Spanish Grand Prix

[pabloh20 1]

The Mercs were going slowly probably to avoid chewing up the tyres.

It didn't work

[pabloh20 1]

Actually, they WERE really slow, Merc asked them to bunch up the whole field so as not to have their cars stationary in the grid for too long.

I love how he ends up most of his rants with a "Do something!"

Yep, they were deliberately going slow as I think they get the heat into their tyres quicker, so cooling everybody else's tyres is an advantage for them. Well, for a few corners until they wear the tyres out, at least

I do think the drivers need reminding, though, that they are meant to stay within a few car lengths of the driver in front on the warm up lap, they are gradually getting more strung out over the past couple of seasons and the pole sitters are stationary for quite some time. Not that it bothered Merc in the last race, it was the only time they didn't drop positions

[pabloh20 1]

I don't really think the problem lies with the tyres. It's just that due to circumstances in the past (due to amounts of testing etc.) teams were better equipped to design and build a car around a certain group of regulation and standardised equipment.

If data about the tyres was fully quantified and a car was designed to best perform with that as one of several specific design criteria, then we would have a different scenario.

The elephant in the room I think is that the cars racing this year are all losely based upon the designs that surfaced in 2009 and then adapted over the seasons to suit the regulations and the teams failed to recognise that for this year the tyre would dictate the design direction and a fresh design was needed. One that would be kinder to the tyres and not subject it to as much stress as with devices like blown diffusers (please, hot blown diffusers are still the keyword for the whole rear region). Several telling reasons, I assert, is that Newey has mentioned his designs are evolutions of the RB5 and secondly the initial reaction of many team bosses crying foul after Australia that the "design language" of the Lotus (which was the Pirelli test car) gave them an unfair advantage.

Teams did a bad job at interpreting the conditions for this year. They were happy to just merely modify their designs instead of think of new ways to exploit the short life of the tyres.

Now when the drivers mentioned going 80% of full pace all the time, It is just a reflection of a failure to adapt to changing situations. And anyway, call it what you want but drivers never drove at 100% for full race distances during modern F1 races, Exceptions of course were when Schumi had to do 40 quali laps in which race I forget and I haven't checked this up but I believe Webber did it in Monaco 2006 I think. If drivers actually drove their cars to the limit, race fastest laps should be at least 2 seconds off Quali lap time.

Blaming the tyres is like blaming the rain. Everybody has to undergo the same conditions, and those that are brave in making a call and doing something different, even if it goes wrong, at least will have the satisfaction of knowing that they took the reins of their fate in their hand and at least did something instead of crying about it.

I don't think anybody minds drivers not driving at 100% for the whole of the race, but 100% for some of the race should be happening. In the last race, I think they were also a tad cautious in qualifying so as not to burn out tyres, which shouldn't really be the case.

When we had refuelling, in the modern era, I think the drivers used to be hitting near 100% capacity for good chunks of the race because they used to split the race into 2 or 3 sprints.

As I said earlier, I think it's indicative of how much the drivers are driving within themselves that we have had no safety car this season.

[F1 FANatic 1]

I don't think anybody minds drivers not driving at 100% for the whole of the race, but 100% for some of the race should be happening. In the last race, I think they were also a tad cautious in qualifying so as not to burn out tyres, which shouldn't really be the case.

When we had refuelling, in the modern era, I think the drivers used to be hitting near 100% capacity for good chunks of the race because they used to split the race into 2 or 3 sprints.

As I said earlier, I think it's indicative of how much the drivers are driving within themselves that we have had no safety car this season.

I think it has more to do with the fact that they can't drive anywhere near as aggressive as they should be able to.

Half the field on Sunday was driving slower lap times than the GP2 race. Can you imagine, if the F1 and GP2 cars had been racing Le Mans style it would have been like having half the LMP1 cars beaten by the GT1 class. That is absurd.

[Massa 0]

Half the field on Sunday was driving slower lap times than the GP2 race. Can you imagine, if the F1 and GP2 cars had been racing Le Mans style it would have been like having half the LMP1 cars beaten by the GT1 class. That is absurd.

That's not really analogous, though, because the LMP and GT cars are in the same race. GP2 runs a shorter race than F1, so the fuel load is presumably a lot less. At which point in the Grand Prix were the lap times slower than GP2? If toward the end, so be it. If toward the beginning, how much of that is fuel load? I would guess, and I may be wrong as I haven't seen the data, that at the beginning of any Grand Prix, the cars are in GP2 range because of the fuel. That isn't to say tires didn't play a role and make it more extreme.

