The 2012 British Grand Prix

[Rainmaster 7]

Yep, it's funny that Massa's performances tell you more about how god that car is now than Alonso's.

Other thing worth a mention is that I don't think it's time for Red Bull to put their weight behind Webber (whatever that means in such a strange season). 16 points probably isn't enough to do that, given their past performance history, Vettel is still the favourite for the title over Webber (esp. considering two of Mark's best tracks have gone from the calendar now, those being Monaco and Silverstone).

[Quiet One 15]

And I will concede, re-reading, that my wording was a bit...not sure what the word is...but yeah, I can see how I wrote that in a way that sounded sort of derogatory to Alonso or his fans, which wasn't my point.

I wasn't responding directly to you. You echoed a fairly widespread comment that the Ferrari was being somehow deliberately underrated as to make the success of Alonso more resounding.

As George said, I know that most of us fundamentally agree. I was more responding to the widespread comments than to your point in particular. And yes, I already pointed it during the race. That Ferrai is not a dog anymore. If it were, I would have nominated Nando and not Grosjean for DoD after all

@George: aw come on! Kobayashi sent two guys to a hospital! If tappping another car with no consequences (a car and driver that have plenty of safety measures on them to diminish them after all) can be fined, then running over a dozen guys for 25,000 USD is not such a hefty fine! It was an accident but 100% driver's error there! I wish I could run over a dozen guys and get scot free for just USD 25,000. Just in case, I already have a list! (No, you are not in that list. Not worth the bump in my car )

As for Maldonado, the only one I can put the blame 100% on him is the first one with Lewis, but I never saw the Monaco one with Perez. And even that one with Lewis was the end of a previous skirmish initiated by Hamilton so not exactly a case of the only guy driving like a madman. This one? He was alongside Perez and it was again a case of this guy not knowing when to give up meeting another hard headed guy and him not knowing how to handle it. He of course lost the car and tapped Perez out of the race and ruined his.The problem is, it is again a racing incident, but like Lewis last year, once you start trying to excuse the guy for "racing incidents" it becomes clear that he should avoid getting into them. A fine and reprimand is ok, although these should have been delivered long ago (perhaps at Monaco if it was so blatant) so as to allow for more severe reprimands in the future.

He obviously needs to learn how to overtake and how to keep spatial awareness. The guys sucks "consistently" but is no serial killer. Unless he tries to do that to Alonso...

Seriosuly, I think the FIA was ok, but they should be sure the guy understands it or has his superlicense removed.

[Massa 0]

George...you're probably right...but I'd rather they back him because all the whining when they don't will p*** on my parade and I was enjoying the title fight as an impartial viewer this year, letting all past sins of every driver involved go and giving them a clean slate. No one's done anything too dumb yet...though some comments in Valencia weren't too endearing but I've said dumber here.

[AleHop 0]

Agree about Maldonado. Even if today's penalty was on the limit between a stupid move and a racing incident, he's like wearing an advice on his car: don't even get close to me or else... That type of drivers suck big time!!! I consider him more than a competent driver but he's asking for a race ban.

The F2012. It's a competitive car, yes. But Silverstone was supposed to suite Ferrari more than any other car in the world. Of course it has to mean something that both Alonso and Massa were fighting up there for the win/podium but at the end of the day they weren't able to achieve a pole2win on a track that suited them. I don't put all the blame on the car but it's not that good, is it?

Federer won. I'm happy. He's the kind of sportman everyone wants for his favourite sport. Together with Nadal, of course.

[Massa 0]

I think tire strategy cost Alonso the win, not the car, personally.

Massa was cost a podium by being unable to get around Schumacher early in the race, even with DRS. That kept Vettel close enough to jump him in the pits. Schumacher's defense was incredible in that, and Massa's overtaking isn't much of a skill, not near as much as his blocking.

Maldonado's a more consistent Massa...by more consistent, I mean his blips of being actually competent are far less frequent.

I still don't think his move today was his worst, but when you have a reputation, you're going to get no benefit of the doubt. Turns out Eddie Jordan agrees with me on which means I'm probably a bumbling idiot and saw it all wrong.

Steady (or steadier) Senna's eating into that points advantage, too. Having 25 points from a win and 29 total is not a good sign.

My biggest thing with the penalty is that I can never figure out when they decide something is a time penalty, when something is a grid penalty, when something is a monetary penalty, and when something is some combination. I gather that if you score points, they'll give you a time penalty so you lose points, but if you don't score points, they'll not even bother. I say it every week so I won't tell you how I feel about tailoring penalties to the offender rather than the offense.

