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Lewis Hamilton

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Ppl don't give a Sh#t about "branding association" except on a very tenuous sense. The same sense that makes me think of red haired, frecklish people when I hear the name "Ruben" just because the first Ruben I knew was like that, despite the fact that no other Ruben I knew was even red haired.

Tell me, do you feel the thrill of extreme sports every time you see a Red Bull can? Do you wanna taste it and feel like lifting a finger to the cameras?

I have my savings in a Citibank account. Citibank has been the symbol of quick and dirty businesses and aggressive takeovers during the ultra liberal neocon 90s which is taboo by my slightly left of centre views. Santander sponsors my favorite driver and they are EVERYWHERE. There's even a Santander branch less than two blocks away from my work which is mightly convenient. Yet I haven't switched my savings over tto Santander and probably never will. Why? Because I don't give a damn about Alonso's sponsorship and Santander's ultra winning image to be bothered enough as to go and spent a couple of hours switching bank accounts.

it might even be convenient from my point of view because I would get better offers or something like that...I DON'T CARE!

I LOVE Coca Cola. But their "brand image" is appalling at best and their commercials are usually boring and "family oriented". Pepsi is more about things a single guy can relate to: success, flirting, whatever.

I still drink Coca Cola because Pepsi tastes like licking a wet dog. (Not that I tried...much)

Marketing is good to make a brand known. But all the overanalyzing on whether some commercial or slogan will make you think that certain brand has those characteristis is only for the fun and profit of the marketing depts and marketting companies involveed. Everybody else goes for the actual product and the very little else.

(Awaits for Brad's fuming reply smile.png)

You're not wrong, but while you aren't swayed by marketing, that doesn't mean others aren't. No one outright thinks "I am attracted to this product because of this image," true. But plenty of people make associations they don't realize they are making, and while most associations can easily be overridden with common sense, they're still being made. Associations don't always lead to decisions, and that's their flaw.

Of course, I'm not telling McLaren's prospective partners how to market. Just stating how they are marketing, and I'm not even saying that's successful or good. But they are going for image. No one needs to be told Vodafone and Santander exist; we all know. Their marketing may be useless or a waste of money, and they can evaluate that, but they are trying to establish an image, and post-Hamilton McLaren's image is both less confusing and less susceptible to unpleasant perception. So, when DPR suggests they might not be as attractive to sponsors, I don't necessarily agree, because sponsors, rightfully or wrongfully, are trying to sell an image, and there's an image there to be sold, even if it is one that many won't buy, and one that conflicts with F1's core identity.

Massa, Please be very careful...........we are almost stepping into the "emperor's new clothes" here!

Remove the glamour, the danger and the sexiness..........and we are left with "cars going around a track"

Why does F1 have such a global following ?.........not for the the WCC that's for sure.

The ONLY constructor that has passionate fans is Ferrari, and that's because they're seen as SEXY.

I work for Shell and once asked a very senior bod, why the Ferrari partnership? His answer - SEX SELLS, to paraphrase him ' when we're trying to seal a deal, it's nice to send a Kasak official to Marinello, where he'll be met by a beautiful pr assistant wearing a tight skirt, showing him the famous cars.

Take the sex out of F1 and you're left with a boring engineering weekend! I for one would go back to the porn channel!

I was just saying, there's a way you can sell that to people, whether it's good or bad. Are those people the die-hard, old school F1 fans? No. But they do exist and they have money, too. A lot of bland people have even more money than exciting ones, so there's that, too (and plenty of exciting people have more money than bland ones). Just outlining what is, not what should be, or what I think is working. Because I don't know what should be or what I think is working. I have too many biases, and my biases think cars on a track is always exciting as long as the cars are differentiated and the track tests some kind of limit of something either on the car or the driver. My biases are also those of an introverted (INFJ, for the record, rarest personality type in males), vaguely-asexual, never-had-a-drink-of-alcohol, risk-avoiding accounting student, so my biases are excruciatingly dull. :P

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Massa, your transition to the DULL side is now complete. As a reward you can have a McLaren super-duper car (and then try and convince your neighbors that its just as sexy as a Ferrari). Your membership of the Jenson fan club comes with a complimentary bottle of shampoo. Please try and refrain from using any form of smiley in the forum from now on, or Mr Whitmarsh will insist your new company car is grey. Oh, and please do not drive above the 55mph (just like the rest of the McLaren staff next year - including Jens and Perez!)

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That all sounds wonderful. Eh. Wonderful's a strong word. Might conjure emotion using something like that. I'll be more careful next time, Martin, I promise!

