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LabradoRacer

بعض الكلمات العشوائية باللغة العربية لكنك تعلم ما أنا في اشارة الى، أليس كذلك؟

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These are the races Vettel needs if he has the ability to shake his "not a great racer" label.

He's going to start from the pit-lane, they'll change gear ratios, suspension, etc.

I doubt he'll be able to shake the "not a great racer" label tomorrow. Sorry.

:eekout:

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Vettel does deserve the punishment, harsh as it may seem. But he'll fight his way through the field. Starting from the pitlane is a wise move. I expect him to finish in the top 5. A mature, solid, damage-limitation drive.

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I sympathize with some of your views. FIA's rulings (and FIA's rules as well) are usually either obscure or ambiguous. So much secretiveness doesn't help, either.

On the other hand, it is also true that I find it extremely difficult to find a simpler, more lenient penalty system in a sport like this. There aren't many variables you can modifiy in a driver's race that won't make a huge impact in his race. Even the smallest of the grid penalties can have a huge impact over a single race. This is no football!

As for the black and white, I've been following the posts on other forums: Autosport, Technical F1 and PF1 (and it was really amusing reading some preposterous theories and so much contradiction abound!) . Among the more illuminated posters, though, there were good arguments on how this could have had many different outcomes even in the case of underfueling. Had it been a fuel pump problem, for example, it would have probably not meant an automatic P24 for RBR and perhaps not even deserving of a penalty at all.

The basic theory behind underfueling=DSQ is for blatant cheating. And underfueling a car in Qualy is actually the most blatant and stupid way of cheating a qualy session. There are many atenuating circumstances (force majeure being ambiguous enough to allow for many excuses). But it seems in this case, as it was the case with Hamilton, either the excuses presented were not good enough, or there was the feeling that RBR was being 'economical with the truth' in McLaren's words.

Anyways, as you said, it would be a great deal better at least for us F1 fanatics to know more about what was behind each of these decisions. But I think that is something not only FIA would not be happy about, but neither would the teams involved.

Finally, re Vettel not being 'a great racer'...well, somebody has grown too attached to the little Imp, methinks tongue.png As of now, I don't think any serious F1 analyst would contest the fact that Vettel is not up there fighting for a 3rd championship merely because Newey carries him on his shoulders. The question on whether he is as great as the likes of Alonso is a matter of discussion on finer lines than the broad brushing of 'either Vettel is a great racer or he is completely useless'. That's fanboy talk.

His superiority over Webber either on track and outside it asserting himself as number one, his perfection every time it is required, his hard working ethics are all out of discussion I think by now. That's not something you find in any driver by any means. His ability to deliver when not in a mighty Newey supercar is his main achilles heel when it comes to perception but again what could he do? Go to Merc with Lewis? He is young and perhaps one day he will have a less formidable car to ride for a whole season, and as happened with Alonso, he might earn a lot more respect from friends and foes than he earned in his glory days (as it happened with Alonso as well)

I don't sympathise with anything in this post, you are a terrible person and I hope Eric bans you. Good points all round!

As for the 'great racer' comment, I was just being economical with words, for once laugh.png

http://www.motorspor...bastian-vettel/

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I don't sympathise with anything in this post, you are a terrible person and I hope Eric bans you. Good points all round!

As for the 'great racer' comment, I was just being economical with words, for once laugh.png

http://www.motorspor...bastian-vettel/

:lol:

Well, if we learned something from Scuhmi (and, to some extent, from Button's) performance this year is that 'dominant wins from pole to finish' might earn you lots of records as long as the car can deliver, and lots of short term credit, but once the show is over and you arewalking home how much can you remember about these races? How many 'comandeering races from the front' can you remember from the Schumi King of the Hill days?A Nando fan like myself has trouble recalling a single interesting race in 2005/2006 among those when his car was the very best. The numbers are there for gloating rights, but when it comes to actual memories, I recall the hard fought Imola races, not his win at the French GP of 2005.

Totally off topic (except it is about Nando, and nothing about Nando is OT for me :P) So far only Alonso and Glock have not been penalised this year. :D

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"One of the best ski jumpers of all times once said 'Every chance is an opportunity and as far as we are concerned there are still plenty of chances tomorrow'," said Vettel after finding out about the penalty."

Thats it my boy, now go prove those doubters wrong!!!!!!

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Yes, they are stupid if they actually under-fuelled the car by accident or intention (and they are simply making stories up), but if in this case it's actually not a question of them playing with the margins, then they have not been stupid at all, have they? In any case, stupidity should not be mistaken for malice and should not have such a (potential) affect on the championship.