It was a good race, though, I thought, and I'm definitely excited for what's to come. It's incredible that we aren't even halfway through the scheduled races...I only just realized it as I typed it, which is probably why I was eager to start talking title and backing number ones and all that...

[Rainmaster 7]

I wasn't responding directly to you. You echoed a fairly widespread comment that the Ferrari was being somehow deliberately underrated as to make the success of Alonso more resounding.

As George said, I know that most of us fundamentally agree. I was more responding to the widespread comments than to your point in particular. And yes, I already pointed it during the race. That Ferrai is not a dog anymore. If it were, I would have nominated Nando and not Grosjean for DoD after all

@George: aw come on! Kobayashi sent two guys to a hospital! If tappping another car with no consequences (a car and driver that have plenty of safety measures on them to diminish them after all) can be fined, then running over a dozen guys for 25,000 USD is not such a hefty fine! It was an accident but 100% driver's error there! I wish I could run over a dozen guys and get scot free for just USD 25,000. Just in case, I already have a list! (No, you are not in that list. Not worth the bump in my car )

As for Maldonado, the only one I can put the blame 100% on him is the first one with Lewis, but I never saw the Monaco one with Perez. And even that one with Lewis was the end of a previous skirmish initiated by Hamilton so not exactly a case of the only guy driving like a madman. This one? He was alongside Perez and it was again a case of this guy not knowing when to give up meeting another hard headed guy and him not knowing how to handle it. He of course lost the car and tapped Perez out of the race and ruined his.The problem is, it is again a racing incident, but like Lewis last year, once you start trying to excuse the guy for "racing incidents" it becomes clear that he should avoid getting into them. A fine and reprimand is ok, although these should have been delivered long ago (perhaps at Monaco if it was so blatant) so as to allow for more severe reprimands in the future.

He obviously needs to learn how to overtake and how to keep spatial awareness. The guys sucks "consistently" but is no serial killer. Unless he tries to do that to Alonso...

Seriosuly, I think the FIA was ok, but they should be sure the guy understands it or has his superlicense removed.

I see that argument, that Kobay caused more damage. But I reject it! I'll try to explain, I will struggle.

The difference for me is that Kobayashi's mistake is a simple, sort of "operational" error (I can't think of the right word). It's the same as if you brake too late into a corner or you hit a wall in the race, of your own accord.

Whereas all of Maldonado's incidents at best show a lack of respect for other drivers and at least once showed him using the car as an aggressive weapon. Maldonado's mistakes are not "operational" kind of mistakes, they are not driving errors, they are deliberate, and they are caused by his attitude.

The significance? Incidents caused by attitude problems are for one, much more frequent. That's why you see some drivers involved in so many incidents and others hardly ever involved. Secondly, attitudes are clearly affected by penalties whereas driving mistakes are not, or at least much less so. Notice that Maldonado has never admitted any kind of liability for any of his mistakes, driving into other people. None whatsoever. Penalising Kobay serves what purpose? Imagine how bad he already feels and imagine the likelihood of him ever doing it again, if he wasn't penalised. I could understand if the money went to the injured mechanics or the team, but instead just lines the FIA's pockets. But again, I have no major problem with fining for fining's sake (just to enforce the point of not driving into your team, as if it were needed), but when you compare it with Maldonado's incident/attitude problem, it doesn't make sense from that perspective at all.

George...you're probably right...but I'd rather they back him because all the whining when they don't will p*** on my parade and I was enjoying the title fight as an impartial viewer this year, letting all past sins of every driver involved go and giving them a clean slate. No one's done anything too dumb yet...though some comments in Valencia weren't too endearing but I've said dumber here.

I'm not going to argue with that

Agree about Maldonado. Even if today's penalty was on the limit between a stupid move and a racing incident, he's like wearing an advice on his car: don't even get close to me or else... That type of drivers suck big time!!! I consider him more than a competent driver but he's asking for a race ban.

The F2012. It's a competitive car, yes. But Silverstone was supposed to suite Ferrari more than any other car in the world. Of course it has to mean something that both Alonso and Massa were fighting up there for the win/podium but at the end of the day they weren't able to achieve a pole2win on a track that suited them. I don't put all the blame on the car but it's not that good, is it?

Federer won. I'm happy. He's the kind of sportman everyone wants for his favourite sport. Together with Nadal, of course.

Federer made my day. But I like Murray more now he lost

[Quiet One 15]

Oh, ok, I see. Maldonado's having an attitude problem is more likely to develop his mistakes onto a Modus Operandi than Koba, who probably won't repeat this.