(Ah, crap, an exclamation mark...that's not supposed to be there...)

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Marketing is good to make a brand known. But all the overanalyzing on whether some commercial or slogan will make you think that certain brand has those characteristis is only for the fun and profit of the marketing depts and marketting companies involveed. Everybody else goes for the actual product and the very little else.

(Awaits for Brad's fuming reply smile.png)

As u say... marketing is good to create and change perceptions, and if they are succesful it helps pushing up the profits........

unfortunately you've figured that out and you're just to clever to fall for it laugh.png

Edited by BradSpeedMan

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As u say... marketing is good to create and change perceptions, and if they are succesful it helps pushing up the profits........

unfortunately you've figured that out and you're just to clever to fall for it laugh.png

Ok, ok I get it...no need to get personal and certainly no need to threats or shout and...

Wait...

Hey, you are not mad? That's it! This is no longer a sport! I am leaving for good and stop using fire to cook my meals.

FFS!

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A stupid personal observation (as if I ever write anything else on here...), Santander branches had Jenson all over anyways :D

And away from stupid, I agree with Eric, and actually I'd love to know exactly how much the obvious form of marketing can sway me in my choices. I guess that not much for now, because I'm poor, but I'm sure it works on some level. Even so I don't think McLaren will go far by turning into the dullest team in F1 history, maybe they should check twice xD They will need some kind of talk about them, and being good never attracts any!

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Lewis writes off 2013; targets 2014.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103174

Now Schumi's retirement makes even more sense. When you're not a spring chicken, it's very difficult to commit yourself to a team a few years more till achieving success. In an article in today's Times of India, Schumi wrote he hopes the foundation he & Ross laid for Mercedes will come good in time.

Well, that pretty much settles it for me. No more wishing ill for Mercedes.

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So Hamilton is at it again on Twitter, first having a go at Button for supposedly unfollowing him and following Perez, saying he's been disrespectful. Then he realizes, which really was someone telling him since he has an IQ of 1 and never seems to think before he opens his mouth, that Button had never followed him on Twitter ever.

I can't wait for McLaren to be free of this cancer. I've never seen a more self entitled prat in my life than the one and only Lewis Hamilton. He seems to be someone who is influeneced, and not one who influences. There are many news tidbits around that Lauda convinced Hamilton to ditch McLaren and head to Mercedes. We see him doing all kinds of stupid things both at present and over the years, and none of them at all seem cool.

There is also apparently a big situation occuring where Hamilton is now taking a closer look at this years car, potentially trying to gleam as much information as possible. Button has said Hamilton is frozen out of all meetings and anything to do with next years car. But right now, McLaren need to have Ron in charge. Witmarsh is too much of a nice guy. He seems to lack a backbone at times and I doubt has ever reprimanded Hamilton on anything. Honestly, I think they should forget about this years WCC, because Hamilton cannot be trusted, and replace him immediately. Add to all this, the notion that Hamilton apparently thinks the door is still open at McLaren for him to return some day.

I predict Hamilton will bomb in the Mercedes. He has no mental toughness and flips out over the smallest things. If he's complaining now, while being in one of this years fastest cars, how is he going to be come 2014 when Merc still are a 5-6th place team. Setting your sights low isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it's crunch time for Merc. If they don't start winning in the next 2 years, I very much suspect we'll see Lauda chopping people out. Who knows that might even include Brawn. Having Lauda there IMHO is a big big mistake.

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So Hamilton is at it again on Twitter, first having a go at Button for supposedly unfollowing him and following Perez, saying he's been disrespectful. Then he realizes, which really was someone telling him since he has an IQ of 1 and never seems to think before he opens his mouth, that Button had never followed him on Twitter ever.

I can't wait for McLaren to be free of this cancer. I've never seen a more self entitled prat in my life than the one and only Lewis Hamilton. He seems to be someone who is influeneced, and not one who influences. There are many news tidbits around that Lauda convinced Hamilton to ditch McLaren and head to Mercedes. We see him doing all kinds of stupid things both at present and over the years, and none of them at all seem cool.

There is also apparently a big situation occuring where Hamilton is now taking a closer look at this years car, potentially trying to gleam as much information as possible. Button has said Hamilton is frozen out of all meetings and anything to do with next years car. But right now, McLaren need to have Ron in charge. Witmarsh is too much of a nice guy. He seems to lack a backbone at times and I doubt has ever reprimanded Hamilton on anything. Honestly, I think they should forget about this years WCC, because Hamilton cannot be trusted, and replace him immediately. Add to all this, the notion that Hamilton apparently thinks the door is still open at McLaren for him to return some day.

