radical-one

So When Will Pirelli Bring Better Tires ?

217 posts in this topic

Just get ready for only 3 cars to even try and qualify in Q3 and the other to just sit in the garage. They get 3 sets of each of the dry tyres for saturday and sunday. The teams will burn 1 set in Q1 and another in Q2. THat means they will be left with 4 sets for Q3 and the race. As a strategist I would rather starts 10th with 4 sets and do 4 stops having to run one stints on tyres from Q2 and Q1 than try and quali 1st and run 4 stops with 2 of my 5 stints being on old tyres. Not only that, I can start on Fresh rubber and don't have to use a worn set until the end of the race.

Though with the fact that Montreal is famous for being horrible on tyres I predict 4 drivers in total will have to retire because they just run out of rubber. With punctures and debri flying around like it usually does I would not be surprised to have a front runner have a slow puncture and have to pull into the pit and just park it because they don't have tyres left to race on.

The one thing nobody has really mentioned is that 90% of the problems with the tyres can be fixed by just giving the teams more of them. give them 2 sets each on Saturday and they give them 6 new sets on Sunday and scrap the rule about starting on quali tyres. Not only would you see WAY more running on Saturday, teams might actually have their guys push and try for a 6 stopper instead of driving slower than my grandma on a Sunday drive just to make it to the finish.

BUt I think as soon as a team has to retire a driver from a race because they physically ran out of tyres Pirreli and the FIA will change their tune faster that Lucky Luke can shoot.

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All good points.

You missed another however - the rule that states ALL tyres have to be changed - you can't just replace a front left or rear right for instance, but all four must come off, even if two of them could do another 20-laps...

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Wasn't there talk of allowing the teams who get through to quali 3 to have an extra set of tyres? Did that happen or did I dream it? That would surely help, but I think you're right F1 FANatic.

I just hope we don't get to a point where we get a repeat of that race in Indianapolis when only six cars raced.

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Wasn't there talk of allowing the teams who get through to quali 3 to have an extra set of tyres? Did that happen or did I dream it? That would surely help, but I think you're right F1 FANatic.

I just hope we don't get to a point where we get a repeat of that race in Indianapolis when only six cars raced.

only to be used in practise I think...

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Last time I came around, the propaganda news roll on the front page was packed with screams about the absolute need to replace the tires asap. Consequently, the most psychologically vulnerable posters were littering the forum with hysterical calls to action. Lives were in danger! F1 was doomed!

Today, hardly a word.

I have no idea why the 180 degree change but, based on experience, one can only assume the last podium was "acceptable".

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Last time I came around, the propaganda news roll on the front page was packed with screams about the absolute need to replace the tires asap. Consequently, the most psychologically vulnerable posters were littering the forum with hysterical calls to action. Lives were in danger! F1 was doomed!

Today, hardly a word.

I have no idea why the 180 degree change but, based on experience, one can only assume the last podium was "acceptable".

Rogue heroes Mercedes, morally opposed to unjust regulation, have peacefully protested through a potentially unlawful tire test. The world is captivated by the fearless example they have set in their courageous ability to break rules they do not like. Why call for FIA action when we can count on Mercedes to represent the will of the people? ;)

I'm not sure opinion has changed as much as people aren't going to repeat themselves.

I still stand by my opinion that F1 has never been more exciting, but that the style of racing in Monaco was also welcome for a change of pace. Certainly, though, I want those changes of pace to come from different circuit types, not from week-to-week changes of regulation. I, for one, will be disappointed if Pirelli is run off, or if Pirelli changes the tires, for reasons that include the product, which I (being this forum's LCD) enjoy a lot, and for reasons that include the integrity of the championship, which I really do think would be compromised by "bringing better tires." At the end of the day, the best cars aren't being punished, because the best cars must be the best cars under the given rules. The ones that cannot manage the tires are playing in fantasy land. Perhaps next weekend, Red Bull can bring the world's fastest NASCAR vehicle, and then indicate that the FIA needs to go oval racing so that the best cars aren't punished.