I agree if that's what you meant. But the problem is that the offenses themselves (the actual ones) are very different in the actual results. Killing someone unintentionally is always punished more than slapping everybody you don't like. If you slap everybody you don't like youu will probably not get invited to many parties, but you have not endangered many lives neither.

Now, Maldonado is not merely slapping peoople, I know, he keeps getting into ussles with cars at 300+ km/h which is inherently dangerous, so probably calls for sterner measures, but I honestly don't know what else could be done as not one of the incidents was grave enough to warrant a race banning or such.

For the sake of fairness, the warnings system should be used along with more severe penalties each time. Something FIA is not good at, because it calls for consistency and fairness

[Rainmaster 7]

Indeed!

[voriax 0]

It is simple obvious that Maldonado does not know when to give up during battle for better position!

It's the reason we will see more and more accidents caused by this driver. He is driving dangerous and with to respect to other drivers - there is no other explanation for me :-)

Warnings with no penalty during race is a good idea.

[Quiet One 15]

It is simple obvious that Maldonado does not know when to give up during battle for better position!

It's the reason we will see more and more accidents caused by this driver. He is driving dangerous and with to respect to other drivers - there is no other explanation for me :-)

Warnings with no penalty during race is a good idea.

Yup. Unless he messes with Alonso, in which case a crucifixion will do

[JHS18 0]

Good race today - I enjoyed it. A late race pass for the lead always helps - great job by Webber and Red Bull to put him on the right strategy.

Championship battle shaping up nicely between Red Bull/Ferrari at this rate, but no doubt McLaren will be back soon as well.

Once again was impressed with Grosjean. Great job to get sixth after being at the back of the pack at one bit. One of these days he's going to win one...

Shame for Sauber too. They had a good run going before the Maldonado incident and the pit lane trouble. Good drives by Senna and Hulkenberg too.

Enjoyed the battling today. Unfortunately this was the last live race BBC shows till Spa I believe, but I'm still looking forward to Germany nonetheless.

[Argento Reloaded 1]

Guys I agree with you about Maldonado, but today incident was a mistake because he had not warm the tyres; he lost the car as lost it Koba at Valencia e.g.. For me it was a race incident. The problem with him is he took too seriously Frank´s words about he can be a WC! He is throwing all the good job he did last year and the first races of 2012.

[Argento Reloaded 1]

Regarding the final laps of the race it showed the influence of the Pirelli tyres nowadays: great for the show but difficult to setup the car for a such a different tyres! With bridgesotenes or michelin the fastest car with hard coumpound still was the fast with soft tyres. but today we saw a car faster than the others with hard tyres and suddenly was the 7th fastest with soft tyres. Italian logic?

[Massa 0]

Another day, another lack of anything warranting a mention for STR (with the exception of when Vergne does something dumb).

I fully supported and support the move to get rid of Buemi and Alguersuari. Why? Because it's not a normal team. A normal team, I'd keep those two, but a team that exists to try to develop talent for the big club, while Buemi and Alguersuari were steady, they didn't have much potential to ever be a lot more than they were, whereas on paper, Ricciardo and Vergne had limitless potential (and both had given reasons to believe they'd be good...though if you want my opinion, Esteban Guerrieri was better than Daniel Ricciardo).

My point is, STR, for the function it serves, it made more sense to say "well, Buemi and Alguersuari would be good number twos for Vettel, but we don't need that right now, so let's try to make our next champion."

But these two are taking us back to the days of Liuzzi and Speed, and I realize the team has had some issues with money and all. I've always figured STR was in it for the short-term because when it comes to driver development, Red Bull bails early and often, and cancels programs as a whole (like the American driver search...after they got Speed to F1, they decided there was nothing left to do here, even though the initial goal had been an American World Champion...but Red Bull never sincerely tried for that goal, having chosen Speed in the first place despite him not being anywhere close to the most impressive driver in their testing days...he was just "what they wanted" to make a story out of, developing some guy into a champion, rather than taking a guy who needed less development...but then they never developed Speed at all and just rushed him through and his lack of talent and poor attitude just made a real mess...here I go again, you're probably saying, and so am I ).

But I think that future will get even shorter-term. No one in the system is close to F1; Carlos Sainz, Jr. is in the F3 EuroSeries, Mitch Evans is in GP3...both would be a few years off. And if these guys don't pan out, what's left for Red Bull?

I guess it's not exactly a "2012 British Grand Prix" specific thought, but I can't imagine STR's got much left if these guys don't give us a result to restore faith in them.

[dribbler 6]

Morning guys. I'm back, star struck, hungover and blown away. That was up there with some of the best experiences of my life. Here's me being interviewed by SKY's (and previously BBC's) Ted Kravitz.