I predict Hamilton will bomb in the Mercedes. He has no mental toughness and flips out over the smallest things. If he's complaining now, while being in one of this years fastest cars, how is he going to be come 2014 when Merc still are a 5-6th place team. Setting your sights low isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it's crunch time for Merc. If they don't start winning in the next 2 years, I very much suspect we'll see Lauda chopping people out. Who knows that might even include Brawn. Having Lauda there IMHO is a big big mistake.

The only thing that matters (and which you have not alluded to once) is that Hamilton will go fast and deliver what is the maximum achievable in the car. Your spurious and opinionated nonsense has no bearing on that.

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Lewis writes off 2013; targets 2014.

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/103174

Now Schumi's retirement makes even more sense. When you're not a spring chicken, it's very difficult to commit yourself to a team a few years more till achieving success. In an article in today's Times of India, Schumi wrote he hopes the foundation he & Ross laid for Mercedes will come good in time.

Well, that pretty much settles it for me. No more wishing ill for Mercedes.

I wish I could remember where and when I saw it, but Lewis was interviewed earlier this year (and it may have even been the back end of last year) where he mentioned the fact that winning races and championships was not the be all and end all. I remember thinking that it gave a hint of a mindset that showed he was ready to play the long game in his career and not get beaten up through disappointment. Singapore was a brilliant demonstration of that. He was dissapointed but fully accepted that car failure is a part of the sport.

It is only because it took so long for his decision to move to Mercedes that people want to get bogged dwon in the deterioration of relations between him and McLaren. That sells newspapers but I feel it only tells half the story. There is nothing wrong with jumping ship for a new challenge, however crazy it may seem to some. The difference between Hamilton's move and Schumacher's to Ferrari is that we perceive it to be riddled with regrets, arguments and fall outs. But it actually just amounts to the same thing; they want a new challenge with the benefit of some credibilityalready behind them. Hamilton may or may not be difficult to manage, but it matters not one jot. His speed and determination are the imporrtant things here. Everything else is bi-weekly forum fodder.

Drivers move to other teams. It's not a big deal.

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Great drivers have great egos. It's just a fact that they like to feel loved, needed, wanted, adored etc. McLaren has/is/will never be that type of team. All eras of driver/team domination have been as a result of (on top of everything else) massive ego massaging. Think Ferrari/schumi - RBR/vettell. I think he'll love the gratitude that awaits him at Merc. If it's a sticky year in '13 everyone will say that Merc need to up their game, if it goes well everyone will say that Hammy is the best thing since me. Either way he'll still get a skip load of cash. It's a win-win deal for Lewis. I really don't know why anyone doubted this move.

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I wish I could remember where and when I saw it, but Lewis was interviewed earlier this year (and it may have even been the back end of last year) where he mentioned the fact that winning races and championships was not the be all and end all. I remember thinking that it gave a hint of a mindset that showed he was ready to play the long game in his career and not get beaten up through disappointment. Singapore was a brilliant demonstration of that. He was dissapointed but fully accepted that car failure is a part of the sport.

It is only because it took so long for his decision to move to Mercedes that people want to get bogged dwon in the deterioration of relations between him and McLaren. That sells newspapers but I feel it only tells half the story. There is nothing wrong with jumping ship for a new challenge, however crazy it may seem to some. The difference between Hamilton's move and Schumacher's to Ferrari is that we perceive it to be riddled with regrets, arguments and fall outs. But it actually just amounts to the same thing; they want a new challenge with the benefit of some credibilityalready behind them. Hamilton may or may not be difficult to manage, but it matters not one jot. His speed and determination are the imporrtant things here. Everything else is bi-weekly forum fodder.

Drivers move to other teams. It's not a big deal.

Of course, you are right. However, I don't believe, new challenge or not that you step out of a car with proven, current race win pedigree into to one that has spent three years struggling in the midfield, whether pundits believe it has potential or not. Unfortunately, Hamilton's relationship at Woking has deteriorated alarmingly and his position is probably now untenable although, according to Whitmarsh, he can return at any time. He has certainly p**sed off the rank and file in the garage and there will be those at Mercedes who will welcome him with some caution but as you say, drivers leave teams all the time - sometimes successfully, sometimes disastrously. I wonder which this will turn out to be.

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Great drivers have great egos. It's just a fact that they like to feel loved, needed, wanted, adored etc. McLaren has/is/will never be that type of team. All eras of driver/team domination have been as a result of (on top of everything else) massive ego massaging. Think Ferrari/schumi - RBR/vettell. I think he'll love the gratitude that awaits him at Merc. If it's a sticky year in '13 everyone will say that Merc need to up their game, if it goes well everyone will say that Hammy is the best thing since me. Either way he'll still get a skip load of cash. It's a win-win deal for Lewis. I really don't know why anyone doubted this move.

