Melbourne Practice, Qualy And Stuff Like That

[pabloh20 1]

That's the biggest load of utter tosh I've found in my life! And I didn't even read it!!

Oh, ok, let me read it. Mmmmh...mmmh....uhuh...wait that's...oh, I see...

Errm...ok, somebody could say that you gave me a though dialectical beating. With some minor misconstructions and misunderstandings here and there but obvious in these debates.

Except you didn't.

Ok, I didn't want to do this before but you gave me no other choice.

I play the Pope card.

See? I can't be wrong now! Let me make a phone call. "Francis? Yup, it's me...there's this guy George....yup, bad person, probably an abortionist or something. Yeah, he is harrassing me. Please, send me a couple of your biggest, sturdiest bishops. Thanks, mate!"

I am not sure you should say 'I play the pope card' in any walk of life or in any conversation

With regards to Massa's 2nd stop (I am referring to some of your earlier posts too), I didn't hear what was said on the radio, aside from Smedley saying see what you can do in clear air, but the strategy was neither one thing or another, unfortunately. As George said, you could see what was going to happen once Alonso took the stop first. I am not calling team order foul or anything, or that Alonso shouldn't pit first, etc, but it was obvious what was going to happen to Massa once he did. I don't know the state of Massa' tyres, but he either should have come in next lap after Alonso, or stayed out longer than he did. It was halfway house that did nothing, unfortunately. His only option, realistically, was staying out to see if he could get a reasonable pace out of his tyres and then hope that he had fresher rubber near the end of the race that he could use to his advantage. The thing is, it's easy to see how it looks to people who want to believe in such things.

[Massa 0]

I think the bigger issue with Massa was what happened after the second pit stop. He closed back up to Vettel, and at one point was within DRS range. He dropped off, and then pitted before Alonso did. Pitting when he did didn't cost him a podium. Something with that set of tires and how he managed them did. The pass was there for him to make, but they (Massa and his tires) couldn't sustain Vettel's pace long enough to do that. I'd guess he was pushing hard to close back to Vettel and used his tires up, in the same way that Alonso made his third set last long, but dropped off of Räikkönen's pace on the fourth.

That's not a criticism of Massa or anything, because how much of it is driver, how much of it is car, and how much of it is what his team tells him to do...I'm just not there. For whatever reason, the third stint cost him the podium, not the pit stop preceding it.

It was still a good race for him. Let us not forget the time last year, or at other points in his career, when we'd be thrilled to see him just finish 8th or 9th.

[pabloh20 1]

I think the bigger issue with Massa was what happened after the second pit stop. He closed back up to Vettel, and at one point was within DRS range. He dropped off, and then pitted before Alonso did. Pitting when he did didn't cost him a podium. Something with that set of tires and how he managed them did. The pass was there for him to make, but they (Massa and his tires) couldn't sustain Vettel's pace long enough to do that. I'd guess he was pushing hard to close back to Vettel and used his tires up, in the same way that Alonso made his third set last long, but dropped off of Räikkönen's pace on the fourth.

That's not a criticism of Massa or anything, because how much of it is driver, how much of it is car, and how much of it is what his team tells him to do...I'm just not there. For whatever reason, the third stint cost him the podium, not the pit stop preceding it.

It was still a good race for him. Let us not forget the time last year, or at other points in his career, when we'd be thrilled to see him just finish 8th or 9th.

Well, if he could have stayed out longer before making his 2nd pit stop, again this only works if you can keep the pace up like Kimi did for example, then he would have been on fresher rubber and might have still had some life left in them when he got back up to Vettel. Again, a lot of ifs, buts and maybes, however I just think the 2nd pit stop timing was just not one thing or another and didn't give Massa a chance to try anything really.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Sorry my inner 7 year old had to come out....

Let him out man, let him out!!!!

[Massa 0]

Well, if he could have stayed out longer before making his 2nd pit stop, again this only works if you can keep the pace up like Kimi did for example, then he would have been on fresher rubber and might have still had some life left in them when he got back up to Vettel. Again, a lot of ifs, buts and maybes, however I just think the 2nd pit stop timing was just not one thing or another and didn't give Massa a chance to try anything really.

That's fair, too. I just assume Ferrari saw his lap times and realized that staying out longer would only do more damage. Maybe someone who had live timing open at the time can remember. I'm sure Ferrari would still put him on the optimal strategy for the sake of the WCC, and if it were so optimal he came out ahead of Alonso, they'd address that directly if they felt it were important. That's all a load of assumptions, of course, and my assumptions are worth no more than anyone else's. If he had turned competitive lap times in P1, they'd have committed more in one direction...

...or so I say, until someone tells me he was the quickest car on the track at that point.

[Quiet One 15]

That's fair, too. I just assume Ferrari saw his lap times and realized that staying out longer would only do more damage. Maybe someone who had live timing open at the time can remember. I'm sure Ferrari would still put him on the optimal strategy for the sake of the WCC, and if it were so optimal he came out ahead of Alonso, they'd address that directly if they felt it were important. That's all a load of assumptions, of course, and my assumptions are worth no more than anyone else's. If he had turned competitive lap times in P1, they'd have committed more in one direction...

