Gilles V.

Has Hamilton Become As Good As Alonso?

228 posts in this topic

Sadly the chimp from which her replacement brain came was a Benobo and if you watch enough Attenborough documentaries, you'll know that they spend most of their time doing one thing (and that's not counting!!!) smile.png

So you're saying that her new goal in life is picking nits from other peoples hair? eusa_think.gif

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Not so terrible. He might not win this season but he will still come out firmly established as one of the legendary drivers of all time (this is the kind of stuff nobody will believe me, btw! tongue.png) which is one of the things that still LH has to prove.

And, frankly, this is one of "those" seasons. Winning might be sweet, but he can still hope for next time. So even if he doesn't win the WDC and being as competitive as he is, he seems to still be pretty much enjoying driving his nuts off in a hell of a season.

Fortes Fortuna Juvat, and this season seems to prove just so.

Q.E.D.

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Today was a good reminder of how Hamilton is not as good as Alonso.

Edited by Rainmaster

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:lol:

In some ways, I wish they'd rebroadcast the races, or even sell them for a decent price through F1's website on iTunes or something, with the entire race just following one driver (not necessarily on-board; I mean, all cameras are picking up a lot of stuff we never see). I'd love to see everything Alonso did to get to first, not just everything I got to see in a ninety minute broadcast, roughly thirty minutes of which were advertisements/in-broadcast promotions/music video bumpers, covering a twenty-three car field. I know FOM never would, and don't need to, but I'm not sure it would be the worst idea to pick one driver each race who had a compelling journey (of course, five or six drivers did this time around, but a normal race, you usually have one huge stand-out), use footage they already have recorded, and produce that driver's entire race in something you could sell to all you kids with your gizmos and gadgets and contraptions and things.

I realize this post was dumb and stupid because it has no relevance to reality but it's just a passing thought. I want to see the magic and obviously you can't get everything on the broadcast (FOM do an awesome job producing races, I mean that sincerely, watch any other series and you realize how good F1's coverage is...if there's nothing happening with the "stars" or the leader, they show something else, they're really tremendous producers and directors and all that...I love it) and you can't always forecast what will be more significant at the end of the race, showing one battle or another (i.e. Alonso passing to get into P8 or 9 on the start might not seem as important when it happens as Vettel pulling away and Grosjean and Kobayashi getting up, and obviously, they showed the right thing at the time, which was the leaders and Grosjean and all them).

I want to see what I didn't see now.

Of course watching the race again would show me even more because I'm too dense to pick up all of it as it is, but anyway...this is all useless crap that will never happen. :P

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Actually at least some years ago you could buy the whole season in video showing not just the race as shown from TV but also the highlights, the full race from many drivers point of view and even from the pits (boring as it sounds).

I don't know if they still publish that for every season. (I kinda...errr....accidentally downloaded a few of those from a torrent which of course was never my intention) :whistle:

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The F1 website has a race wrap up video set to some high paced techno beat - usually has bits that don't make the broadcast.

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But what kind of question is this, if Hamilton demonstrated being much superior pilor than the spanish swindler even in the year of his debut in Formula 1 (2007), he got more pole positions, more points and only the envy and lack of proffecionalism of the spanish gay deprived Hamilton, which in my opinion is the brightes talent in actual Formula 1, from his first championship, thus alonso gifted the cup to Raikonen. In my opinion the only thing alonso has is basenes, and he only demnostrated being a quite dirty and envious pilot, while Hamilton is a genious and a very correct guy.

It's not very smart to compare a genious with latin idiot that only rely on his dirty play and his luck (which unfortunately demonstrates to be big one).

Edited by turbokick

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But what kind of question is this, if Hamilton demostrated being much superior pilor than the spanish swindler even in the year of his debut in Formula 1 (2007), he got more pole positions, more points and only the envy and lack of proffecionalism of the spanish gay deprived Hamilton, which in my opinion is the brightes talent in actual Formula 1, from his first championship, thus alonso gifted the cup to Raikonen. In my opinion the only thing alonso has is basenes, and he only demostrated being a quite dirty and envious pilot, while Hamilton is a genious and a very correct guy.

It's not very smart to compare a genious with latin swindler that only rely on his dirty play and his luck (which unfortunately demonstrates to be big one).

This is what happens when illiteracy and stupidity crash into the language barrier..

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This is what happens when illiteracy and stupidity crash into the language barrier..

Well, I think that insulting you don't demonstrate to be quite well-bred ang intelligent and yes, I'm not an Englishman and my english is far from beeing good, but this is not an English grammar forum, but a Formula 1 dedicated one, if you've got something to say to disprove my thesis - submit it, if the only thing you can offer is your hostility and bad manners then your utility and motoring knowledge is equal to 0 (I guess your intelligency level also) and you can keep them to yourself.