Easy to say, with hindsight, but I agree with everything else.

Of course, you are right. However, I don't believe, new challenge or not that you step out of a car with proven, current race win pedigree into to one that has spent three years struggling in the midfield, whether pundits believe it has potential or not. Unfortunately, Hamilton's relationship at Woking has deteriorated alarmingly and his position is probably now untenable although, according to Whitmarsh, he can return at any time. He has certainly p**sed off the rank and file in the garage and there will be those at Mercedes who will welcome him with some caution but as you say, drivers leave teams all the time - sometimes successfully, sometimes disastrously. I wonder which this will turn out to be.

Based on the current respective form of the McLaren and the Mercedes, it would appear the move is unwise. But then the same could have been said of Schumacher's move to Ferrari. The difference here is that (as things stand and this will be an important one to watch) Lewis is not bringing McLaren talent with him. Michael brought over the dream team with devastating effect. To this end, it strenghtens your argument (if I understand it correctly) that he may have been forced to move due to the relationship at McLaren.

Having said all of that, I have no idea amongst the 'rank and file' you believe Lewis has 'p**sed off'. That, kind sir, is hearsay (unless you can prove otherwise).

To this end, I still maintain that it maybe as clear cut as Lewis wanting a change. That is no bad thing at all.

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The only thing that matters (and which you have not alluded to once) is that Hamilton will go fast and deliver what is the maximum achievable in the car. Your spurious and opinionated nonsense has no bearing on that.

Neither does your lazy lackadaisical reply. You know that old saying, opinions are like assh0les, everyone's got one. The only difference is I don't sit on a soapbox and claim mine is elevated or superior. I look forward to debate on subjects and topics. So I can only conclude you have nothing of value to say, or couldn't be bothered to say it. Both equate to being equal. Thus why even bother to post a reply, accept maybe to stroke ones own ego.

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Neither does your lazy lackadaisical reply. You know that old saying, opinions are like assh0les, everyone's got one. The only difference is I don't sit on a soapbox and claim mine is elevated or superior. I look forward to debate on subjects and topics. So I can only conclude you have nothing of value to say, or couldn't be bothered to say it. Both equate to being equal. Thus why even bother to post a reply, accept maybe to stroke ones own ego.

Lackadaisical? I prefer 'economical'; If you removed your subjective personal feelings about Hamilton, you may have posted with a similar number of words. I may even look forward to debate with you. As things stand, I believe my observation about what Hamilton is most likely to represent for Mercedes is more credible than your offerings. It makes for quicker reading too.

Edited by dribbler

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Lewis will bring (or claim to bring smile.png ) a half-second or more to the car, face an unprecedented challenge from his team-mate,throw a hissy fit midway thru the season, then go running back to the team that made him laugh.png

Edited by brambilla

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Ahh if this is about how we imagine Lewis future at Merc then my own version is:

He will go there, try to play the patience game building the team and such. Either the team moves forwards or not he will lose his patience somewhere halfway down the road and become interested in something else (unless the car turns out to be a serious title contender and soon). Things will go downhill from there between him and the team.

Then he will probably leave F1 to do something else (movies? a reality show?), bitter thinking how he was never allowed to achieve his Senna dreams in Formula One...without even realize how much more all us F1 fans that didn't like him have respected him so much more for taking the risk at Mercedes.

I have this weird feeling always with him that all his arrogance and spoilt kid numbers are merely the mask of a deeply insecure but hugely talented boy. That boy is one of the best drivers of all time. The guy he tries so hard to be is Daily Mirror's fodder.

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Ahh if this is about how we imagine Lewis future at Merc then my own version is:

He will go there, try to play the patience game building the team and such. Either the team moves forwards or not he will lose his patience somewhere halfway down the road and become interested in something else (unless the car turns out to be a serious title contender and soon). Things will go downhill from there between him and the team.

Then he will probably leave F1 to do something else (movies? a reality show?), bitter thinking how he was never allowed to achieve his Senna dreams in Formula One...without even realize how much more all us F1 fans that didn't like him have respected him so much more for taking the risk at Mercedes.

Man, you're just jealous that he's black, handsome and rich... and has a pussygirl/doll to play with...

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I think he is insecure too. I've always thought that he tries way too hard to please people, and plays up to what people/the media want him to be rather than what he is (sometimes good, often bad). He always seemed less at ease than Button or Alonso or even young Vettel.

