Massa

2013 Grid

219 posts in this topic

Well, Mercedes was always the only team where it would make any kind of sense (yet still a huge gamble in terms of results) and might have a vacancy next year. It wouldn't be surprising given the decline in the Lewis/Mclaren relationship. Nevertheless, could just be a negotiating ploy and I'm sure Eddie Jordan is somewhat prone to leaps of the imagination.

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Well, Mercedes was always the only team where it would make any kind of sense (yet still a huge gamble in terms of results) and might have a vacancy next year. It wouldn't be surprising given the decline in the Lewis/Mclaren relationship. Nevertheless, could just be a negotiating ploy and I'm sure Eddie Jordan is somewhat prone to leaps of the imagination.

Yup, sounds like the same mental excercise most of us did in the past, only with EJ's signature and on the BBC site. I have read that same version, with better fundamentation from some posters in here.

That said, why Schumi and not Rosberg? I bet Rosberg feels as frustrated as Schumi, is obviously not Ross Brawn's beloved son, still has some decent years ahead, must feel like a proven winner after China and at the same time must feel that he is wasting his continuously dwindling perspectives as "the next big promise of a driver" as years pass and Merc goes everywhere but forward.

Nico could easily find another seat and open a position for Lewis.

Schumi is more a marketing ploy by now than the 7 times WDC we knew at Ferrari/Benetton. I'd rather keep a mediocre but highly marketeable Schumi than a mediocre Nico. If Nico has any real potential, it will not show up at Merc, apparently, despite his win.

As for Lewis, this sounds like Alonso's 2008 move, if it ever happens. He is looking not for next year's championship car buut for a friendlier enviroment. Alonso's sabbaticall years at Renault certainly did him good. Perhaps that is what Lewis needs to mature and stop doing stupid things for once. Lewis can certainly learn lots from Schumi.

Just my 2 cents which are 1/2 cent worth.

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All very true. Although Bernie's comments on Schumi did seem quite like they'd let the cat out of the bag laugh.png You never know with Bernie though..

I couldn't help but laugh at this, courtesy of Sniff Petrol:

PicNews120905.jpg

Edited by Rainmaster

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It'll personally be very painful for me to see Hamilton replace Schumacher next year if that is indeed what happens. On the flip side though, such is the state Mercedes are in right now, at least there's very little chance of Hamilton winning anything other than an egg and spoon race. :P

Still can't see him leaving McLaren though. He'd be stupid to leave McLaren to go to Mercedes.

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Following Andres's reasoning, the only logical explanation would be that when you put in the balance Mclaren (good car but tense environment) versus Mercedes (???? car and probable welcoming environment) Lewis feels like he could do better. After all, even if 90% car and 10% driver, a driver that's in off form is decisive to the final result in a race. And continuing the off form for a while can be dangerous for said driver.

My point is, Lewis could impress much more in a Mercedes than at McLaren. Even if by the simple rule of "worse car, way more impressive". And that, in the end, could warrant him a much better deal in a championship winning team. And what the hell, the guy has years ahead of him. A little change won't kill him!

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Still can't see him leaving McLaren though. He'd be stupid to leave McLaren to go to Mercedes.

It would seem an odd decision, I agree, but decisions like this have been done before. Occasionally the driver has got lucky and dropped into a very good car.

Following Andres's reasoning, the only logical explanation would be that when you put in the balance Mclaren (good car but tense environment) versus Mercedes (???? car and probable welcoming environment) Lewis feels like he could do better. After all, even if 90% car and 10% driver, a driver that's in off form is decisive to the final result in a race. And continuing the off form for a while can be dangerous for said driver.

My point is, Lewis could impress much more in a Mercedes than at McLaren. Even if by the simple rule of "worse car, way more impressive". And that, in the end, could warrant him a much better deal in a championship winning team. And what the hell, the guy has years ahead of him. A little change won't kill him!

Yep, I imagine a bit of guidance from Ross Brawn wouldn't hurt at all, to be honest.

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Schumacher will replace Massa. Just wait.

I'm not sure a 7 times WDC wants to be remembered as "that old fart they brought to replace Massa"

Actually, I am not sure that "Massa's replacement" would sound like much of a honor to anybody.

Except Rubinho who has been seen at the sides of some tracks with a board saying "I'll drive 4 food"

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Schumacher will replace Massa. Just wait.

I'd actually just love that to happen. I grew up watching Schumacher dominate in those red Ferraris, and getting up to watch the 2000 Japanese GP live with my dad (at what felt at such a young age like 3am in the morning) to see him beat Hakkinen and take his first title with Ferrari is something I'll forever remember.

I was so excited when it was announced in '09 that he would be Massa's stand in. Then we got Badoer...

Biased section below. You have been warned. In fact, I'll put it in a spoiler. You've been extra warned.

My personal opinion is that Ferrari screwed up in 2006. They wouldn't wait for Schumacher's decision on whether he wanted to continue or not, signed Raikkonen anyway, and that kinda forced his hand. He didn't want to kick Massa out (how better it would be to know then what we do now tongue.png), so retired, and despite what he said at the time, evidently wasn't ready to do so or he'd never have come back in the first place.