Maybe it's not the truth that Hamilton receives an unfair treat, and what happend yesterday in your opinion is something quite normal - the ¨job¨ McLaren's crew did for Hamilton, the more than 10 seconds lost, the wasted 2 posicion (he entered in the boxes 2 and returned to the race 8), your favourite Alonso who entered in boxes 7 and went out 3, I guess in your opinion this is Alonso's ¨great¨ driving, and the brightness of his talent...I think it's pointless to ask you about the ¨racing accident¨ that Hamilton suffered in the final laps caused by other ¨great¨ talent - Maldonado, and how many ¨racing accidents¨ has suffered Hamilton only in the last two years and where he could be without such ¨accidents¨ (that always happen to him).

And what to say about Alonso's finishing of yesterday's race, without taking his car in the boxes...For the same thing Hamilton was punished some weeks ago in a quite severe way (losing 15 posicions, inspite of winning the pole position), but I think all these things doesn't matter for you, the important thing for you is Alonso wins (by all means) and my english. What a pity...

Edited by turbokick

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Well, I think that insulting you don't demonstrate to be quite well-bred ang intelligent and yes, I'm not an Englishman and my english is far from beeing good, but this is not an English grammar forum, but a Formula 1 dedicated one, if you've got something to say to disprove my thesis submit it, if the only thing you can offer is your hostility and bad manners then your utility and motoring knowledge is equal to 0 (I guess your intelligency level also) and you can keep them to yourself.

Maybe it's not the truth that Hamilton receives an unfair treat, and what happend yesterday in your opinion is something quite normal - the ¨job¨ McLaren's crew did for Hamilton, the more than 10 seconds lost, the wasted 2 posicion (he entered 2 and returned to the race 8), your favourite Alonso that entered in boxes 7 and went out 3, I guess in your opinion this is Alonso's ¨great¨ driving, and the brightness of his talent...I think it's pointless to ask you about the ¨driving accident¨ that Hamilton suffered in the final laps caused by other ¨great¨ talent - Maldonado, and how many ¨driving accidents¨ has suffered Hamilton only in the last two years and where he could be without such ¨accidents¨ (that always happen to him).

And what to say about Alonso's finishing of yesterday's race, without taking his car in the boxes, for almost the same thing Hamilton was punished some weeks ago, but I think all these things doesn't matter for you, the important thing for you is Alonso wins (by all means) and my english. What a pity...

He's more a Hamilton fan than a Alonso fan...

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He's more a Hamilton fan than a Alonso fan...

Yes sir.

Edited by turbokick

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Fascinating.

Clueless, but fascinating.

Welcome aboard Turbokick, you might have guessed by now that your views and mine will probably not be compatible.

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Hammy reminds me of "the little girl, with the little curl".

When he's good -he's very, very good - and when he's bad - he's horrid!

When Alonso (or kimi, or webber, or most others) have a bad day they still finish in the points, when Hammy has a bad day he usually finishes in the tyre wall.

Even though Maldonado managed to turn right in a left-hander, Hammy shouldn't have been tangling with anyone when his tyres were obviously dying.

Better to drop a couple of points, rather than all - I honestly think this is a great year for him to challenge for the WDC, but most podiums rather than most wins may do it.

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But what kind of question is this, if Hamilton demostrated being much superior pilor than the spanish swindler even in the year of his debut in Formula 1 (2007), he got more pole positions, more points and only the envy and lack of proffecionalism of the spanish gay deprived Hamilton, which in my opinion is the brightes talent in actual Formula 1, from his first championship, thus alonso gifted the cup to Raikonen. In my opinion the only thing alonso has is basenes, and he only demostrated being a quite dirty and envious pilot, while Hamilton is a genious and a very correct guy.

It's not very smart to compare a genious with latin swindler that only rely on his dirty play and his luck (which unfortunately demonstrates to be big one).

Cut the racist undertones and homophobia.

Thanks.

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Fascinating.

Clueless, but fascinating.

Welcome aboard Turbokick, you might have guessed by now that your views and mine will probably not be compatible.

Thanks man, I don't think that we are here to have views that coincide at all costs. Regards.

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But what kind of question is this, if Hamilton demostrated being much superior pilor than the spanish swindler even in the year of his debut in Formula 1 (2007), he got more pole positions, more points and only the envy and lack of proffecionalism of the spanish gay deprived Hamilton, which in my opinion is the brightes talent in actual Formula 1, from his first championship, thus alonso gifted the cup to Raikonen.

Yes, that's what happened with Alonso in your dreams. Lewisterics aside, most of F1 fans, if not all, know what happened the 2007 season or the "Equal Treatment Farce" season. Equal treatment within McLaren? No. Equal treatment before the FIA? Nope. From Monaco to Hungaroring. And beyond.