...or so I say, until someone tells me he was the quickest car on the track at that point.

He was good the whole weekend (well, except when he crashed in the wet, but you can't have Massa without crashing in the wet). What he obviously was not was "better than Alonso", or he would have been furter up, safe from Alonso's undercut move. As for the strategy, it only seems awful now (and because we define "awful" as in "good enough for a P4"). HIs strategy was the obvious one once Alonso took his pitstop. Making the same move a lap later would have been too late to put him back in front of Alonso.

Besides, strategic gambles like the one Alonso did usually are decided or at least heavily discussed over the radio with the driver, Massa relies too much on Smedley (as the communication showed) and is hard from the pistop to asess the risk of such manouevres without input from the driver.

As a journalist with is no fan of ALonso admitted, that kind of strategic discussions with the pit are ones made by a Button or an Alonso, not a Massa.

[Massa 0]

I was thinking relative to Vettel, not to Alonso, though.

Paul's point, I think, was that if Massa could have stayed out longer, he'd have had fresher tires at the end, and might have been able to pass Vettel before the finish.

My assumption is that Massa was losing more time staying out than he could have hoped to have made up at the end, so they brought him in.

Whatever the case, they did what they did, a guy who could have been third finished fourth instead. It will not go down as the biggest loss in this season, I don't think.

[Quiet One 15]

I was thinking relative to Vettel, not to Alonso, though.

Paul's point, I think, was that if Massa could have stayed out longer, he'd have had fresher tires at the end, and might have been able to pass Vettel before the finish.

My assumption is that Massa was losing more time staying out than he could have hoped to have made up at the end, so they brought him in.

Whatever the case, they did what they did, a guy who could have been third finished fourth instead. It will not go down as the biggest loss in this season, I don't think.

Oh, I see. Well, I think it was a case of overestimating Vettel and underestimating Massa. Frankly, I also thought at the moment that he would not be able to take Vettel. And considering the recent performance history of noth, it is not such an unforgivable mistake

[dribbler 6]

Regarding Ferrari's tactics it was clear that the target was to finish ahead of SV. That was clear from Alonso's reactions after the race.

The joker in the pack was Sutil holding them all up just at the right time with their tyres fading as soon as they caught up to him. When Fernando pitted, it was a gamble to leapfrog the pack while the others were wasting their time queueing in the Force India's dirty air. It would have made sense for Ferrari to split their strategy just in case anything happened to negatively impact that gamble, which is what they did with Massa. Leaving him out to put pressure on Red Bull to make a definitive call for Vettel. Which worked because RB were in essence napping and allowed Ferrari to make their move first.

Ferrari began focusing on Kimi only at the end of the 3rd stint, once it was clear that they had Vettel behind Fernando, but by then it was already begining to be too late to challenge for victory, as was evident towards the final 8 or so laps.

So, in a way, I'd guess it was not really about internal warfare between Fernando and Felipe, but more of trying to keep Vettel in check and taking all contingencies to that effect, even if it may hamper their no. 2 driver.

This.

There were no team orders.

[mikathegreat2 2]

Bit late but WOOOOOOP!!!!!! GO KIMI!!!!!! :D

[apexhead 0]

Hope you chaps don't mind adding my GP Review...There's also a podcast available here.

2013 F1 Australian Grand Prix Review

This is what a new season is all about it, isn't it? We never know what to expect and the season opener, Round 1 at Melbourne was a sterling example as to why, as Kimi Raikonnen won for the 2nd time in his career at Albert Park, marking his 20th career win overall.

Many question lingered coming into the season - would Lewis Hamilton get on with his new team at Mercedes? What about Sergio Perez with McLaren? Would Sebastian Vettel continue his dominance for a forth season in a row? How would the new rookies shake out with their new teams? It's far too early to answer any of them with certainty, but at least we have an idea.

Lost on those aformentioned prominent musings though was the question was how Adrian Sutil, returning to Force India after a one year hiatus, would handle his action in a car since the end of 2011. Remember, he was not added to the team until about four weeks ago, as rumors of who would fill Force India's second seat lingered all offseason. The result of course was Sutil finishing a solid 7th but for a considerable stretch of the race, he looked to have a legitimate shot to win, given the team's gutsy 2-stop strategy.

Biggest Winners

Kimi Raikkonnen - Not just because he won the race but because let's face it, no one saw Kimi getting this kind of result in Round 1. Lotus' 2-stopping tire strategy paid off and it's clear the E21 is performing closer to what it seemed to flirting with last year. Remember, the 2012 E20 car seemed to have more struggles in cold weather, so such a strong start in more cool conditions bodes well for the car's performance. Meanwhile Kimi's teammate Romain Grojean finished a more predictable s 10th after qualifying 8th. But to have Grojean finish the race and stay out of trouble was a positive for the team and Lotus have something to build on.