I have no doubt that had he continued in '07, he'd have easily won the championship, such was the number of mistakes Hamilton, Alonso, and to a lesser extent, Raikkonen all made that year. He'd have won it by more than just one point! tongue.png

There. Had to write that. Sorry.

Edited by JHS18

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The 2013 silly season is proving to be one of hte best for years - we have two or possibly three seats avalaible at top four teams, here is how i see it:

Red Bull - Sebastien Vettel and Mark Webber confirmed

McLaren - Jenson Button confirmed, Lewis Hamilton possible unless he decides to move with Di Resta or Rosberg in line to replace him if he does

Ferrari - Fernando Alonso confirmed, Felipe Massa looking as if he is on the way out, Sergio Perez is the only option for me, but they say he needs more experience - after Malaysia and especially today they must reconsider. Other options; Nico Hulkenberg, Nico Rosberg, Paul Di Resta

Mercedes - Nico Rosberg confirmed, Michael Schumacher possible unless he decides to retire. I dont think he will but if he does Paul Di Resta will be number one choice to replace him (assuming Hamilton stays at McLaren), failing that Nico Hulkenberg, or Timo Glock

Lotus - Kimi Raikkonen confirmed, Romain Grosjean likley to retain the second seat, but Heikki Koverlainen, Timo Glock and Jerome D'Amborisio are contenders - or possible outside shout for Kevin Korjus?

Force India - Paul Di Resta and Nico Hulkenberg confirmed, unless they are poached by a bigger team, Juiles Bianchi to step up if one of them moves upwards.

Sauber - nothing confirmed, will proberally keep the Sergio Perez and Kamui Kobayasi unless Perez moves to Ferrari, Jaime Alguersuari or Charles Pic in line to replace him

Toro Rosso - nothing confirmed, but Jean-Eric Vergne and Daniel Ricciardo will be kept on, the next generation of Red Bull Juniors, Danill Kyvat and Carlos Sainz Junior are nowhere near ready yet.

Williams - For as long as Maldonardo brings money Williams will employ him, Bruno Senna has improved this season but both are under massive pressure from Valterri Bottas.

Caterham - Would like to keep Heikki Koverlainen but he is wanting to move to the front of the grid, Vitaly Petrov is likley to stay - if one does move on Giedo Van Der Garde for their GP2 team or Alexander Rossi from their World Series team should get the drive.

Marussia - Timo Glock is under contract but could be poached away by a bigger team, Charles Pic should be kept on if he is also not taken by a bigger team, possible replacement driver Max Chilton from the Marussia sponsored Carlin GP2 team

HRT - Pedro De La Rosa is under contact, he will be joined by Dani Clos, Daniel Juncadella or Ma Qua Hua

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Pretty accurate breakdown there.

I think Caterham's succession plan favors van der Garde. Rossi was supposed to get a lot of Fridays this year, but after his first one, the team never gave him another (rumored he'll be back for the penultimate round in Elroy). I have a feeling they didn't get much of use from him that day. Pair it with a hugely disappointing season in Formula Renault, and I think he's out, unless there's massive pressure from the U.S.-based sponsors to bring him up.

Which I wouldn't expect, because my understanding is that most of Caterham's sponsors are Tune Group partners through business ventures, or sold at a huge discount to cherry pick high-profile brands in hopes of attracting even more partners because of those associations. So I don't think there's a lot of influence there.

Having said that, they'll probably confirm him for a race seat tomorrow. :P

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I can't help but feel underwhelmed by the suggestion of Alguersuari/Pic replacing Kobayashi. But still, he badly needs a podium result, or more, during the remaining part of the season if he's to be there enxt year.

Even more underwhelmed by Ma Qing Hua...just why? What is the point? HRT have done an amazing job to find somebody even LESS qualified than Narain Karthikeyan, and that takes some doing. When there's so many good drivers waiting for a chance to get into F1, and Ma Qing Hua takes it, that'll just be ridiculous. HRT might as well not even bother turning up to races any more in that case, because it is pretty obvious they wouldn't care about performance, or improving.

But watch nothing change and see how disappointed we all end up. :P

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The thing that surprises me most with Ma Qing Hua is how did he get a super licence to be allowed to take part? He has done nothing in his career to suggest that he deserves one or a capable of racing in F1. I remember the battle Raikkonen had to get one because he had only started 13 single seat races - but even he was more qualified

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The thing that surprises me most with Ma Qing Hua is how did he get a super licence to be allowed to take part? He has done nothing in his career to suggest that he deserves one or a capable of racing in F1. I remember the battle Raikkonen had to get one because he had only started 13 single seat races - but even he was more qualified

Alonso won a couple of Formula Nissan Series and next year ended up 4th in F3000. Those were his biggest diplomas (unless you count the kart days but there are many guys with similar achievments).

Nelsinho had amuch more impressive career pre-F1. Grosjean and Maldonado as well.

You people have too much faith in the so called "feeder series". I'd rather trust Briatore's or Stoddard's intuition any day over a hundred cups won in lower formulae.