We were guests of Red Bull who entertained us in their private suite. Look who popped in for a chat......

I stood in the pitlane as the drivers climbed off the parade lorry. They walked straight in front of me. Quite obviously this is my favourite pic';

I love this one because it shows how much enthusiasm the Marshalls have. It fullfills their dreams too....

Jock Clear. Stern faced as ever.

"Can I have a picture please, Nigel?"

"Sure"

More to follow........

[dribbler 6]

Have a feeling that the big name today will be Schumi! Shhhhh.

Even as an Alonso fan/Schumi hater that would be so great for Steve out there!

Thanks Andres. Indeed, it would have been great. Unfortunately he seemed to be on a mission to resurrect the Trulli train.

Will SOMEONE in Mercedes PLEASE nail the reason why they go nowhere in the race. Michael was supposed to have a dry set up aswell.

Hats off to Mark. The grandstands errupted when he got past Fernando. I like to think my motivational chat in the RB suite on Saturday afternoon helped him.

Must dash, Ross is on the phone asking me to 'pop in' at Brackley......

[Insider 0]

Well, Steve it's a different world down there, right? You looked the part though.

Power to Mark. He is a very good driver and if he'd always had the same kit and rating as SV, he'd have been a WDC long ago. Hopefully, it is his year. Lewis still has a shout - if he can borrow a C31!!!

My God! Macca are heading for the abyss. People poo-poo me when I go on about Whitmarsh getting the elbow but he is not 'leading' this team. Lewis is now running off at the mouth and quite rightly in my book. He has options. JB is a little more reserved but there has been a shadow over him of late and he is probably better off where he is. If Lewis goes, which I am certain he will then Jenson has the team to himself as they claw their way back over the next season or two. The way things are shaking out, LH probably has more choices now than he did a few weeks ago. He may go and join Nando again or replace Schumi. If he has to take a pay cut, he could join Sauber or Williams and bring much needed sponsorship to those two teams, specifically, Coca-Cola who have a history with Hambone's management. He definitely wants out.

My driver of the day was Grosjean. He is probably the quickest pedlar out there right now and is fearless. Maldonado is a brainless dolt. I don't care if he is quick and sponsored up to eyeballs - he is a major liability and he will cause a catastrophe if he isn't ousted from the sport now. If Frank didn't need him to pay the wages I am sure he would have been back in Caracas weeks ago.

[dribbler 6]

I'm beginning to agree with the common held theory that petualnt Venezualan pricks wear braces to stop being punched in the teeth.

Which is why if I were a driver right now, I would carry boxing gloves with me in the c0ckpit.

[AleHop 0]

Thank you Steve. A few good pictures, I like 2nd and 3rd very much. You were lucky b####, you had a bit of everything with the weather and some good moments on a sunny Sunday.

I'm sad reading the crowd cheered when Webber got past Alonso, surely they cheered when Alonso got past Hamilton?

If Hamilton goes to some other team then Webber might go to McLaren. All the 2013 grid debate depends on 2 names, Hamilton and Schumacher.

[dribbler 6]

Thank you Steve. A few good pictures, I like 2nd and 3rd very much. You were lucky b####, you had a bit of everything with the weather and some good moments on a sunny Sunday.

I'm sad reading the crowd cheered when Webber got past Alonso, surely they cheered when Alonso got past Hamilton?

If Hamilton goes to some other team then Webber might go to McLaren. All the 2013 grid debate depends on 2 names, Hamilton and Schumacher.

Don't be sad Alex; It had little to do with Alonso being beaten. It was more to do with the crowd just loving a clash between two heavyweights.

Yes, the crowd cheered when Alonso went past Lewis too. That includes me.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Yes, the crowd cheered when Alonso went past Lewis too. That includes me.

Don't lie...

I thought u would get pics of me men first!!! Kimi and Vettel.... did u manage to take pics of em? All else is slightly unimportant

[Quiet One 15]

Hey Steve! Where were you? You missed t he British Gp you moron!

Well, I am sure it must have been one hell of an experience. As for your comments, yeah, I guess I jinxed Schumi! Must be said, though, that this time it was obvious that he did everything right. No stupid battles, lots of good ones and he seems to be onsistently (that's the word for this season) starting ahead. Yet his races always end in shambles. Seriosuly, if not for the Lucozade thingie, you could not tell a Macca and a Merc. They both suck on race day.

