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The 2012 British Grand Prix

239 posts in this topic

Fairly exciting race, I guess.

Nice that Webber took out 7 points from Alonso. Massa should have got a podium.

Both Nico & Schumi lost 4 places. Mercedes sucks.

Another nail in this season's coffin for Button. McLaren seem to have lost the plot.

Lotus - if they get their quali right, they could very well win both the championships.

And someone please shoot Maldonado.

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That 1st pit-stop so early will cost them dearly eventually. I told ya!

you must admit that webber was much faster today, pirellis worked well on ferrari ( vettel wasn't much faster than alonso)

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Loved the 70's style interview at the podium by Jackie Stewart.

Team Poochie is so close yet so far! Mercedes is too inconsistent. McLaren is lost. Definitely setup problems are the worse thing right now.

Webber won, but oddly this was not an RBR win in the sense of an overwhelming performance from the car. Barely enough to beat a Ferrari. As disappointing that it seems from an Alonso fan POV, it was good for the race, nonetheless!

So, quite silently, Webber is becoming the real force to be reconned along with Alonso at this stage! Sweet!

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exciting? Maybe the first few laps. Later it was very sleepy :-(

ALO lost to WEB due to tyres and nothing else happened

Ferrari would win in normal circumstances!

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you must admit that webber was much faster today, pirellis worked well on ferrari ( vettel wasn't much faster than alonso)

It was a great race by Webber and he'd be my DoD no doubt but Ferrari/Alonso should know by now that you don't start on the harder compound if you're going to pit with others on the softer.

The 1st pit stop should have been delayed a few laps. Alonso was faster when they decided to stop. He then rejoin behind Hamilton so it could have been a big big fckup like Abu Dhabi 2010. Dumb strategy by Alonso/ Ferrari. That's all.

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exciting? Maybe the first few laps. Later it was very sleepy :-(

ALO lost to WEB due to tyres and nothing else happened

Ferrari would win in normal circumstances!

Hi and welcome aboard!

Tires made the difference, but the battle between WEB and ALO (one with tires a second worth faster than the other on a track that offered many chances to overtake) displays that tires alone are not enough. They put Webber right alongside Alonso, yet they had to battle hard for it. It was a good battle, and it was a good battle with Lewis (who was, like Alonso, merely putting a testimonial defense more or less) at the beginning. Behind them, many drivers with lots to prove fighting hard as well. Maldonado stands out as the most clumsy (although this one was a race incident more clearly, he has been in too many of them not to be somehow punished to be more careful in the future)

Strategies were very interesting to observe. Ferrari's one was a great one. The problem was that it was just not enough and that the other teams (most notably RBR) promptly understood and reacted to it.

A fully deserved win for Mark, who is doing everything right (have you noticed he does not fail anymore at starts?). A disappointing race for Schumi who was obviously pushing very hard but the car did not respond. Ditto for Lewis and Button.

Team Poochie (that's Lotus, for you) seems just out of depth up there. They have the drivers, the car and the pitstops, yet they somehow are not able to put all together to produce a winning result. They need to realize that the level of competition is very high in the top spots so you cannot give the slightest advantage to your rivals.

In a final note, Alonso's advantage at the beginning (and the risk of a processional race at some point) highlights the fact that the guy that starts in front has a huge advantage. Had he won, none of us would have been as impressed as with Valencia. Clean air, no crashes with other guys in battles, no need to lock your tires...life is easier at the front!

EDIT: my personal DoD is Grosjean. :) Oh, and Massa was no slouch for a change!

Edited by Quiet One

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Loved the 70's style interview at the podium by Jackie Stewart.

The sound was from the 70's too or was just the Spanish broadcast?

I didn't realise Grosjean finished that high. DoD for him too. :)

Lotus deserves a win.

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Nice to see my man Webber putting in some strong drives!

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hhheeeyyy hey!!

:lol: Yeah, I felt I was robbing from you! Sorry!

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Oh, and BTW, anybody noticed that the-powers-that-be only worked in the final minutes of Q2? They did not grant Alonso a win in a race he led for 50 laps? What kind of conspiracy is that?

:P

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Oh, and BTW, anybody noticed that the-powers-that-be only worked in the final minutes of Q2? They did not grant Alonso a win in a race he led for 50  laps? What kind of conspiracy is that?

:P

Blame Massa. He was told to crash on lap 48 to get the SC deployed.

:(

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Blame Massa. He was told to crash on lap 48 to get the SC deployed.

sad.png

That's the fundamental flaw. The guy does not know how to count to 48. By the time he could do the maths the race was over and he was halfway home.

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:lol:

Oh, I saw many comments about Murray on a few forums. He said Alonso was the best driver on the grid? Where he said that? Not that I think those comments from a tennis player are any important. tongue.png

Seriously, I expect they have their money on Federer FTW at Wimbledon. Unless it was Murray Walker playing, it is Federer's and he might win the Olimpics too. tongue.png

harhar.gif

Off topic: hey, don't get me wrong, I really can't stand (Andy :P) Murray! Go Federer!