We can talk about 2007 for ages. Like Monaco 2007 where Alonso was faster than Hamilton and if you look at the times lap by lap he would have never passed Alonso no matter how many laps he remained out pushing. He could only risk his 2nd place and McLaren 1-2 if a Safety Car was deployed. When you are faster you pick the best strategy because the only choice for the other driver is to start with a heavier car or a three-stopper. If two drivers pick the same strategy and one is faster you know what the result is beforehand.

You should have a look at Indianapolis 2007 where Alonso was faster FP1, FP2, FP3, Q1, Q2 and only Hamilton grabbed the pole because they gave Hamilton an extra lap so the rookie had a lighter car. That happened many times during the season, many times he took advantage of the extra lap and a lighter car. I could say Alonso's car in Bahrain was damaged as a lighting pod fell from the ceiling hitting his car and they had to have a look at it at Woking after the race but I think Hamilton did a better job there.

MONACO 2007: Hamilton accused his team of cheating against him during the FIA post-race press conference. That provoked an unfair investigation on Alonso and McLaren's victory in the Principality. Despite it all, Ron Dennis backed Hamilton before the media while avoiding to support Alonso's fantastic job in the amazing McLaren's 1-2 in the Monegasque GP. The team took no action whatsoever against Hamilton. During the race, Hamilton stepped over the continuous line when exiting the pit lane and he got away with it.

INDIANAPOLIS 2007: Pit stop strategies and team orders (rev. limit) were in favor of Hamilton and detrimental to Alonso. Alonso got p**sed off when the team ordered him to hold position and drive conservatively but he obeyed them. Of course, The FIA didn't investigate Hamilton's victory this time and Ron Dennis was delighted while he looked like attending a funeral in Monaco.

FRANCE 2007: Alonso faced problems with his gearbox cover during Q3 ending up on the tenth position of the starting grid. De la Rosa explained during the race that the defective part had been perfectly identified and removed.

GERMANY 2007: Many drivers slipped off the track when it was raining heavily. Despite what the rules say on that matter, a crane put Hamilton, and only him, back on the track under a high risk of collision with other drivers. Although the rules clearly specify that a driver must turn off his engine and get out of the car safely Hamilton was not penalised.

HUNGARY 2007: Despite the agreement with the whole team, Hamilton did not let Alonso take advantage of the extra lap he was entitled to on that Q3. After a controversial pit stop where they put worn tyres on Alonso's car, the Spanish managed to get the pole. Hamilton denounced his team and teammate before the Stewards and it cost McLaren the loss of points in the constructors' championship. Alonso got 5 grid penalty and, of course, nobody in the team took actions against that treason. Hamilton got away with it again.

ITALY 2007: Hamilton placed his car in the start box pointing to Alonso's. It was in clear breach of what the rules say about the start of a Grand Prix. There was no penalty for him nonetheless.

JAPAN 2007: Both Alonso and Hamilton had a racing incident with Vettel and Kubica respectively, but only the Pole was unfairly penalized despite the poor track conditions. The Spanish suffered serious damage on the back of his car and crashed into a wall a few laps later. Under the Safety Car, Hamilton skipped the rules completely causing an accident between two other cars. He got no penalty and the Stewards justified their decission because of the poor track conditions.

CHINA 2007: Alonso faced strange problems in Q3 after a flawless Q1 and Q2. The Spanish had been faster than his teammate in the three practice sessions but both tyre pressure and tyre warmers were not adjusted properly for the decisive round Q3. After the race, Ron Dennis admitted publicly that they were not racing against Raikkonen but against Alonso. The tyre warmers were sent to Woking for inspection.

Qualifying:

LH: 1:35.798 1:35.898 1:35.908

FA: 1:35.809 1:35.845 1:36.576

Df: Q1 0.011 Q2 0.053 Q3 0.668

From Monaco to Hungaroring Alonso did as much as he could to remain loyal to McLaren, it was Hamilton who denounce the team twice and he was always backed up by Ron Dennis. In the end Alonso didn't have any reason to trust his own team and he took revenge in Brazil 2007.

Sorry for the annoyances to the rest of the forum members.

In my opinion the only thing alonso has is basenes, and he only demostrated being a quite dirty and envious pilot, while Hamilton is a genious and a very correct guy.

It's not very smart to compare a genious with latin swindler that only rely on his dirty play and his luck (which unfortunately demonstrates to be big one).

Relax. Hamilton is a great racing driver. You're not doing him any good talking so bad about his pal Alonso.

Welcome to the forums!

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Hammy reminds me of "the little girl, with the little curl".

When he's good -he's very, very good - and when he's bad - he's horrid!

When Alonso (or kimi, or webber, or most others) have a bad day they still finish in the points, when Hammy has a bad day he usually finishes in the tyre wall.

Even though Maldonado managed to turn right in a left-hander, Hammy shouldn't have been tangling with anyone when his tyres were obviously dying.