BTW, I could have sworn I saw you there, until someone pointed at me that he was Sid Watkins

RE Maldonado: I can only say one thing in his defense now. He made it to Silverstone yesterday in a tractor (source: interview for Fox Sports )

[AleHop 0]

I thought u would get pics of me men first!!! Kimi and Vettel.... did u manage to take pics of em?

He didn't waste film with secondary characters.

[JHS18 0]

Another day, another lack of anything warranting a mention for STR (with the exception of when Vergne does something dumb).

I fully supported and support the move to get rid of Buemi and Alguersuari. Why? Because it's not a normal team. A normal team, I'd keep those two, but a team that exists to try to develop talent for the big club, while Buemi and Alguersuari were steady, they didn't have much potential to ever be a lot more than they were, whereas on paper, Ricciardo and Vergne had limitless potential (and both had given reasons to believe they'd be good...though if you want my opinion, Esteban Guerrieri was better than Daniel Ricciardo).

My point is, STR, for the function it serves, it made more sense to say "well, Buemi and Alguersuari would be good number twos for Vettel, but we don't need that right now, so let's try to make our next champion."

But these two are taking us back to the days of Liuzzi and Speed, and I realize the team has had some issues with money and all. I've always figured STR was in it for the short-term because when it comes to driver development, Red Bull bails early and often, and cancels programs as a whole (like the American driver search...after they got Speed to F1, they decided there was nothing left to do here, even though the initial goal had been an American World Champion...but Red Bull never sincerely tried for that goal, having chosen Speed in the first place despite him not being anywhere close to the most impressive driver in their testing days...he was just "what they wanted" to make a story out of, developing some guy into a champion, rather than taking a guy who needed less development...but then they never developed Speed at all and just rushed him through and his lack of talent and poor attitude just made a real mess...here I go again, you're probably saying, and so am I ).

But I think that future will get even shorter-term. No one in the system is close to F1; Carlos Sainz, Jr. is in the F3 EuroSeries, Mitch Evans is in GP3...both would be a few years off. And if these guys don't pan out, what's left for Red Bull?

I guess it's not exactly a "2012 British Grand Prix" specific thought, but I can't imagine STR's got much left if these guys don't give us a result to restore faith in them.

I'm not sure I agree.

Give them time. We're not even half way through this year yet. Ricciardo only had a few races in a HRT last year, and Vergne didn't have any proper F1 experience at all. Think it is a bit harsh to be calling them out when you think about that.

STR had Buemi and Alguersuari for what? Three years or so. Okay, they got better over time...but there was no real stand out performance that made you think they were the next big thing. Vettel managed it at Monza and a few other places where he showed strongly and therefore earnt the promotion. There wasn't anything even close to that kind of thing from Buemi/Alguersuari. But Vettel only started to become good in his second year...

Saying that, I do think it is incredibly tough for rookies to make an impact these days and follow in the footsteps of the likes of Hamilton, Vettel or even Kubica. Yes, Hamilton did have a brilliant debut - but equally the likes of him and Vettel/Kubica had way more testing time than any of the current rookies coming into the sport, whether from driving consistently on a Friday, or getting testing mileage in the winter. They were properly prepared when they made their race debut so it made them look like brilliant drivers straight away.

Also, I think the expecation in STR these days is ridiculously high. Vettel was the exception in the Red Bull junior programme - and now he's won two titles the expecation within Red Bull is that the current drivers HAVE to be as good as that otherwise they lose their ride, which is not only unrealistic, but is really unfair in a way.

Alguersuari and Buemi got three years. I think it is only fair that Ricciardo and Vergne are given the same time before a judgement is made on them. Plus there's no-one else in the Red Bull junior programme that is near ready. Carlos Sainz Jr is the only one I can think of who is doing British F3 this year. Plus when you compare how Vergne comprehensively dominanted British F3 in his championship winning year and Sainz isn't, that he really isn't a better bet.

[Massa 0]

I get what you're saying...I don't disagree with it fully. It was more from STR's perspective than my own, a prediction that they will use poor performance as an excuse for Red Bull to cut themselves out from STR, as they've been trying to do for a while, and for Red Bull to disband young driver development altogether, which they've been moving toward for years. They're not going to fund three more years to not get their next ace from it, and they haven't been given reasons to believe Ricciardo and Vergne are exceptional talents in Formula One. The guys who do brilliantly in their first years are exceptions. But so are World Champions. If these guys are being normal, that's fine from a normal perspective, but from a team pouring money into developing future stars, that's not really worth the investment. For a mid-pack, take what you can get team independent of future long-term plans, normal is fine, but all the money Red Bull spends to get nothing...six points is a good reason to pack it up and call it a day.

Also, Steve: awesome you were so close. Glad you had a good time there.