Oh, well. I can't be too outraged. When you come to terms with the fact that the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix is still recognized as an official Formula One race, and that the win is included in these statistical comparisons of Alonso to Mansell or anyone else (not a knock on Alonso, who wasn't "in the know," apparently), you have to become somewhat immune to any controversy in F1. It's hard to demand integrity when a fixed race stands as one that counted toward the championship, especially when, if you totally wipe that race out, the champion is still Hamilton, so it would not have even been controversial to do that. They allowed blatant cheating (but will give a team a lifetime ban for failing to pay FIA their fees, as they did with US F1 and Luxury Racing of the sports car world), and we want to make sure they have consistent tires for a whole season? :lol:

I still love F1, and still come here to gush about how great every race is, but there are times when I do wonder if I've just become too immune to the real issues out there. It's all relative, in my outlook, and silliness in F1 isn't going to be as damaging as silliness outside of F1. However, am I setting the standard too low for F1 when I say, "you know, the FIA is the greatest race sanctioning body, when you compare it to the backwards stuff going on in NASCAR and IndyCar, or the meddling Balance of Performance by IMSA or the ACO?" Probably. Just because it's better doesn't mean it's acceptable.

I don't like to get down on it. If I get down on it, I won't watch, because F1's something I do for fun. Still, as more time passes, I am more frustrated by this whole situation. I guess I just assumed it might blow over by now. Apparently not.

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Look at you all grown up.

Jokes aside, yes, it's a mess. I can't speak of race results because I gave up a while back, first on the championship, and then on the races themselves. F1 is still my preferred "four wheel" motor racing event (can't really call it a sport, can we) but the situation is beyond the pale.

Anyhow, no worries. Time will bring things around. Ecclestone's contraption will eventually collapse.. and would've already save for the complicity of the press (two British champions' worth) that, as you say, can declare a total emergency one week and then "move on" out of boredom convenience the next.

Don't let the script get you down, though. I'm sure that when racing is allowed, it is still worth watching.

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...and now Merc is saying to Pirelli: "Well, here's another fine mess you've gotten us into!"

Merc to face FIA tribunal over pre Monaco test. Ferrari acquited.

Sources are many don't be lazy and look for them yourselves.

Things don't look too bright for Merc right now althoug, if they are found guilty, I don't think the punishment will match the crime. Basically, because if they are found to have gained an advantage by testing with current cars the only way to level up the field again is either erasing all the Merc employees and drivers memories (possible, if the Men in Black lend them their flashlight gizmo), giving everybody else free tests (less possible than the gizmo stuff), or kicking them out at least for this season. And that could prove extremely costly.

Mostly, because they will have to give a written notification to each one of the team authorities which by the latest account are about 2,543,022 people. That's a lot of money in stamps.

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Curiousity:

Say Merc gets punished by the tribunal, and Pirelli chooses to not use the compounds/tyre construction they were testing at any stage in any given season, will Merc, in all actuality, be serving punishment for a crime they did not commit?

In a way, maybe the RB may have shot themselves in the foot, because what they may have inadvertantly done is provide incentive for the tyres that they seem to hate to continue being used for the rest of the season. Pirelli, after all, is under no contractual obligation to change the compounds. My 2 cents

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Look at you all grown up.

Jokes aside, yes, it's a mess. I can't speak of race results because I gave up a while back, first on the championship, and then on the races themselves. F1 is still my preferred "four wheel" motor racing event (can't really call it a sport, can we) but the situation is beyond the pale.

Anyhow, no worries. Time will bring things around. Ecclestone's contraption will eventually collapse.. and would've already save for the complicity of the press (two British champions' worth) that, as you say, can declare a total emergency one week and then "move on" out of boredom convenience the next.

Don't let the script get you down, though. I'm sure that when racing is allowed, it is still worth watching.

You must be the most depressing person I know...

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Say Merc gets punished by the tribunal, and Pirelli chooses to not use the compounds/tyre construction they were testing at any stage in any given season, will Merc, in all actuality, be serving punishment for a crime they did not commit?

Well, that would be like saying "Yes, I used to sell illegal drugs but as I actually lost money doing so, I didn't commit a crime"

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Apparently Mercedes 'welcome chance to respond to tyre test claims'. Part of the article is -

Mercedes say they discussed the test with the FIA beforehand and believed they had been given permission to use a current car.

If any of that statement is true, it raises a few queries. If nothing else, it sounds like the FIA knew about the test, at the very least.

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I find it quite hard to believe the FIA didn't know about the test beforehand, to be honest. If they did, will they punish themselves? ;)

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I find it quite hard to believe the FIA didn't know about the test beforehand, to be honest. If they did, will they punish themselves? wink.png

No, Mr Moseley no longer works there, remember and all ze whips haff gone! :D

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I find it quite hard to believe the FIA didn't know about the test beforehand, to be honest. If they did, will they punish themselves? wink.png

They did know, what is not clear is to what extent. I guess the whole process will center on exactly what FIA thought would happen and what Merc/Pirelli understood they were authorized to do.

