sunday in F1.

What, like at the start of 1997? Why are you talking like a stupid person?

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