Y-e-s.... but then they they could have put a bit more fuel in so they didn't put themselves in this position.

Rules are quite clear:

6.6 Fuel draining and sampling

6.6.1 Competitors must provide a means of removing all fuel from the car.

6.6.2 Competitors must ensure that a one litre sample of fuel may be taken from the car at any time during the Event.

Except in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the stewards of the meeting), if a sample of fuel is required after a practice session the car concerned must have first been driven back to the pits under its own power.

6.6.3 All cars must be fitted with a -2 'Symetrics' male fitting in order to facilitate fuel sampling. If an electric pump on board the car cannot be used to remove the fuel an externally connected one may be used provided it is evident that a representative fuel sample is being taken. If an external pump is used it must be possible to connect the FIA sampling hose to it and any hose between the car and pump must be -3 in diameter and not exceed 2m in length. Details of the fuel sampling hose may be found in the Appendix to these regulations.

6.6.4 The sampling procedure must not necessitate starting the engine or the removal of bodywork (other than the cover over any refuelling connector).

Rules is rules and they designed the car, know how much fuel would be in it and what was expected of them. Seems a bit rich to say "s'not fair guv!"

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Y-e-s.... but then they they could have put a bit more fuel in so they didn't put themselves in this position.

Rules are quite clear:

6.6 Fuel draining and sampling

6.6.1 Competitors must provide a means of removing all fuel from the car.

6.6.2 Competitors must ensure that a one litre sample of fuel may be taken from the car at any time during the Event.

Except in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the stewards of the meeting), if a sample of fuel is required after a practice session the car concerned must have first been driven back to the pits under its own power.

6.6.3 All cars must be fitted with a -2 'Symetrics' male fitting in order to facilitate fuel sampling. If an electric pump on board the car cannot be used to remove the fuel an externally connected one may be used provided it is evident that a representative fuel sample is being taken. If an external pump is used it must be possible to connect the FIA sampling hose to it and any hose between the car and pump must be -3 in diameter and not exceed 2m in length. Details of the fuel sampling hose may be found in the Appendix to these regulations.

6.6.4 The sampling procedure must not necessitate starting the engine or the removal of bodywork (other than the cover over any refuelling connector).

Rules is rules and they designed the car, know how much fuel would be in it and what was expected of them. Seems a bit rich to say "s'not fair guv!"

http://thejudge13.com/2012/11/04/why-red-bull-volunteer-for-extra-start-penalty/

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Rules is rules and they designed the car, know how much fuel would be in it and what was expected of them. Seems a bit rich to say "s'not fair guv!"

Don't be cruel. Reading RBR about the problem it could be a serious one.

RBR: "Fuel should be there"

A metaphysical problem can be really hard to solve. I have experience(s) with them every day. :D

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If the 'fuel is there, it is just that is out of reach excuse' was what they actually said to stewards, then it's not surprising that the guys sent them to the back of the grid.

Like McLaren at Spain, the excuse rings so empty and lame you would think that teams could at least call some lawyer and some mechanic, knowing they will be summoned to have something better to day.

Geez, they could have as well said "fuel? there is plenty more than one liter! It's just underneath the car, as any perforation under the car will prove!" (Excuse valid only in the Emirates and Venezuela" :P

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They'll have Austin (Texas) to try that excuse this season. Please, please... tongue.png

Good thinking! You should work for RBR, you know? :P

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The best part of this race will probably be when Vettel catches up with the first HRT:

"Hello, my name is Narain Karthikeyan. You called me 'Cucumber'. Prepare to die."

carrot.gif

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Or more accurate to the original...

"Hello, my name is Pedro de la Rosa, you called my teammate "cucumber", prepare to die" :P

I have a bad felling about this race, I hope I don't have to switch off after the first couple of laps to switch on a few minutes later with Alonso already in the boxes.

:(

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I have a bad felling about this race, I hope I don't have to switch off after the first couple of laps to switch on a few minutes later with Alonso already in the boxes.

sad.png

Well, I wasn't expecting a big upset in the championship, anyways. Still it made for some drama in a race that seems poised to be utterly boring otherwise.

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Aaaaand,,,Vettel manage to collect a track signal while under SC. I guess that might give George a hint on why the jury is still out about him being a 'great racer' :P

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Vettel radio: tell that idiot of Ricciardo that he has to move over!!! Is he not working for The Team?

RBR radio: Seb, you're under Safety Car procedure!!!

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Brad, I will even let you quote me on this:

I'd rather see Kimi win this one than Alonso! (But no other :P)

Go Kmi! Go Poochie!

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