Hi and welcome aboard!

Tires made the difference, but the battle between WEB and ALO (one with tires a second worth faster than the other on a track that offered many chances to overtake) displays that tires alone are not enough. They put Webber right alongside Alonso, yet they had to battle hard for it. It was a good battle, and it was a good battle with Lewis (who was, like Alonso, merely putting a testimonial defense more or less) at the beginning. Behind them, many drivers with lots to prove fighting hard as well. Maldonado stands out as the most clumsy (although this one was a race incident more clearly, he has been in too many of them not to be somehow punished to be more careful in the future)

Strategies were very interesting to observe. Ferrari's one was a great one. The problem was that it was just not enough and that the other teams (most notably RBR) promptly understood and reacted to it.

A fully deserved win for Mark, who is doing everything right (have you noticed he does not fail anymore at starts?). A disappointing race for Schumi who was obviously pushing very hard but the car did not respond. Ditto for Lewis and Button.

Team Poochie (that's Lotus, for you) seems just out of depth up there. They have the drivers, the car and the pitstops, yet they somehow are not able to put all together to produce a winning result. They need to realize that the level of competition is very high in the top spots so you cannot give the slightest advantage to your rivals.

In a final note, Alonso's advantage at the beginning (and the risk of a processional race at some point) highlights the fact that the guy that starts in front has a huge advantage. Had he won, none of us would have been as impressed as with Valencia. Clean air, no crashes with other guys in battles, no need to lock your tires...life is easier at the front!

EDIT: my personal DoD is Grosjean. smile.png Oh, and Massa was no slouch for a change!

Pretty much covers it.

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Ok,...I smell a British conspiracy here...why do you keep talking about Murray without making it clear you are talking about Andy???? I

Doh, well, you see Murray did talk about Murray, whilst sucking on a Murray. He enjoyed the race and went home in a hurry to have a Murray.... no not that sort of Murray, I meant a Ruby Murray... biggrin.png

Edited by Grabthaw the Hammerslayer

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Off topic: hey, don't get me wrong, I really can't stand (Andy tongue.png) Murray! Go Federer!

Andy Murray is a good tennis player, but in the words of Tim Henman, he is a "miserable git" :D

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I told you guys if Webber got one more win, he'd be the title favorite. Just you wait. ;)

And what do you know, he erased five seconds (but it wasn't worth watching, says FOM, who show us Senna doing nothing in Hülkenberg's dirty air) and got him...assisted by DRS, for sure, but still, he was on the high line into the corner and ran a little wide and all that. DRS doesn't make up five seconds (tires might, though :P).

Good battle between Alonso and Hamilton even if it wasn't for much. Glad they fought anyway. It would have been easy to just wait for Hamilton to pit. I respect that a lot.

My guy almost got a podium...let's keep this up...good day for him.

Senna and Hülkenberg, when it finally turned into something, was fun. Picking up more points where Maldonado seemingly can't. Maldonado's getting a reputation, and when you get a reputation, you start getting big-time penalties for incidents that don't always warrant them. I don't think today's was the worst; I'd call it racing, personally, but they had to make a statement to Pastor because he's in one of these every weekend.

It was a good race. It took a little bit of patience; all real racing does. Worth it in the end, though I flipped when they went to commercial break with 8 to go (but since it wasn't live, they just stopped the footage and came back where we left off, which was nice of them). Another botched strategy by Ferrari to keep it interesting. Great work from Webber and all that. The team has to back him now. He has a lot of distance on his teammate, who I am very bitter toward for jumping Massa in the pits and denying him an even better result. :P

The Ferrari's a good car. No one wants to say it. We want to live out a myth where Alonso can defy physics and make a car go faster than it is capable of going, which no one in the entire world can actually do. Alonso is an incredible driver, don't take it as a statement that he isn't and that he hasn't had some brilliant performances early on. But that car's just fine now. It ain't what they had in Melbourne. Ferrari are for real and Alonso's one of the best. But Webber's there. It's getting fun in the points standings...

...which I barely even notice anymore because there's so much going on in the actual event.

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I forgot to mention Grosjean, too. Recovered from a tough weekend. He ended up with the perfect strategy, as early incidents can yield. It's known here as a Bobby Gerhart strategy...Gerhart used to pit on lap one or two of stock car races at Daytona and never pit again, winning every single time. People eventually figured that out and now they all do it. Obviously, it wasn't planned in this case, but only having to do a few laps on the options made a huge difference for the guy. He's been the biggest surprise this year. I was definitely wrong about his ability, which I didn't think existed at all.

Also...Massa and Schumacher and Vettel and all that early. That was fun. So much was fun. Hell, just the shots of the cars going down the straight into the corner is fun. They turn so quickly. These guys are good. These cars are cool. That race was close. This is good stuff. I pity the 310,000,000 Americans who weren't watching that with me. ;)

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The Ferrari's a good car. No one wants to say it. We want to live out a myth where Alonso can defy physics and make a car go faster than it is capable of going, which no one in the entire world can actually do. Alonso is an incredible driver, don't take it as a statement that he isn't and that he hasn't had some brilliant performances early on. But that car's just fine now. It ain't what they had in Melbourne. Ferrari are for real and Alonso's one of the best. But Webber's there. It's getting fun in the points standings...