I enjoyed the race, personally, and am seemingly alone there. However, I will be happy if Pirelli can meet their goal of 2-3 stops per dry race instead of 3-4. I think the 2-3 stop races have been the best. Moreover, I still recall races (like Hockenheim) where the tires played no role whatsoever, and all the top teams were still super close, so there are still good things going on to underline the tires. I also recall races where (like Austin) where the compounds were medium/hard that were still very exciting, and that was back when the hard compound was harder. So, I'm not against Pirelli revisions, but I'm also not going to take my favorite racing series in the world and throw it under the bus because one race wasn't exactly a thriller. They'll tweak and continue to offer what I choose to enjoy.

[Quiet One 15]

That's not really analogous, though, because the LMP and GT cars are in the same race. GP2 runs a shorter race than F1, so the fuel load is presumably a lot less. At which point in the Grand Prix were the lap times slower than GP2? If toward the end, so be it. If toward the beginning, how much of that is fuel load? I would guess, and I may be wrong as I haven't seen the data, that at the beginning of any Grand Prix, the cars are in GP2 range because of the fuel. That isn't to say tires didn't play a role and make it more extreme.

I enjoyed the race, personally, and am seemingly alone there. However, I will be happy if Pirelli can meet their goal of 2-3 stops per dry race instead of 3-4. I think the 2-3 stop races have been the best. Moreover, I still recall races (like Hockenheim) where the tires played no role whatsoever, and all the top teams were still super close, so there are still good things going on to underline the tires. I also recall races where (like Austin) where the compounds were medium/hard that were still very exciting, and that was back when the hard compound was harder. So, I'm not against Pirelli revisions, but I'm also not going to take my favorite racing series in the world and throw it under the bus because one race wasn't exactly a thriller. They'll tweak and continue to offer what I choose to enjoy.

This.

[jackgarrett 0]

Looking forward to a good race after a fraught general election.

Can Red Bull consolidate their lead?sort of

Can Ferrari hit the ground running?yes

Will Fernando cry on the podium?no

Can Mercedes avoid tyre wear issues?no

Can Lotus supply Kimi with enough ice-cream?no

Can McLaren inherit some Red Bull performance now that they supply alternators to RBR?no

Will Button moan?no

Will Perez find a middle ground between his very digital display of aggression?no

Can both Force Indias stay on track for at least the first 10 laps without being punted?yes

Can Sauber get noticed on camera?yes

Can Vergne get a clean race?no

Can Ricciardo find himself in a situation where it isn't possible to smile?no

Can Williams stop being forgotten mid-race?yes

Can Bianchi have a race where he is not performing brilliantly?no

Can Max Chilton get a good hair day?yes

Can Caterham run faster laps than the medical car?yes

I await answers for these with much anticipation

[jackgarrett 0]

I wanted to see someone really suffer on old tyers at the end of a race and someone catching on new tyers 6 seconds a lap faster!

[HandyNZL 1]

I think it has more to do with the fact that they can't drive anywhere near as aggressive as they should be able to.

Half the field on Sunday was driving slower lap times than the GP2 race. Can you imagine, if the F1 and GP2 cars had been racing Le Mans style it would have been like having half the LMP1 cars beaten by the GT1 class. That is absurd.

That's not really analogous, though, because the LMP and GT cars are in the same race. GP2 runs a shorter race than F1, so the fuel load is presumably a lot less. At which point in the Grand Prix were the lap times slower than GP2? If toward the end, so be it. If toward the beginning, how much of that is fuel load? I would guess, and I may be wrong as I haven't seen the data, that at the beginning of any Grand Prix, the cars are in GP2 range because of the fuel. That isn't to say tires didn't play a role and make it more extreme.

I enjoyed the race, personally, and am seemingly alone there. However, I will be happy if Pirelli can meet their goal of 2-3 stops per dry race instead of 3-4. I think the 2-3 stop races have been the best. Moreover, I still recall races (like Hockenheim) where the tires played no role whatsoever, and all the top teams were still super close, so there are still good things going on to underline the tires. I also recall races where (like Austin) where the compounds were medium/hard that were still very exciting, and that was back when the hard compound was harder. So, I'm not against Pirelli revisions, but I'm also not going to take my favorite racing series in the world and throw it under the bus because one race wasn't exactly a thriller. They'll tweak and continue to offer what I choose to enjoy.

Eric is right - it's not the tyres, but the distance, that is the real difference between F1 and GP2, as are the levels of downforce between F1 and GP2...the tyres last longer in GP2 as there is less load on them, and then they don't have to make as many corners.

It's like comparing apples and oranges. Both fruits, both reasonably spherical in shape, but entirely different otherwise.