In any case, I find it extremely peculiar that FIA authorizes these tests but they have no personal sent there to supervise that its done within the regulations. I know is not the central point, but certainly something to reconsider in the future.

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Well, that would be like saying "Yes, I used to sell illegal drugs but as I actually lost money doing so, I didn't commit a crime"

No. It would be like I used to sell illegal drugs, but then I found out it was cornflour all along, so I didn't commit a crime, did I?

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No. It would be like I used to sell illegal drugs, but then I found out it was cornflour all along, so I didn't commit a crime, did I?

That would not correlate that much to your previous post. From what I understood, you meant that if there was no actual advantage, then the punishment would make no sense. My point was that if they are found guilty of breaking the rules, the question of whether they benefited from such breach or not becomes irrelevant. If you can't benefit from a crime that doesn't makesyou innocent, merely makes you an incompetent criminal :D

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Just to be clear: I have no idea if they actually breached the rules or not but, if they did, then those reasonings would be appliable, IMHO.

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Fair point.

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They did know, what is not clear is to what extent. I guess the whole process will center on exactly what FIA thought would happen and what Merc/Pirelli understood they were authorized to do.

In any case, I find it extremely peculiar that FIA authorizes these tests but they have no personal sent there to supervise that its done within the regulations. I know is not the central point, but certainly something to reconsider in the future.

Well if they did know, why did they act or pretend like they knew nothing about it? That's the bit that confuses me. As soon as the other teams started to kick up a fuss, they could have just said they knew about it, so it wasn't a secret test. I agree that they might not have known exactly what went on in the test, but they could have at least quashed the 'secret test' claims.

Yes, indeed. Otherwise, it seems that they are either trusting the teams' honesty when participating in these tests, which doesn't seem the greatest idea considering previous events. Or they are relying on the non-participating teams to find out what happens in the tests, I am not sure if this is a good idea or not :lol:

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Well if they did know, why did they act or pretend like they knew nothing about it? That's the bit that confuses me. As soon as the other teams started to kick up a fuss, they could have just said they knew about it, so it wasn't a secret test. I agree that they might not have known exactly what went on in the test, but they could have at least quashed the 'secret test' claims.

Really? I think that the secrecy is a minor point, albeit one that probably irritates the other teams a lot. There are lot of rumours and claims and blah blah around the net about this, but from what I read, thy tried to make it as secret as possible. They didn't make it secret with regards to the FIA, that's what you mean? Well, that depends on what exactly they told they would do and what they actually did. That is precisely what is under scrutiny. So, they teams obviously didn't know (hence the secrecy claims), and the FIA either knew and is lying, or was lied to by Merc/Pirelli.

We will see in due time, I guess.

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No. It would be like I used to sell illegal drugs, but then I found out it was cornflour custard powder all along, so I didn't commit a crime, did I?

Corrected for accuracy :D

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Really? I think that the secrecy is a minor point, albeit one that probably irritates the other teams a lot. There are lot of rumours and claims and blah blah around the net about this, but from what I read, thy tried to make it as secret as possible. They didn't make it secret with regards to the FIA, that's what you mean? Well, that depends on what exactly they told they would do and what they actually did. That is precisely what is under scrutiny. So, they teams obviously didn't know (hence the secrecy claims), and the FIA either knew and is lying, or was lied to by Merc/Pirelli.

We will see in due time, I guess.

Well, it's a minor point with regards to the legality of what went on in the test, I agree. However, in the respect of teams crying foul and saying it was a secret test, so it cannot have been above board, then the FIA could have easily said the test was not secret and that they knew about it. It has no relation to the legality of the test, I know, but it still confuses the hell out of me why the FIA never just come right out and tell the teams what information they already know.

It does sound like all Pirelli tests are kept quiet, however, I think the Ferrari test was further evidence of that. I don't think any of the other teams knew about that one either. Makes you wonder how many other tests we have not heard about over the past few years :lol:

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It does sound like all Pirelli tests are kept quiet, however, I think the Ferrari test was further evidence of that. I don't think any of the other teams knew about that one either. Makes you wonder how many other tests we have not heard about over the past few years laugh.png

Actually, that was what your previous post got me thinking about!

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Actually, that was what your previous post got me thinking about!

Indeed. With RBR crying foul so loudly, makes you wonder if they have done tyre tests with the current season's car in the past, which is why they are complaining about Merc, you know your own tricks best and all that.

Or is that just the cynic in me?? :lol:

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