Actually that's a myth...but not from Alonso lovers or Tifossi, quite the contrary. All pundits and most respectable public said was that the Ferrai was a dog of a car, and it certainly was, to the point that this season was almost written out by the Ferari management after the first race and were already considering to just start focusing on next years Ferrari from the beginning (talk about knee jerk reactions). The Ferrai kept being heavily upgraded from then on and slowly improved. But with no string of "normal" races nobody could asess how good each car is. The point is, at nowhere in these past races until Silverstone the car itself looked as competitive as the RBRs, the Maccas or the Lotuses. Nobody seriously gives the Ferrari as a car any level of confidence until right after a race where Alonso produced good results, and this was the only race where the car legitimately could hold the pace with no other factors altering the "normal" development of the race.

The fact that Alonso DID place the car in places it shouldn't have been is already stablished. You cannot rewrite the past and turn the Ferrari into an almighty machine to take that out.

Don't believe in me. Just go ahead and browse any British website with some credibility. Even the most pro British ones give Alonso as much credit and rated the Ferraris as more or less competitive (depends on each one) but they all concede that Alonso overdrove it and Massa underdrove it.

So no, no mythical construction there. It's like saying "there you go, Eric, you think Massa is better than Schumacher, Alonso, Fangio and Senna combined, et he only managed a meekly 4th place!" when you obviously do not belive such thing (you do not even believe Massa is anything but a likeable underdog, I know and probably not even as much, but bear with me in this one)

Unless...do you? :unsure:

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You misread me, which leads me to believe I wasn't being clear, so my apologies.

The Ferrari is a good car now. It wasn't earlier in the year. I'm not changing history at all; I guess I was too vague there, but I wasn't talking about past races.

I'm not taking any drives away from Alonso and didn't mean to if I carelessly did. I just mean that the results he was getting earlier in the season aren't miracles now as they may have been then; they're expected because the Ferrari is a consistent, top-end car. There's nothing wrong with the car now, even if it isn't the overall best.

Alonso's been the driver of the year so far and the car was a dog, no contest there. I just believe the car's been more than improved enough to meet Alonso's driving, and even Massa's benefitting. That doesn't take anything away from anyone; it's always a combination of driver and car and Alonso's delivering in every variation of the F2012. But I think this variation is right up there with the great cars...they're still great performances...but the car's more cooperative for getting great performances from than it was.

The rest is quibbling over exaggerations and phrasing (i.e. taking a car to places it doesn't belong. It's true, the Ferrari didn't belong where Alonso was putting it earlier this year, but it was physically capable of being there because "outdriving" a car is just getting more of the car's 100% potential than someone else is...some people look at it as the driver getting 110% of the car, I look at it as 110% being the actual 100% of the car and the driver getting 99...).

I just think the car's fine now and that's not an insult to the drivers or a way of diminishing the results he gets from now on. Wins are wins, seconds are seconds, etc. No effort to discredit Alonso. It's still great what he's done and doing.

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And I will concede, re-reading, that my wording was a bit...not sure what the word is...but yeah, I can see how I wrote that in a way that sounded sort of derogatory to Alonso or his fans, which wasn't my point.

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I get what Eric is saying: the Ferrari is now a strong car. But it definitely wasn't always the case and Alonso did put it in places it shouldn't have been, absolutely no doubt about it. Both things are true!

On Grosjean, he is definitely the comeback king this season, more than Kimi and more than Schumi. It's not that you were wrong about him Eric, he just improved a lot (seems much more comfortable in his life, he just got married, so he's more mature and his performances are better).

Why did Kobay get a $25, 000 fine and Maldonado only a $10, 000 one? Absolutely ridiculous. Kobay made an obvious mistake (driving into pit crew), I'm not sure why you even need a penalty for that at all? A driver needs no incentive not to drive into his team. In any case even if you think it does deserve a penalty, when you compare it to Maldonado it makes no sense whatsoever. Maldonado being a driver who has: 1) drove into Hamilton deliberately during qualifying (Spa); drove into Perez/Kobay (?) in a practice session at Monaco (almost certainly deliberately again); drove into Hamilton at Valencia (deliberately); and I think I forgot at least one incident. Now he hits Perez, which was nowhere near as bad as those incidents but again a very questionable piece of driving. This guy does not have a brain and needs dealing with properly ASAP!

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I'm glad you understood what I was saying because even I didn't. I should have said that Massa couldn't finish fourth in anything but a winning car. tongue.png

As for the fines, both guys have a reputation, and I guess the thinking is it's easier for contact with another driver in a race situation to be more of a gray area, where a lot of factors play a role, whereas hitting your pit crew is a lot harder to be the fault of anyone but yourself. I do agree that they're giving Maldonado a lot of strikes...and even if they aren't all his fault, he's not putting himself in good situations, and that's half of it.

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