Anyway, the move will either be the making or breaking of him. If he leaves F1 with only a single title to his name, it will be a great shame in relation to his ability level. But what he achieves also depends on his development as a person and focus as a driver, as much as what Mercedes can deliver. Next year will tell us a lot about both of those things. What I want to see is the super competitive, focussed, 2007 spec Lewis Hamilton again, who used to run up the stairs to the podium after beating Alonso to show how he wasn't tired. I don't want to see him doing endless PR crap and making cameos in music videos. If you want to achieve like Senna, focus like Senna. Moving to Mercedes is either an attempt to "quietly" build a team up with utter determination and hard work like Schumi did, and as Lewis claims, or a way of XIX shamelessly increasing his global appeal (and I don't think you can do both). If he ends up attempting the latter then nobody will have any sympathy for him if he fails.

Also completely agree: the move is far too over analysed. He moved teams. I've yet to see any proof that he's a pariah at Mclaren by the management or by the team in general. Nobody openly criticised him and he was in the strong position during negotiations; this is not the sign of a driver being forced out or a complete breakdown in relations. They even said he could come back sometime, right? What actually happened is that the relationship is not as close, and more importantly, the relationship doesn't appear to be going in the right direction, in terms of the goals or happiness of both parties. This was not a dumping by either party, this was a parting of ways with each party knowing that in the short term they will gain some amount of peace, but probably lose a significant amount of performance too.

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Man, you're just jealous that he's black, handsome and rich... and has a pussygirl/doll to play with...

:lol:

BTW, I always forget the impact it has because he is black. I must ask you: is he really that important as a symbol? This with all respect. For me, saying that he is black is like saying that Rosberg is blonde. I recognize that it's both a good and a bad sign. Good, in the non-racist sense. Bad, in the sense that I don't see him being too much of a paradigm for black culture.

This will probably sound worse than I intend to but I don't know how to express it too well.

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laugh.png

BTW, I always forget the impact it has because he is black. I must ask you: is he really that important as a symbol? This with all respect. For me, saying that he is black is like saying that Rosberg is blonde. I recognize that it's both a good and a bad sign. Good, in the non-racist sense. Bad, in the sense that I don't see him being too much of a paradigm for black culture.

This will probably sound worse than I intend to but I don't know how to express it too well.

To be honest, it does'nt really matter to me. What I do believe is that he is a prodigious talent, and it's good to have for F1 as a coloured person. I've seen B&W ppl over here supporting him, while I'm shouting for Kimi at the next table, but to many coloured folk here that is very important and is the primary reason why they follow him...

This comes from a guy who still listens to Elvis and is probably still his most ardent fanlaugh.png ...

Actually, tbh, I'm at the moment listening to his gospel music, the music I grew up with....

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laugh.png

BTW, I always forget the impact it has because he is black. I must ask you: is he really that important as a symbol? This with all respect. For me, saying that he is black is like saying that Rosberg is blonde. I recognize that it's both a good and a bad sign. Good, in the non-racist sense. Bad, in the sense that I don't see him being too much of a paradigm for black culture.

This will probably sound worse than I intend to but I don't know how to express it too well.

So racist. Eric, ban him.

Oh, and I agree.

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Easy to say, with hindsight, but I agree with everything else.

Based on the current respective form of the McLaren and the Mercedes, it would appear the move is unwise. But then the same could have been said of Schumacher's move to Ferrari. The difference here is that (as things stand and this will be an important one to watch) Lewis is not bringing McLaren talent with him. Michael brought over the dream team with devastating effect. To this end, it strenghtens your argument (if I understand it correctly) that he may have been forced to move due to the relationship at McLaren.

Having said all of that, I have no idea amongst the 'rank and file' you believe Lewis has 'p**sed off'. That, kind sir, is hearsay (unless you can prove otherwise).

To this end, I still maintain that it maybe as clear cut as Lewis wanting a change. That is no bad thing at all.

Mechanics and engineers are the heart of any team and they tend to get nasty over antics like drivers tweeting telemetry and taking a unnaturally keen interest in technical matters when they are about to leave the team.

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In the last couple of weeks, McLaren have had a big launch party in Paris for their latest re-launch of their superduper car. They have also apparently announced a signing of a a new driver. - Yet still Lewis (who put the twit in twitter) Hamilton's tweets have claimed more column inches and forum fodder than anything else coming out of Mclaren ! FFS mr Whitmash, put Lewis on garden leave for the rest of his contract, before any more technical issues scupper his chances.

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