;)

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Apparently winning the Chinese Touring Car Championship (yes, such a thing really does exist) is now the ticket to a super license.

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Well, it's true that lower tier championship results are not conclusive and sometimes not even indicative of F1 performance. But if you don't have that then you must be spotted by someone in the know, like Briatore, who has a great eye for drivers. Ma Qing Hua's problem is that he has neither of those things!

To be fair, I've never seen him race, and whoever goes into that car is always going to be touring around at the back of the grid, anyway. In a way I'd rather they hire "rubbish" drivers (still probably a decent driver relatively speaking) than hire an amazing driver who doesn't get noticed and it ruins his career.

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You people have too much faith in the so called "feeder series". I'd rather trust Briatore's or Stoddard's intuition any day over a hundred cups won in lower formulae.

;)

It's a pity because with today's F1 probably Alonso, Raikkonen, Kubica and others wouldn't have gone through the "feeder categories" to F1.

Alonso was Renault test driver in 2002 after a rookie year in 2001 at Minardi. Test driver? What's that for? woould ask the younger fans.

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To be fair, I've never seen him race, and whoever goes into that car is always going to be touring around at the back of the grid, anyway. In a way I'd rather they hire "rubbish" drivers (still probably a decent driver relatively speaking) than hire an amazing driver who doesn't get noticed and it ruins his career.

Alonso and Webber started at Minardi. Raikkonen and Massa started at Sauber. Vettel started his proper career at Toro Rosso. Not what you'd think as front running teams. Never did their careers any damage. :P

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I don't think Minardi, Sauber and Toro Rosso then were as bad as HRT now, though. All were not "top tier" teams but the former three were long established organisations who didn't always finish at the back of the grid, like HRT. I am not criticising HRT, just pointing to facts here. Toro Rosso certainly were nothing like starting in a HRT, they were effectively a Red Bull B team and when Vettel was there the car was almost identical to the Red Bull chassis but had a better engine, iirc. By the time Vettel started outperforming the car it was already a strong midfield car (stronger than the Red Bull, I think). I don't know that much about Sauber and Minardi in the days those drivers were there (before I watched F1) but I suspect they weren't always back of the grid guaranteed finishing position teams. Not diminishing the achievements of Raikkonen et al but I am not sure you would notice such strong drivers in a HRT. I think maybe the team would realise what they had and maybe it would spread through the paddock, but I'm not sure the opportunity to outperform a HRT is actually there in terms of results (esp. since now the grid is closer in the front to lower middle positions, driving standards are probably higher, and retirements are fewer).

What does everyone else think?

Edited by Rainmaster

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What does everyone else think?

I agree but Minardi in 2001 wasn't much better than HRT today. A lot of mechanical failures more than 50% I think but as you say all teams have very few problems these days.

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Those teams have history within the sport. With history comes a certain level of rose-tinted pedigree.

Hindsight allows us to forget that in the early 2000's Minardi used to be slow and at around 70% race distance celebrate its achievement by catching fire. HRT by virtue of reliability is only consistently slow.

Sauber were a quite well funded Ferrari B team, and used to regularly finish in the points and end up between 4th to 6th in the championship.

Toro Rosso were a pantomime prancing horse with a chassis that gives it wings, so yeah.. It is a Pegasus -and bound to share the fortunes of the previous year's Red Bull (yet have the strength of Modena's best in the engine department)

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So di Montezemolo has essentially ruled out Perez for next year, saying he's not ready for a Ferrari drive. He's also reconfirmed that he wants to sign Vettel.

Why do I get the impression that nothing is going to change? I bet they'll keep Massa for an extra year before signing Vettel in '14.

Maybe it is for the best though. I can't imagine anyone, not least Perez, would agree to a one year contract knowing they'd be replaced the following year.

Now my dream situation, not like it will ever happen, is that Schumacher will move from Mercedes to Ferrari. Have one last year at his old team, retire, and then move over for Vettel.

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Perez said that he is ready for a top team drive, clearly a reply to Montezemolo. Point is, he's certainly much more ready than Massa has been this season and last, though that's not saying much.

Anyway, there is some movement going on in the driver market, Jaime Alguersuari tweeted that he'd signed to drive somewhere next year and we'd find out soon. I'm guessing that's in F1.

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I typed out a post and then a thing happened and now it's gone. I don't really remember what I was talking about, just like I don't really remember that Dr. Alguersuari, Buemi, or Sutil were ever F1 drivers, but I was basically saying I think it'd make the most sense if he signed with Sauber.

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Massa might be back after all...

http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-report-ferrari-set-to-announce-felipe-massa-for-2013/

I love Alonso's comments. He can use team as a first-person noun for himself to defend Massa, knowing well that he is their core. :P

(And don't get me wrong, I completely, 100% believe Massa should always have to move over for Alonso when ahead of him and when possible without costing the team total points in the WCC).

I still think Massa has to be taking a paycut to stay, though. Maybe some sort of deal where he gets less pay, but is now guaranteed work with Ferrari after his F1 career ends or something like that.

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