Felipe Massa/Ferrari - A 2nd place finish for Alonso, even from starting 5th, is to be expected from the 2 time world champion. But where Ferrari really surprised was the pace and performance from Felipe Massa, who not only out-qualified his teammate, but finished a strong 4th. If this is the pace to expect from Ferrari moving forward, then the gauntlet has been thrown down for Red Bull for the Constructors title.

Force India - Despite Sutil leading a portion of the race and competing for a podium spot, it's surprising he only finished one position ahead of his teammate Paul Di Resta, who finished 8th. Double points is nothing to sneeze at , so Force India could play the same role of the 2012 Sauber team, which routinely finished in the lower top 10. Still, the team has to be concerned with how far the performance fell off when running on the super-soft tire compounds. Malaysia should shed more honest light on the subject.

Honorable mention:

• Lewis Hamilton. Granted, 5th was perhaps less than what Lewis would have wanted, but it was certainly a decent result for Mercedes who struggled to finish that high most of last year. Given how poorly McLaren showed, there is no question Lewis is not second-guessing his decision to join Mercedes.
  
• Also, Sauber rookie driver Esteban Gutierrez has to be happy. He lead all rookies in finishing 13th, which helped salvage an otherwise tough weekend for Sauber, who saw their 11th spot start by Nico Hulkenburg go to waste due to a fuel problem that kept him from participating As long as Sauber doesn't have reliability problems, they should continue to compete in the 2nd tier market
  
• Marussia. Not only did the rookie duo do well for the team, they finished an impressive 15th (Jules Bianchi) and 17th (Max Chilton), moving up 3-5 spots each from their starting spots. It's much too early to tell, but Marussia could have the making of a team to be flirting with the mid-teens race in and race out.
  

Biggest Losers

McLaren - When a team mentions the possibility of going back the prior year's car design, you know there are problems. Qualifying told us that the turnover at McClaren - not just with the Lewis/Perez switch, but also within the team - has caught up with them, contrasting what has been strong results for the last 4-5 years. Jenson Button was only to climb one spot from this starting 10th and ending 9th, while newcomer Sergio Perez was able to make better of his atrocious P15 start and finish 11th.

Still, it's clear McLaren has massive work to do to compete with the other big boys and the UK outfit could be setting up for a long campaign. Jenson Button's concerns about how long it will take to get competitive are quite valid indeed.

Mark Webber - Another fantastic qualifying performance from Webber squandered by yet another horrific start. Until Webber is able to eliminate this deficiency is his race results, a good grid spot will amount to little. Fortunately for Mark, he was able to finish 6th after it appeared he might only manage 8th or worse.

Pastor Maldonado - Williams made good strides last year with Pastor able to get his first career win, as well as run high on a number of occasions. The results may have been even better if Pastor had been able to finish a couple races without incident, most namely Melbourne and Valencia. However, Pastor's miserable weekend came to an appropriate halt when his wheels came off the tarmac heading into Turn 1 and off into the grass he went. Pastor described the car as "undriveable" after a poor qualifying session, but this error feel squarely on his shoulders.

What made things worse for Pastor was the fact that his rookie teammate, Valtteri Bottas, was able to finish a decent 14th after starting 16th. Maldonado needs to show that his flashes of brilliance last year were not just in fact, flashes in the pan.

Honorable mention: Romain Grojean. Yes, he finished the race and got a point. But ultimately, he fell two spots from his starting grid position. The E21 is clearly very good on the harder tires, so hopefully the young Frenchman will find his pace heading into Round 2.

Biggest Surprise

It has to be Sutil and frankly, the pace of the Force India car as a whole. Paul di Resta is a good young driver and combined with Sutil, the team has to be very excited heading into Malaysia.

Not So Surprising...

The unreliability of the Mercedes. Last year Michael Schumacher saw plenty of good drives go to waste from problems with the car and Nico's exit at Melbourne tells us that it's possibly still a problem. Mercedes is lucky that this happened with Nico and not Lewis, as it could have posed as a rocky start for the new tandem.

What to Look for in Round 2

• What is the true pace of both Sauber and Force India? Both teams will be trying to claw over one another all the way to the end.
  
• Is Lotus really here to play, or did they simply exploit the unknowns of a new season?
  
• Will Red Bull get its tire wear woes sorted out before Malaysia?
  
• Will McLaren be able to make any improvements at all in just a week's time?
  
• Are Ferrari as prepared to battle for the Contructor's title as they appear?
  

[pabloh20 1]

Seems Webber's start has been mentioned a few times in this thread -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21853491

Not sure how much bearing it has, but presumably if McLaren have apologised, they must consider it enough of an issue to apologise.

Now, if they can only manage to do this en masse for every car in front of them on the grid.....................

[Kati 0]

ok what about the other 30 starts where Mark sucked?

[Quiet One 15]

ok what about the other 30 starts where Mark sucked?

Those? Not ECU, but SNAFU.

[pabloh20 1]

ok what about the other 30 starts where Mark sucked?

I could only find an explanation for one..................