Better to drop a couple of points, rather than all - I honestly think this is a great year for him to challenge for the WDC, but most podiums rather than most wins may do it.

Remember, apart from this race, this year Lewis has finished every other race and in the points.

Well, I think that insulting you don't demonstrate to be quite well-bred ang intelligent and yes, I'm not an Englishman and my english is far from beeing good, but this is not an English grammar forum, but a Formula 1 dedicated one, if you've got something to say to disprove my thesis submit it, if the only thing you can offer is your hostility and bad manners then your utility and motoring knowledge is equal to 0 (I guess your intelligency level also) and you can keep them to yourself.

Maybe it's not the truth that Hamilton receives an unfair treat, and what happend yesterday in your opinion is something quite normal - the ¨job¨ McLaren's crew did for Hamilton, the more than 10 seconds lost, the wasted 2 posicion (he entered in the boxes 2 and returned to the race 8), your favourite Alonso that entered in boxes 7 and went out 3, I guess in your opinion this is Alonso's ¨great¨ driving, and the brightness of his talent...I think it's pointless to ask you about the ¨driving accident¨ that Hamilton suffered in the final laps caused by other ¨great¨ talent - Maldonado, and how many ¨driving accidents¨ has suffered Hamilton only in the last two years and where he could be without such ¨accidents¨ (that always happen to him).

And what to say about Alonso's finishing of yesterday's race, without taking his car in the boxes, for almost the same thing Hamilton was punished some weeks ago, but I think all these things doesn't matter for you, the important thing for you is Alonso wins (by all means) and my english. What a pity...

You arrived here and in your first post refer to arguably one of the finest drivers on the grid as a 'Latin Swindler'. This means you are either a racist, stupid, a child or all three. Don't expect to hget away with that. If I suggest that was stupid and it upsets you, that's too bad. Go find a forum that accepts that sort of thing. There are many people who post here who are not great with English and/or grammar. Frankly I don't care because they write with passion, respect, wit and knowledge. But I'll give you a chance.

I don't believe Hamilton receives unfair treatment. I believe he has had unlucky treatment. Lewis is one of may favourite drivers. For different reasons, Fernando is too.

Lewis beating Fernando in 2007 has become incidental, in my view. That's because I believe Fernando has improved since then. His second term at Renault built his character much more than Lewis's equivalent years at McLaren. Not only that, I think Fernando has always displayed a higher level of maturity and intelligence in and out of the car. Call it being that bit older, but there is a difference and it is making a difference to their respective results right now. He is more rounded, looks at the bigger picture, carries more authority in his aura, lives his personal life in private and acts and talks like a man, not a boy.

And lastly, I have no idea if Fernando was favoured by the FIA yesterday, no idea at all. But I'm not going to cry 'conspiracy' just yet. With Lewis's incident, he had 1.3 litres of fuel in the car on his cool down lap when the team told him to switch off the engine. The rules say that a car must have 0.5 litres for a sample, plus enough to get the car back to the pits, which was around 2.5 litres on that particular track. Maybe the FIA got swept up in the moment and forgot that Fernando stopped out on the track, but I don't believe so.

You decided immediately that I favour a 'win at all costs' type of behaviour and have a bias for Fernando. I have no idea where that came from. If you wise up and stick around you will find more objective and unbiased F1 fans on this forum than on any other F1 website.

Don't be surprised if some blast you in an attempt to preserve that.

Welcome.

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Nice to meet you Jean-Pierresmile.png

Same here Bradspeedman.thumb.gif

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Cut the racist undertones and homophobia.

Thanks.

Ya, do that please. Because a forum where such language is accepted will loose many members, I for one.

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Yesterday Hami shown he is not up to Nando yet...

Or, I thought, if at all possible, that Alonso is still improving! Masterful, really.

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I think you're partial, if you intent to tell me that Hamilton didn't have more points during all the 2007 I will not agree with you because it's not true - Hamilton had more points than Alonso during all the season and he finished with more points.

If you try to reject that Alonso betrayed his team and this leaded to McLaren being exluded from constructor's championship and obliged to pay a big penalty (100 000 000 eur.) which consisted a signifficant part of Mclaren's next year budget, it would demonstrate you're not fair.

The season in 2007 was decided in the final race (in Brazil), on the start Hamilton had more points than every other pilot and he started from 2 posicion while Alonso started from 4 (he almost everytime is quite backwards from Hamilton, why if he is so faster...), then at the start he pushed Hamilton's car and thus managed to disactivate his gearbox for a short period of time, if this crash (totally due to Alonso's ¨fellowship¨) hasn't succeeded I'm sure that Hamilton would have gained his first championship - he had more points, more poles, more...I think that Alonso seeing that he won't become champion decided to not permit Hamilton become neither, this behaviour is not typical for a real champion, in my opinion.

Edited by turbokick

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